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Why is Alysane Mormont with Stannis?


Elaena Targaryen

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Yes it was; by the time Stannis arrived in the North, they were all dead. By the time they joined Stannis, I'd guess weeks or months had passed since he fought against Mance's "army" at the Wall.

hmm, yeah, it seems pretty convenient joining the only 'king' left alive.

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The closest thing we've seen to a skin changer among the Mormonts was been Jeor with his raven. It's my thought that the Mormonts have a certain latent ability similar to that of the Starks. I think it's a good point that if any were wargs, they'd travel with their chosen animal in tow, a la Jeor. One of the younger members of the house may yet discover an ability that they haven't yet realized though, but I would be shocked if Jorah in particular or even Maege suddenly became a skinchanger so late in life. I like the idea of Tormund fathering one of Alysanne's childeren while she was a bear though, very amusing. I hope though, that if it's true, at least the "member" chewing part isn't.

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I am hardly a Stannis supporter, and I find this very feasible.

Didn't Stannis tell Cat that Robb would be free to call himself whatever he wanted. He could keep the title "king" so long as he did fealty to Stannis? (or was that Renly?)

I think she its there to evaluate Stannis and determine if he is someone the north can negotiate with. Restoring WF to the Starks would go a long way to winning the North's support. If he proves worthy, she may have more than just her own family to offer.

The issue is independence, not title. Robb summoned the Northern bannermen and declared independence for freedom from the Iron Throne. If the so-called "King in the North" must swear fealty to the Iron Throne - meaning subjection to taxes, conscription, laws, etc. - he is not a true sovereign. The North wants to govern itself, not to merely restore the historical "King in the North" title. The Martells in Dorne already call themselves "princes" and "princesses," despite fealty to the Iron Throne, so Stannis' concession is not only meaningless but also misses the point.

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The closest thing we've seen to a skin changer among the Mormonts was been Jeor with his raven. It's my thought that the Mormonts have a certain latent ability similar to that of the Starks. I think it's a good point that if any were wargs, they'd travel with their chosen animal in tow, a la Jeor. One of the younger members of the house may yet discover an ability that they haven't yet realized though, but I would be shocked if Jorah in particular or even Maege suddenly became a skinchanger so late in life. I like the idea of Tormund fathering one of Alysanne's childeren while she was a bear though, very amusing. I hope though, that if it's true, at least the "member" chewing part isn't.

Well, the theory is that Mormont's raven was "warged" by Bloodraven, not Jeor himself. Though that doesn't eliminate the possibility that other Mormonts are wargs - don't they have the same old blood (First Men, was it?) as the Starks?

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Well, the theory is that Mormont's raven was "warged" by Bloodraven, not Jeor himself. Though that doesn't eliminate the possibility that other Mormonts are wargs - don't they have the same old blood (First Men, was it?) as the Starks?

I don't thing that all the Mormonts are Wargs (nothing tells me that Ser Jorah was one, but maybe it's a part of his life that he never talks about), but it would make sense if Alysane is one, and is in cahoots with Bloodraven or Bran (or both), since a warg recognizes another. She could have seen Bran in the Weirwood Tree. But what's her agenda?

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The issue is independence, not title. Robb summoned the Northern bannermen and declared independence for freedom from the Iron Throne. If the so-called "King in the North" must swear fealty to the Iron Throne - meaning subjection to taxes, conscription, laws, etc. - he is not a true sovereign. The North wants to govern itself, not to merely restore the historical "King in the North" title. The Martells in Dorne already call themselves "princes" and "princesses," despite fealty to the Iron Throne, so Stannis' concession is not only meaningless but also misses the point.

It wasn't Robb that declared independence. He called the banners to avenge his father. It was his bannermen who crowned him King of the North. And of those who shouted his coronation, there are very few still alive.

Those that survive might be willing to negotiate with Stannis. I agree that many of the Northern Lords still want an independent Kingdom, but I think that they may be willing to compromise.

I'm either case, determining what kind of man Stannis is, as either ally or liege, would require someone to travel with him and eventually negotiate with him.

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It wasn't Robb that declared independence. He called the banners to avenge his father. It was his bannermen who crowned him King of the North. And of those who shouted his coronation, there are very few still alive.

Those that survive might be willing to negotiate with Stannis. I agree that many of the Northern Lords still want an independent Kingdom, but I think that they may be willing to compromise.

I'm either case, determining what kind of man Stannis is, as either ally or liege, would require someone to travel with him and eventually negotiate with him.

Yeah, people were saying in this thread that the very idea that the North might side with Stannis is just a delusion conjured up by Stannis supporters. A little ironic, because I think the very idea of a King in the North - right now, specifically - is a terrible one, one conjured up by Robb/Jon supporters. Until the Others are defeated, specifically. The Iron Throne is seriously the most useless, centralized, rebellion-prone thing in the world, but if it's an armed invasion of weird undead monsters, you don't want to be an independent kingdom that has to fight them all by yourself.

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The Iron Throne is seriously the most useless, centralized, rebellion-prone thing in the world, but if it's an armed invasion of weird undead monsters, you don't want to be an independent kingdom that has to fight them all by yourself.

Zombies ruin everything!!!! :angry2:

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I think the North will side with Stannis because of the chaos of House Stark. Stannis will die fighting the Others and that will let the North have a King again.

That's definitely possible. It's also not impossible Stannis is already dead and Ramsey wasn't lying in his letter to Jon, though he might of been mistaken about the totality of his victory.

