Wind's Points of View.

[Fearsome Fred]

The story needs to refocus on the original core 6:

1) Bran

2) Jon

3) Arya

4) Sansa

5) Dany

6) Tyrion

Then we have those confirmed for tWoW:

7) Arianne

8) Damp-hair

9) Theon

As for the rest.

10) SAMWELL: No more POVs. He will reappear in the POVs of other characters as a doppleganger and a spy. Turns out the real Sam was assassinated by a faceless man.

11 & 12) BRIENNE AND JAIME: No more POVs. They are now "shadows" of their original selves.

13) DAVOS: No more POVs. What he finds on Skagos will be kept top secret from the reader until revealed to another POV character.

14) HOTAH: No more POVs. With any luck, has already served his purpose, which is to mislead the reader, by having Prince Doran refuse to speak plainly regarding certain secrets that Hotah is not privy to.

15) CERSEI: No clue. But she seems to be the only POV left in Kings Landing, so I guess we may see more of her.

16) MELISANDRE: I have no idea what purpose her last POV chapter served, so I don't know if we will see more of her POV.

17) BARRISTAN: Has hopefully served his purpose, seeing as Tyrion is already in Meereen and Dany may well be about to return.

18) VICTARION: Hopefully soon to have an encounter with Tyrion or Dany, rendering further POVs from him unnecessary.

19) ASHA: Is now one of 2 POVS reporting on the strange events going on near Winterfell, and they are now together. Until Theon dies, Asha is no longer necessary.

20) JON CONNINGTON: Isn't Arianne about to meet him? That should eliminate any need for this dufus.

So, including maybe Cersei, we are hopefully back to 10 POVs in the next volume. As for epilogue and prologue, I say screw 'em unless it advances the story.

[protar]

While agree with a couple of these points, I don't agree with most. I'm still not sure if you're trolling or not but I'll take the bait.

For one thing I'm still firmly of the belief that we'll get no more Bran chapters, or at most one shocking Bran chapter right at the end. He just knows too much.

There is no reason to assume Sam is dead. The FM has already infiltrated the citadel, he has no reason to take a new identity just yet. Switching faces would also leave a dead pate, which would arouse suspicion. And personally i like Sam and think he'll make it to the end.

I don't think there'll be any more Brienne chapters (thank god.) but I can see more of Jaime. I think he'll escape or otherwise survive his meeting with Uncat, and not as Unjaime. That card has been played too many times now.

It's not completely unreasonable for Martin to keep Davos' actions a secret, but personally I think we'll get 5 or so POV chapters from him.

Again I hope you're right about Areo. He's so boring and there's nothing going on in Dorne at the moment. So people want him there to see Doran's reaction to certain bits of news but personally we can do without it.

Agree here with Cersei, but again I reckon we'll be getting Tyene as well, which I'm quite looking forward to.

I think it was quite clear that Mel's POV was to show that she wasn't infallible and to give some hints of Jon being AA. I think we might be getting as many as 6 or 7 Melisandre POV's in TWOW to show what's going on at The Wall while Jon is dead. I'm quite thrilled at the prospect tbh.

Agree with you on Barristan. If Tyrion gets into Meereen quickly his POV shouldn't be neccesary.

I don't think Victarion will be meeting up with Dany and co till almost halfway into TWOW so we need more POV's from him, which is good because he's awesome.

Agree with you about Asha.

Martin has said that we'll be seeing the fall of Storm's End, so I think at least one or two Joncon POV's will be neccesary. After that sure he can blend in with Arrianne.

Also as a side not, unrelated to Fred's post; does anyone else not like these one off POV's? Characters like Mel and Joncon are really interesting so I wish we'd get a more even spread of POV's. Obviously not really possible with 18 POV's but something more even would be nice.

[protar]

I've been doing a little bit of thinking about how Martin can give us a more even spread of POV's as in the older books, and while my maths isn't great, I think it could work. Lets say TWOW is absolutely huge, like 1100 pages (I think that's just about doable.). Martin's chapters average 10 pages but due to some being quite a bit longer (and fewer being shorter.) lets make that 100 chapters. 98 excluding the prologue and epilogue. Now lets say we've got 16 main POV's. For each of them to have 5 chapters each we'd need aproximately 80 chapters. So by that maths we could have each POV have five chapters and then the remaining 18 could be distributed around the characters that require more. Then the remaining two are the prologue and the epilogue. So five chapters would be the absolute minimum amount of chapters for the POV characters. I have no idea if that checks out as my maths skills are awful but it seems good to me.

