And the Iron Thrones goes to...

[Falrinn]

GOD DAMN IT STOP SAYING THAT!!

If Jon Snow is the son of Rhagaer, it won't make a damn difference. Rhagaer was never married to Lyanna, and therefore Jon Snow is still a bastard and will remain so. The only difference this theory of R+L=J will make is that Jon Snow will be called Jon Waters, which is pretty lame.

Jon considers himself a Stark, although he doesn't have the name. His father will always be Ned Stark. And hey if Jon accepts the legitimization from King Stannis he will be Lord Jon of House Stark, Warden of the North. Or maybe King in the North.

What makes me think it's legit is the very strange behavior of the last 3 Kingsguard loyalists when Ned confronted them at the Tower of Joy.

When Aerys was slain, the Kingsguard should of shifted their allegiance to Viserys and went off to Dragonstone. Even if they were given orders to guard the tower, at least one of them should of gone there simply to protect the king. But instead they stood their ground, fighting to the death to protect a strategically insignificant tower that held only a dying girl the dead prince happened to like. To me, that just doesn't make a lot of sense and there has to be more to the story.

Unless Jon was legitimate (the Targaryans have practiced polygamy in the past after all). In that case their actions make perfect sense. They did not go to Dragonstone because their king was not on Dragonstone at all, their king was right there at the Tower of Joy and his name was Jon Targaryan.

[iamthedave]

What makes me think it's legit is the very strange behavior of the last 3 Kingsguard loyalists when Ned confronted them at the Tower of Joy.

When Aerys was slain, the Kingsguard should of shifted their allegiance to Viserys and went off to Dragonstone. Even if they were given orders to guard the tower, at least one of them should of gone there simply to protect the king. But instead they stood their ground, fighting to the death to protect a strategically insignificant tower that held only a dying girl the dead prince happened to like. To me, that just doesn't make a lot of sense and there has to be more to the story.

Unless Jon was legitimate (the Targaryans have practiced polygamy in the past after all). In that case their actions make perfect sense. They did not go to Dragonstone because their king was not on Dragonstone at all, their king was right there at the Tower of Joy and his name was Jon Targaryan.

Alternatively they could have been obeying their last order.

Even if Jon was born in legitimacy, how on earth could that be proven? Where's the man who did the marriage? Who witnessed it? The only people still alive are... Howland Reed. And if he comes forward after all these years claiming that Jon frickin' Snow is actually Rhaegar and Lyanna's son born of a marriage nobody in Westeros knows about then he'll be laughed right back to the North.

Plus, Jon Snow doesn't have a shred of Targ looks. Anyone who sees him is going to think 'that's a Stark right there'. Aegon at least has the superficials down, and Jon Connington has a hell of a lot more legitimacy than Howland Reed does, given he was there at the time, was a close friend of Rhaegar's (as opposed to a traitor who rose up against the Targ dynasty), and has spent his life since leaving raising Aegon up.

And even THEN proving that Aegon is legitimate will be a tough one.

Jon's got no-one who'll speak to his Targ-ness, no proof, no way to get proof, and no interest in anything Southward save maybe destroying Casterly Rock and doing an Indian war dance in the ruins.

While the R + L = J theory does have merit, I find a lot of the 'where it goes' theories to be at best wishful thinking, and few are wishier than the idea they were all luvvy duvvy wuvvy up in that tower and got happily married until the eeeeeeeevil outside world came and ruined their perfect romance.

[David C. Hunter]

Alternatively they could have been obeying their last order.

Even if Jon was born in legitimacy, how on earth could that be proven? Where's the man who did the marriage? Who witnessed it? The only people still alive are... Howland Reed. And if he comes forward after all these years claiming that Jon frickin' Snow is actually Rhaegar and Lyanna's son born of a marriage nobody in Westeros knows about then he'll be laughed right back to the North.

Plus, Jon Snow doesn't have a shred of Targ looks. Anyone who sees him is going to think 'that's a Stark right there'. Aegon at least has the superficials down, and Jon Connington has a hell of a lot more legitimacy than Howland Reed does, given he was there at the time, was a close friend of Rhaegar's (as opposed to a traitor who rose up against the Targ dynasty), and has spent his life since leaving raising Aegon up.

And even THEN proving that Aegon is legitimate will be a tough one.

Jon's got no-one who'll speak to his Targ-ness, no proof, no way to get proof, and no interest in anything Southward save maybe destroying Casterly Rock and doing an Indian war dance in the ruins.