Manderly is a bit of a wildcard here. He's definately against Bolton, but that doesn't mean he's for Stannis. It's certainly possible that he has no intention of siding with Stannis and seeks to make the Starks Kings in the North once again whether Stannis wants to or not. Remember the debt House Manderly owes is to House Stark and House Stark alone, not to some southern lord.

My guess is he'll eventually declare for whoever was named in Robb's will (likely Jon), probably along with Greywater Watch. With the two of the most important and most untouched areas of the North on one side, the rest of the Northern lords will fall in line.

If Stannis is still alive and willing to treat them as allies, then they'll aide him in battle. If he still treats them as subjects, then he's going to have a serious problem on his hands.

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I believe in the past the Mormonts were probably Wargs, but I don't know if I believe any of them are in the present. A warg and it's beast, are inseparable, and we haven't seen any of the Mormants with a bear, or any animal for that matter. Jorah, the Old bear, Maege, Dacey, Alysane....we have "met" all these characters, and none of them had/have an animal that travels with them every where they go, or anywhere they go for that matter. I agree maybe one of the Mormants we have not "met" yet, is a Warg.

As for the argument, that maybe they just didn't take their beasts with them???

I would say that, Robb took Grey Wind with him south. Jon took Ghost with him , into the Haunted Forest, on the Old Bears Ranging. Vyamer six skins had all six of his beasts, in the battle at the Wall. My point is, if any of the Mormont's we have "met" are Wargs, then why wouldn't they have their beast with them.

Jon feels that Ghost doesn't count as a friend, because Ghost is more than that, Ghost is a part of Jon. All Wargs feel this way towards there beasts, so I can not see a Warg leaving his beast behind. Jon only ever leaves Ghost for a long period of time, when he has to climb the Wall, that was when he absolutely had to leave him, because there was no way for Ghost to get over the Wall.

So in short, like I said, they could have been Wargs in the past, or maybe one of the Mormonts we have not "met" yet, is a Warg. But I don't believe any of them that we have "met" are Wargs, for reasons I have already listed.

Side note.

Did Alysane Mormont bring any Men with her, to Stannis, or just herself? I can't remember if she brought some Mormont Bannermen or not?if she did bring some, how many did she bring? If she didn't, wouldn't that be weird? The heir to Bear Island traveling alone(wouldn't that be a big hostage risk, she is pretty important)? Surely there were some men available to take with her? I guess I should just wait for the answer if she brought men or not with her, before I start asking all these "why not questions"

Though I am not entirely convinced Mormonts ARE skinchangers, should they be, I guess they could leave their animals behind: just look at Arya having connection to Nym from thousands of leagues away, and warging a stray cat, just to give one example...

As to why I don't think Mormonts aren't wargs, it's been stated on various occasions that whatever happens to the animal while warged, it has no physical effect on the skinchanger him/herself. Would be impossible to get pregnant that way then, wouldnt it?

Saying that her children were fathered by a bear is like Asha saying that a dirk was her child and an axe - the husband...

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Didn't Manderly tell Davos he'd cooperate with Stannis if he met up with Rikon?

Though fealty is definitely out of question. The only ones that pledged to Stannis were the Karstarks, and that was a fake...

I believe what Manderly said was if Davos brought him his leige lord then Manderly would accept Stannis as his king. One thing you need to remember is Rickon is not his leige lord, Bran is and Manderly knows Bran is alive as well. He might not know where Bran is though. Also who was there when he had this conversation with Davos? Wasn't it a Glover? Dosen't a Glover know about Robb's will possibly naming Jon as his heir? Manderly may know of this too. It will be very interesting when this all goes down!

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Didn't Manderly tell Davos he'd cooperate with Stannis if he met up with Rikon?

Though fealty is definitely out of question. The only ones that pledged to Stannis were the Karstarks, and that was a fake...

That's what he said, but if Stannis isn't willing to formally grant the North independence after he wins the Iron Throne, Manderly might end up moving against him anyways. The North is also far more likely to follow a Lord Manderly, even if he's seen as an immigrant, who represents their best shot at restoring the Kings in the North then they are a Southron King who would have them continue to serve the Iron Throne even in a best case scenario.

If Howland Reed adds his banners to Manderly and presents proof of Robb's will, then there won't be much stopping them from seizing control of the majority of the North, provided the situation at the Wall doesn't get too bad.

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The Mormonts have an ancestral hatred of the ironborn. Jon told Stannis taking deepwood and restoring it to the Glovers would help win northmen to his cause.

Fighting the ironborn and the freeing Arya thing would seem to be justification.

The x factor is Alysane is not lady of Bear Island. Maege is.

Why would an heir or Castellan tie her houses cause to Stannis without Maeges approval?

Unless she had approval. Maege went north with Galbart Glover of deepwood motte. It all ties together somehow.

Watch out for those Mormont women!

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There is no way Northmen will bow to a Baratheon after Joffrey chopped off head of The Ned, specially to a guy who is burning people and (more important) Wierwood tries......They are just using Stanis to get rid of the Boltons and return a Stark to Winterfell :cool4:

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There is no way Northmen will bow to a Baratheon after Joffrey chopped off head of The Ned, specially to a guy who is burning people and (more important) Wierwood tries......They are just using Stanis to get rid of the Boltons and return a Stark to Winterfell :cool4:

But if the Northern Houses ever found out that Ned actually knew that Stannis was the rightful heir, then they would support him.

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