[Arkash]

Nice calculations, yes... it could work... except that I think we'll have more that 16 PoVs.

[coalstrawbean]

I hope Bran still has POVs, his story just got really interesting. With only two books left how much longer can he hold off revealing things to us from "characters who know too much." Bran's POV is an great opportunity to show us events from the past and tie things together

[protar]

Nice calculations, yes... it could work... except that I think we'll have more that 16 PoVs.

Well to reiterate I think the POV's will be the following:

Dany - 11 chapters

Tyrion - 10 chapters

Jon - 9 chapters

Sansa - 8 chapters

Cersei - 8 chapters

Theon - 7 chapters

Jaime - 7 chapters

Arianne - 7 chapters

Melisandre - 6 chapters

Tyene - 6 chapters

Arya - 6 chapters

Victarion - 5 chapters

Davos - 5 chapters

Aeron - 5 chapters

Samwell - 5 chapters

Griff - 5 chapters

Obara (prologue so my calculations account for her.) - 1 chapter

An unknown epilogue (again calculations account for them.) - 1 chapter

I'm not really seeing who else we need except possibly Bran. And even with say 18 POV's (which would probably be Bran and Barristan, and possibly Areo as well without Tyene (I don't believe that though.).), if Martin really kept his writing tight with roughly 10 page chapters, he could get 110 chapters, so we'd still have 5 chapters for each with 18 left over chapters. 90 chapters would be required for 18 POV's to get 5 chapters each. And for maximum awesomeness we could even get 16 POV's (not including prologue and epilogue.) and 110 chapters which would leave if we go by my theory, 28 spare chapters to spread around.

Not saying that's how things will go down, but I'm just saying Martin could do it and I hope he does. Personally I think on this front things are looking optimistic. Take Arianne for instance. In AFFC her entire arc was told in was it 3 chapters? From what Martin has released of TWOW she's taking three chapters to get to Storm's End, which indicates a larger character arc for her hopefully. That might not translate to all characters. But we can hope :)

Note: Edited to show how many chapters I estimate each character to have which works with 16 POV's and 108 no prologue/epilogue chapters.

[Fearsome Fred]

For one thing I'm still firmly of the belief that we'll get no more Bran chapters, or at most one shocking Bran chapter right at the end. He just knows too much.

I don't see that. Knows too much for what? Dragging the series out indefinitely? The story needs to refocus on the core six, and bring itself to a conclusion.

If he wants to leave Bran out for one volume, that's fine. But I don't want to see anyone else instead of Bran. I want to see the other five, plus other characters ONLY to the extent necessary to advance the plot.

There is no reason to assume Sam is dead.

The reasons are:

(1) If you have ( A ) faceless men, and ( B ) a zillion POV characters all in the same book, it is elementary that one of those POV characters will end up impersonated by a faceless man, but the reader won't be told.

(2) I am guessing Samwell as the most likely target, because:

( A ) I don't like the schmuck.

( B ) He is not one of the core 6, and I am of the opinion that all others are expendable or for a limited purpose.

( C ) He was last seen in the vicinity of a faceless man.

The FM has already infiltrated the citadel, he has no reason to take a new identity just yet.

You know his mission?

Switching faces would also leave a dead pate, which would arouse suspicion.

I got the impression that he had already left a dead pate. More likely, switching faces would leave a dead Samwell.

I don't think there'll be any more Brienne chapters (thank god.) but I can see more of Jaime. I think he'll escape or otherwise survive his meeting with Uncat, and not as Unjaime.

There was never any mention or suggestion of any meeting with unCat. The mission she was offered, as an alternative to the noose, ("sword or noose") was "take the sword and kill the kingslayer."

That card has been played too many times now.

If it leads nowhere, then yes. Once was too many. But if it is leading somewhere, he needs to keep playing it until we see the ultimate point.

Again I hope you're right about Areo. He's so boring and there's nothing going on in Dorne at the moment. So people want him there to see Doran's reaction to certain bits of news but personally we can do without it.

He is there to show the reader what is going on in Dorne WITHOUT showing the reader what is REALLY going on in Dorne. He is there to listen as the Prince tells a pack of lies and half-truths to people he does not trust 100%.