While the R + L = J theory does have merit, I find a lot of the 'where it goes' theories to be at best wishful thinking, and few are wishier than the idea they were all luvvy duvvy wuvvy up in that tower and got happily married until the eeeeeeeevil outside world came and ruined their perfect romance.

Lol nice ending. Between all of AA symbolism in Jon's death, the entire concept of Ice and Fire(stark and targ) and the balance that is needed between the, the fact that the kingsguard were there to protect insignificant lyanna stark all point to Jon being a targ. Regardless what Rhaegor told the 7, at least one should've went to protect his heirs or help him in battle. However, Arthur Dayne, the greatest swordsmen of the era was there to protect....Lyanna and her bastard? No...it points to Jon being a legit heir to westeros with the best claim because aegon is really dead and Dany is the aunt, not actual heir. If this series is truly about ice and fire and the balance that is needed to restore order it almost 'has' to be Jon, if it isn't it's kinda bad writing.

[Lady Octarina]

Alternatively they could have been obeying their last order.

Even if Jon was born in legitimacy, how on earth could that be proven? Where's the man who did the marriage? Who witnessed it? The only people still alive are... Howland Reed. And if he comes forward after all these years claiming that Jon frickin' Snow is actually Rhaegar and Lyanna's son born of a marriage nobody in Westeros knows about then he'll be laughed right back to the North.

Plus, Jon Snow doesn't have a shred of Targ looks. Anyone who sees him is going to think 'that's a Stark right there'. Aegon at least has the superficials down, and Jon Connington has a hell of a lot more legitimacy than Howland Reed does, given he was there at the time, was a close friend of Rhaegar's (as opposed to a traitor who rose up against the Targ dynasty), and has spent his life since leaving raising Aegon up.

And even THEN proving that Aegon is legitimate will be a tough one.

Jon's got no-one who'll speak to his Targ-ness, no proof, no way to get proof, and no interest in anything Southward save maybe destroying Casterly Rock and doing an Indian war dance in the ruins.

I always thought there must be an official document written in Rhaegar's hand about it. Ned could either have destroyed it or safely left it with Howland Reed. I don't think he ever had the intention of letting Jon learn the truth anyway, unlike in the show; but if Reed knew the truth and had a way of proving it, that could explain his absence from Winterfell for so long (correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember something about his not going to Winterfell to pay homage (?) to his Lord for a very long time, in ACOK?

[Jory]

The Targaryens haven't practiced polygamy for hundreds of years.

R+L=J makes plenty of sense, and is a very valid theory. The idea that they were married and that Jon is the legitimate heir to the throne is not. Consider the matter of Joffrey's incestuous parents. Joffrey doesn't look anything like a Baratheon. Ned Stark, Jon Arryn, and Stannis Baratheon all found out the truth of his origins. The Realm at large still didn't believe it. Do you really think they're going to take the word of a fucking crannogman that Jon is the legitimate heir of the Targaryen dynasty?

Another point: even if he is, fuck the Targaryens.

[MtnLion]

I always thought there must be an official document written in Rhaegar's hand about it. Ned could either have destroyed it or safely left it with Howland Reed. I don't think he ever had the intention of letting Jon learn the truth anyway, unlike in the show; but if Reed knew the truth and had a way of proving it, that could explain his absence from Winterfell for so long (correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember something about his not going to Winterfell to pay homage (?) to his Lord for a very long time, in ACOK?

I like this thought, at least the idea that there is something which proves Jon's heritage. I would think that it may be hidden with Lyanna's bones, since who would think to look there. Of course we know that Jon is afraid of what he will discover in the crypts of Winterfell.

ETA: Damn QWERTY

[MtnLion]

The Targaryens haven't practiced polygamy for hundreds of years.

R+L=J makes plenty of sense, and is a very valid theory. The idea that they were married and that Jon is the legitimate heir to the throne is not. Consider the matter of Joffrey's incestuous parents. Joffrey doesn't look anything like a Baratheon. Ned Stark, Jon Arryn, and Stannis Baratheon all found out the truth of his origins. The Realm at large still didn't believe it. Do you really think they're going to take the word of a fucking crannogman that Jon is the legitimate heir of the Targaryen dynasty?

Another point: even if he is, fuck the Targaryens.

If Jon is not the legitimate heir, why would the cream of the King's Guard defend him? It is precisely written that the King's Guard is defending the heir to the throne at the Tower of Joy, there is no other reason for the fight. The only issue is that we do not know who all are present, GRRM has been pretty vague about who "they" were that found Ned holding Lyanna's hand and presumably the child that slipped from her hands when she died. I do expect to hear about a wetnurse, at least.