He is there, for instance, to conceal from the reader the fact that Myrcella is already dead; that Darkstar's wounds were fatal.

I don't think Victarion will be meeting up with Dany and co till almost halfway into TWOW [...]

So basically, you're not hoping for Dany to land in Westeros any time soon.

[...] so we need more POV's from him, which is good because he's awesome.

Awesome in what way? Not only is he 100% evil, but he is messing with powerful forces he does not understand. He's an evil schmuck, and doomed to die horribly, and the sooner the better.

He'll use human sacrifice and evil blood magic to make himself the "master of the dragon horn"; then he will use some poor guinea pig to blow the horn for him, probably Tyrion. Then he will die horribly. Because, of course, the dragon only obeys he that uses the horn. We can see this from the POV of the guinea pig he uses, who ends up in control of the dragon.

Martin has said that we'll be seeing the fall of Storm's End, so I think at least one or two Joncon POV's will be neccesary.

The fall of Storms End will likely be the prologue; seen from the POV of one of the defenders, and a one-off.

... I wish we'd get a more even spread of POV's.

Hell, no. Focus on the core six. Others only as necessary to advance the story.

[protar]

@ fearsomefred: I'll adress your points one by one and lets try and keep this civil.

Bran does know too much. He can see pretty much anywhere there's a Weirwood and can see into the past as well. His chapters if they exist are going to be rife with spoilers. At most I can see a single Bran chapter at the end, taking the role of an epilogue.

How exactly is it elementary for a character to be impersonated by a Faceless Man? That's never happened and there's no evidence of it happening. No I do not know Jaqen's mission at the citadel but seeing as he took the face of an apprentice Maester we can assume he's is trying to infiltrate the citadel in some manner. Seeing as he already appears to be nicely entrenched there now there's no need to kill Sam. Do you know his mission to assume that he needs to kill Sam? Your theory requires a much larger leap in logic then mine. And yes he did leave a dead Pate but he could despose of the body and take his place. If he changed to Sam's identity, Pate would go missing with no one to impersonate him which would arouse suspicion.

True, but I think Uncat would want to witness it, rather than leave it to chance. Also I have a theory (which I've mentioned on several other threads.) that Bran has contacted Uncat via the isle of faces, so her plans could have changed.

I beleive the ultimate point to these ressurections will be Jon Snow. We already have enough knowledge of ressurections and warging and blood magic for this to be plausible. No more are needed.

There is no evidence of Mrycella being dead. Furthermore Doran is sending her back to KL. I think Cersei might notice if they returned a different child. I think it more likely that Doran will arrange a hit on Myrcella on the way back.

On Dany getting to Westeros, I would of course like her to get to Westeros as fast as possible, but there are loose ends to tie up in Essos before she can get going. Leaving them hanging would just feel shoddy ad rushed.

And why does Victarion being evil prevent him from being awesome? and he's certainly not 100% evil. I think if you're going by such stark codes of morality you may be reading the wrong series.

Why would Storm's End be as a prologue when we already have a perfectly good POV character there? You might not like him, but Martin isn't going to waste his prologue on something he could do with a regular POV.

On your last point I'm going to have to disagree. The series has moved beyond just the original core six characters, and I've got no problem with that. Most of them are interesting well developed characters. Again, are you sure these are the books for you? From what I've seen of you on these forums your expectations really don't seem to match up to the world Martin has set up.

[blackseer]

Some data:

The book with the most chapters so far was ASoS with 80. And GRRM spent more pages per chapter in the last 2 books. So I doubt TWoW will have more than 90 chapters, if even close to that.

Usually, character with personal arcs have 5 or more chapters, with a few exceptions. There are also characters that are used only as a window to some place or someone, like Davos in ACoK or JonCon in ADwD, and the usually get less than 5.

Now, for my opinion:

I think we'll have more Bran chapters. He still doesn't have the full powers of a greenseer and the choices he have to make are essential to the series. He is also the closest to the Others now and this information is important, especially in this book. I guess around 4 chapters for him.

Jon is dead. Or dying. For him to recover, it will take some time. I believe he will come back as a POV, but only in the second half or by the end of the book. My guess is 2 chapters for him.

I think Sansa in the Eyrie will have a full arc, even though I don't dare to predict what will happen there. 7 chapters.

Arya too will have an arc, but shorter. 5 chapters.

Dany is in the middle of a mess, but I think it'll be resolved by the first half.She'll have one of the biggest arcs. 9 chapters.

Tyrion is in the same mess as Dany, but they will be separated in the second half. 10 chapters, only because he has the most chapters so far and is the author's favorite.

Theon will also have an important arc in this. 7 chapters.

Davos will serve more as a window to Rickon, not having a true arc, but Rickon is important. So 5 chapters for him.

I have no idea how will Jaime and Brienne mess be resolved. For character importance only, 5 for him and 2 for her.

Sam is in the Citatel and I would love a grand arc around him. But this is not Harry Potter, so only 6 for him (still good, btw).

Damphair... I don't like him, but he is confirmed. And probably with an arc. 5 then.

Asha is in the same place as Theon now, but she will be needed as a POV once in a while. So 3.

Victarion became a named POV in ADwD, so I guess he needs an arc now. 5 is good.

Arianne is also confirmed, probably with an arc. 5 too.

Cersei is our only POV in KL and needs an arc desperately. 6 chapters.

And lastly, Melisandre will be our substitute POV in the Wall until Jon comes back (or someone else goes there). 4 chapters.

I don't feel the necessite to include Areo, Barristan or JonCon POVs in this book, but if they do appear, won't be for more than 2 chapters each.

About new POVs, GRRM said he will not add them, so at least this mean he will try not to. I personally don't think it's necessary. There are plenty adn in good positions. The only think I wish to see and don't have a POV is what will happen with Obara and Ser Balon.

So, my counting ended in 90 chapters, plus prologue and epilogue, more than I believe TWoW will have. And, of course, this is my personal opinion and many seem to disagree with it, especially around Bran, Melisandre and new POVs.

[protar]

Some data:

The book with the most chapters so far was ASoS with 80. And GRRM spent more pages per chapter in the last 2 books. So I doubt TWoW will have more than 90 chapters, if even close to that.

Usually, character with personal arcs have 5 or more chapters, with a few exceptions. There are also characters that are used only as a window to some place or someone, like Davos in ACoK or JonCon in ADwD, and the usually get less than 5.

Now, for my opinion:

I think we'll have more Bran chapters. He still doesn't have the full powers of a greenseer and the choices he have to make are essential to the series. He is also the closest to the Others now and this information is important, especially in this book. I guess around 4 chapters for him.

Jon is dead. Or dying. For him to recover, it will take some time. I believe he will come back as a POV, but only in the second half or by the end of the book. My guess is 2 chapters for him.

I think Sansa in the Eyrie will have a full arc, even though I don't dare to predict what will happen there. 7 chapters.

Arya too will have an arc, but shorter. 5 chapters.

Dany is in the middle of a mess, but I think it'll be resolved by the first half.She'll have one of the biggest arcs. 9 chapters.

Tyrion is in the same mess as Dany, but they will be separated in the second half. 10 chapters, only because he has the most chapters so far and is the author's favorite.

Theon will also have an important arc in this. 7 chapters.

Davos will serve more as a window to Rickon, not having a true arc, but Rickon is important. So 5 chapters for him.

I have no idea how will Jaime and Brienne mess be resolved. For character importance only, 5 for him and 2 for her.

Sam is in the Citatel and I would love a grand arc around him. But this is not Harry Potter, so only 6 for him (still good, btw).

Damphair... I don't like him, but he is confirmed. And probably with an arc. 5 then.

Asha is in the same place as Theon now, but she will be needed as a POV once in a while. So 3.

Victarion became a named POV in ADwD, so I guess he needs an arc now. 5 is good.

Arianne is also confirmed, probably with an arc. 5 too.

Cersei is our only POV in KL and needs an arc desperately. 6 chapters.

And lastly, Melisandre will be our substitute POV in the Wall until Jon comes back (or someone else goes there). 4 chapters.

I don't feel the necessite to include Areo, Barristan or JonCon POVs in this book, but if they do appear, won't be for more than 2 chapters each.

About new POVs, GRRM said he will not add them, so at least this mean he will try not to. I personally don't think it's necessary. There are plenty adn in good positions. The only think I wish to see and don't have a POV is what will happen with Obara and Ser Balon.

So, my counting ended in 90 chapters, plus prologue and epilogue, more than I believe TWoW will have. And, of course, this is my personal opinion and many seem to disagree with it, especially around Bran, Melisandre and new POVs.