[The Sunset King]

If we purely went by the dynamics at the end of ADWD it would seem that Stannis or Aegon have the best chance of ending up on the throne due to the ability of each to exploit the shattering of the Tyrell-Lannister alliance. With Euron's activities, the breakdown brought on by conspiracies, the actions of the High Septon, and recent windfalls for Stannis/Aegon, there is a considerable opportunity for defections to a rising anti-Lannister force. Stannis will likely win the North and scored a major gain in the form of the Iron Bank's support. Should Aegon die, Stannis, his cause having been ressurected, would become the main source of anti-Lannister opposition and would be well positioned to exploit that. Aegon has various conspirators throughout both Westeros and Essos working to place him on the throne and may be able to convince much of the realm that he actually is a Targaryen answer to their troubles. Considering how cynically the Tyrells exploited the Lannister charade, many may not care much whether Aegon is or is not a true Targaryen. A well considered marriage would bring additional forces to his side and he is almost guaranteed Dornish support. On the surface the Iron Throne appears to be able to marshal impressive forces but look deeply and you see how advanced the state of decay actually is.

However, GRRM likely has various plot twists intended to make the throne's final occupants, that is if there is even a single kingdom ruled from the Iron Throne at the end, less predictable. Thus, a successful Stannis/Aegon conquest of the throne may not confirm who will be on the throne at the end; the king might die, etc. I think Daenerys will return to Westeros but it is far from certain that she will end up gaining the throne. A Targaryen restoration is possible but so are plot twists that thwart it. It may be that Howland Reed knows something that could help Jon to the throne, however it still probably would be difficult to get it widely accepted; had he very convincing proof, Reed should have presented it very soon after the War of the Kings began to stop the bloodshed. Given the very real possibility of plot twists that help an unexpected candidate, it cannot be ruled out that some previously minor character might actually someone take the throne.

[Lady Octarina]

Considering how cynically the Tyrells exploited the Lannister charade, many may not care much whether Aegon is or is not a true Targaryen. A well considered marriage would bring additional forces to his side and he is almost guaranteed Dornish support.

After reading these words, I'm now nearly certain the Tyrells will convince Aegon to marry Margaery, or at least try to - which means he won't be the final occupant of the Iron Throne, as History suggests =P

(and Tommen doesn't need to die; the marriage could be nullified, considering he is a child)

[CrypticWeirwood]

Lords Brynden and Branden could confirm Jon’s parentage.

[MtnLion]

In the interim I see Stannis and Aegon both taking the throne or expressing their claim to it. Danaerys needs to kill their lies, in some manner. In the end it may only need to be Danaerys that is convinced that Jon is the legitimate heir, but I don't think that will go smoothly.

[Jaehaerys I]

I think I would be happy if there was a king/queen at the wall and king/queen in KL. I think the invasion of the others will remind the realm of how important the wall is.

Stannis/Jon at the wall

Dany/Aegon in KL

[Landis]

So, I'm rereading GoT, and in the chapter where Arya overhears Varys and Illyrio chatting, Varys says "[Ned] has the bastard, he has the book, and soon enough he'll have the truth." Later, when Arya is telling Ned about everything, she says "They said you had a book and a bastard and if one Hand could die, why not a second? Is that the book? Jon's the bastard, I bet."

Now, in the context of the story at this point, we are meant to think that Arya has misinterpreted, because we know that Ned has just found Robert's bastard, Gendry, and we are trying to figure out why Gendry is significant. But it seems slightly ironic that Jon is mentioned, when we have such strong evidence regarding R+L=J as well, and we later find out that Varys and Illyrio have vested interests in a Targaryen restoration. We also know that Varys knows a hell of a lot about just about everything... Is it possible that he would know about Jon's heritage, or the book contains some clue to it? As I said, given the context of the quote, it's unlikely that the bastard is anyone but Gendry, and it implies that Ned doesn't know Jon's parentage, but the foreshadowing is there, anyway.

[Melifeather]

While I believe that Jon and Dany are important in uniting the realm, it's my opinion that Bran or Rickon will eventually sit the Iron Throne. Of those two, Rickon is the most likely as Bran will probably stay underground like Bloodraven.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I thought the fact her period came back at the end of ADwD made it relatively clear that she is fertile again..

Not her period. She had a miscarriage.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

There is no such prophesy. The only prophesy is that gold shall be their crowns and gold shall be their shrouds.