Well doubtless he'll be following the same model as he did in AFFC and ADWD but personally I don't like it as much as the old, more even model in the previous books, so I'm staying optimistic. And sure SOS is the biggest, but that doesn't mean he can't go bigger. It's also not impossible for him to move back to shorter chapters. Personally I'd much rather each POV got at least 5 chapters each. I think this would be best for moving the story along, because it would cut out all the filler chapters from the holy trinity of Jon, Dany and Tyrion and replace them with impactful chapters from other characters. Specifically looking at Joncon, it's pretty much confirmed that we'll get his POV again, due to Martin saying we'd get to see Storm's End fall.

As for new POV's, well I'm just a bit skeptical about it considering Martin has been wrong on so many of his previous predictions. Tyene can give us information that the other POV's just don't provided, and so long as he cuts down on other POV's it shouldn't bloat the story. In fact having a large portion of The Faith subplot tied up in 6 Tyene chapters (along with a few Cersei chapters probably would be good going.).

[Fearsome Fred]

@ fearsomefred: I'll adress your points one by one and lets try and keep this civil.

I'm sorry that you feel I have been uncivil. I shall try to be civiller.

Bran does know too much. He can see pretty much anywhere there's a Weirwood and can see into the past as well.

In theory, yes. In practice, he is seeing at random, and can learn no more and no less than GRRM needs the reader to learn.

How exactly is it elementary for a character to be impersonated by a Faceless Man?

I don't see much point to them, otherwise. Perhaps it would be best if they had never been mentioned at all. But lets drop it. Its just a thought. I have no intention of defending it to death.

True, but I think Uncat would want to witness it, rather than leave it to chance.

Apparently not, since she did not say "Take the sword and capture the kingslayer."

There is no evidence of Mrycella being dead.

Disagree. But the subject is best left for another thread. Suffice to say that my ideas regarding the purpose of Hotah's POV are based on the belief that Myrcella is dead.

Furthermore Doran is sending her back to KL.

He has no intention of letting her (or Tristane) ever reach King's Landing, as he has heavily hinted. His true intentions, of course, are secret. He cannot speak freely, as he makes clear.

On Dany getting to Westeros, I would of course like her to get to Westeros as fast as possible, but there are loose ends to tie up in Essos before she can get going. Leaving them hanging would just feel shoddy ad rushed.

Sure. But when forming theories, I form theories that favor story efficiency.

And why does Victarion being evil prevent him from being awesome? and he's certainly not 100% evil. I think if you're going by such stark codes of morality you may be reading the wrong series.

STARK CODES OF MORALITY!!!??? Because I don't like Victarion?

Guilty, I guess.

Why would Storm's End be as a prologue when we already have a perfectly good POV character there?

Story-efficiency does not care whose POV the prologue is, nor do I. Traditionally, the prologue POV bites the dust. The taking of Storms End would start the book with a bang, which is a good way to start. The prologue POV can be Jon Connington, for all I care, but I see no reason it has to be. It might be more fun to observe the tactics from the POV of the surprised defenders. Nor do I see any need for further POVs from Jon Connington.

In one of the early sample chapters semi-released, Storm's End has already been taken. Obviously, the Arianne chapter is not from the mid-point of the book. It is a very early chapter, and the chapter where Storm's End is taken is even earlier. Hence, probably the prologue.

You might not like him, but Martin isn't going to waste his prologue on something he could do with a regular POV.

He should not "waste" the prologue at all. Every page he writes should advance the story. And since when is Connington a "regular" POV?

Again, are you sure these are the books for you?

No. I do not worship GRRM. I want him to finish the story so I can decide if I like the story. I admit I am hooked, but that's all.

[Jory]

lol, "Stark codes of morality". :cool4:

[protar]

@FearsomeFred.

Agreed that most of the conversation is off topic. But about Joncon, having Storm's End as a prologue would be a waste of a prologue. There are lots of other events that could be covered in the prologue (the hunt for Darkstar being my prefered choice.), and furthermore these events can only really be covered in the prologue. Storm's End however can be covered easily via Joncon's pov. So for someone that wants story efficiency surely you realise that It's narratively more efficient for the prologues to be used as windows into areas that the current POV's can't access. And that's how the prologues and epilogues have always worked. Even on the occasions were they've taken place in a location already accessible by POV characters, it's been because we needed information the main POV's weren't privy to (Cressen's plan to poison Melisandre, Chett's conspiracy, Vary's monologue.). Furthermore we don't know how far into the book Arianne II is. The army on it's way to liberate Storm's End is a Tyrell army. You know, the house that has refused to deploy their forces until Margaery has been trialed. So unless Martin is just going to throw that little piece of information away (possible, but it would be sloppy.), then that chapter isn't going to take place before Cersei and Margaery's trial. It is of course possible for Storm's End to fall before this, but it does give there more wiggle room for it to happen at some point other than during the prologue.

[blackseer]

Did GRRM said we'll see Storm's End fall?

[Landis]

Just a thought: GRRM did say that we would see Storm's End fall, but he never specified who was in control of it when it fell. There is room for us to interpret that as meaning Aegon conquering the fortress, or somebody taking it back from him, I reckon.

[kephv]

Just a thought: GRRM did say that we would see Storm's End fall, but he never specified who was in control of it when it fell. There is room for us to interpret that as meaning Aegon conquering the fortress, or somebody taking it back from him, I reckon.

Stannis's men were in control of it. Aegon and Jon Con took it from them.

[Landis]

Stannis's men were in control of it. Aegon and Jon Con took it from them.

I don't disagree, I'm just saying it is possible that Storm's End could fall more than once in TWOW, and the fall that we see doesn't necessarily have to be the first one. If we see a second fall, for example, it could be through the eyes of either JonCon or Arianne, both of whom I anticipate being at Storm's End by the time the Tyrells arrive there. Having it be a second fall also means that GRRM can focus on the trials of Cersei and Marg in King's Landing, as well as the events in the North in the first part of the book, Marg's trial being a particular necessity, as we know that the Tyrells won't march on Storm's End until her trial is completed. There are other ways of organizing everything, but I think it is plausible that Storm's End falls twice, and we see the second one.

[protar]

I don't disagree, I'm just saying it is possible that Storm's End could fall more than once in TWOW, and the fall that we see doesn't necessarily have to be the first one. If we see a second fall, for example, it could be through the eyes of either JonCon or Arianne, both of whom I anticipate being at Storm's End by the time the Tyrells arrive there. Having it be a second fall also means that GRRM can focus on the trials of Cersei and Marg in King's Landing, as well as the events in the North in the first part of the book, Marg's trial being a particular necessity, as we know that the Tyrells won't march on Storm's End until her trial is completed. There are other ways of organizing everything, but I think it is plausible that Storm's End falls twice, and we see the second one.

I find it unlikely to be honest. And really you seem to be using it as an excuse to get around a Joncon POV but then you go and say he'll be there at the second fall. If you see what I mean. I really don't think the story needs to be bogged down anymore. Let Aegon keep Storm's End and move onto KL.

[Landis]

I find it unlikely to be honest. And really you seem to be using it as an excuse to get around a Joncon POV but then you go and say he'll be there at the second fall. If you see what I mean. I really don't think the story needs to be bogged down anymore. Let Aegon keep Storm's End and move onto KL.

I'm not trying to get around a JonCon POV at all. I'm trying to get around spending thirty or more pages on Aegon taking Storm's End, when it would be far more pivotal (in my opinion) if JonCon dies as Storm's End is taken by the Tyrells at the end of TWOW, leaving Aegon without his mentor, and a loss of ground, which gives Daenerys more incentive to hurry to Westeros. An early scene of Storm's End falling to Aegon and JonCon distracts from other more pressing concerns.

[protar]

I'm not trying to get around a JonCon POV at all. I'm trying to get around spending thirty or more pages on Aegon taking Storm's End, when it would be far more pivotal (in my opinion) if JonCon dies as Storm's End is taken by the Tyrells at the end of TWOW, leaving Aegon without his mentor, and a loss of ground, which gives Daenerys more incentive to hurry to Westeros. An early scene of Storm's End falling to Aegon and JonCon distracts from other more pressing concerns.

Well it's possible, but Storm's End is the caslte that's never fallen. Aegon and Joncon taking it is supposed to be a big event so having it happen again, in the same novel no less would chapen the impact. If you're looking at how the story could be sped up, surely they go to KL rather than sitting out a massive siege, and Joncon dies in an attack there.