The way the prophecy is worded, Cersei's "tears" that will drown her stem from the deaths of her child. "AND when your tears have drowned you" reads like it's sequential.

[Jaehaerys I]

So, I'm rereading GoT, and in the chapter where Arya overhears Varys and Illyrio chatting, Varys says "[Ned] has the bastard, he has the book, and soon enough he'll have the truth." Later, when Arya is telling Ned about everything, she says "They said you had a book and a bastard and if one Hand could die, why not a second? Is that the book? Jon's the bastard, I bet."

Now, in the context of the story at this point, we are meant to think that Arya has misinterpreted, because we know that Ned has just found Robert's bastard, Gendry, and we are trying to figure out why Gendry is significant. But it seems slightly ironic that Jon is mentioned, when we have such strong evidence regarding R+L=J as well, and we later find out that Varys and Illyrio have vested interests in a Targaryen restoration. We also know that Varys knows a hell of a lot about just about everything... Is it possible that he would know about Jon's heritage, or the book contains some clue to it? As I said, given the context of the quote, it's unlikely that the bastard is anyone but Gendry, and it implies that Ned doesn't know Jon's parentage, but the foreshadowing is there, anyway.

I believe full heartedly that they are talking about Gendry. I interpret it as them knowing that Ned knows that none of Roberts kids are his and they are from Cersei and Jaime. Arya only mentions Jon because he is who she thinks of when she hears bastard associated with Ned.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

GOD DAMN IT STOP SAYING THAT!!

If Jon Snow is the son of Rhagaer, it won't make a damn difference. Rhagaer was never married to Lyanna, and therefore Jon Snow is still a bastard and will remain so. The only difference this theory of R+L=J will make is that Jon Snow will be called Jon Waters, which is pretty lame.

Jon considers himself a Stark, although he doesn't have the name. His father will always be Ned Stark. And hey if Jon accepts the legitimization from King Stannis he will be Lord Jon of House Stark, Warden of the North. Or maybe King in the North.

You sure about that? Arthur Dayne, Gerold Hightower and Oswell Whent might disagree with you. And so might ... Bloodraven. ("King! King!")

Alternatively they could have been obeying their last order.

Rhaegar's order died with him. When the old king/heir dies, they immediately change allegiance to the new king. They swear an oath to the office, not necessarily the person. They knew Rhaegar was dead and that Viserys was on Dragonstone, but they weren't there with him.

Even if Jon was born in legitimacy, how on earth could that be proven?

I don't think Martin would include this seemingly central mystery if he didn't have some way in mind to prove it within the story.

[Lady Octarina]

So, I'm rereading GoT, and in the chapter where Arya overhears Varys and Illyrio chatting, Varys says "[Ned] has the bastard, he has the book, and soon enough he'll have the truth." Later, when Arya is telling Ned about everything, she says "They said you had a book and a bastard and if one Hand could die, why not a second? Is that the book? Jon's the bastard, I bet."

Now, in the context of the story at this point, we are meant to think that Arya has misinterpreted, because we know that Ned has just found Robert's bastard, Gendry, and we are trying to figure out why Gendry is significant. But it seems slightly ironic that Jon is mentioned, when we have such strong evidence regarding R+L=J as well, and we later find out that Varys and Illyrio have vested interests in a Targaryen restoration. We also know that Varys knows a hell of a lot about just about everything... Is it possible that he would know about Jon's heritage, or the book contains some clue to it? As I said, given the context of the quote, it's unlikely that the bastard is anyone but Gendry, and it implies that Ned doesn't know Jon's parentage, but the foreshadowing is there, anyway.

That's interesting, but it's very unlikely they were referring to Jon. I mean, I always thought Varys might have some idea about who Jon's parents were, since he seems to know everything, but if he knew he was legitimate, for example, that would interfere in his plans to put YG on the throne. Also, if he knew, wouldn't it be likely he would have suggested something about that to Ned in those months he was in King's Landing? If not to plot with him, at least to torture his poor mind...

[Falrinn]

That's interesting, but it's very unlikely they were referring to Jon. I mean, I always thought Varys might have some idea about who Jon's parents were, since he seems to know everything, but if he knew he was legitimate, for example, that would interfere in his plans to put YG on the throne. Also, if he knew, wouldn't it be likely he would have suggested something about that to Ned in those months he was in King's Landing? If not to plot with him, at least to torture his poor mind...

Yeah, plus what "truth" would relate to Jon that Ned is on the verge of discovering? He obviously already knows of Jon's true parentage, so Varys couldn't of possibly been worried about Ned finding out about that.