Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Fearsome Fred

Did Quentyn Succeed? [Spoilers]

Recommended Posts

It may seem a strange question, obviously, but consider the following.

Quentyn, accustomed to being addressed as "Prince", is an ordinary looking man.

The "Tattered Prince" is also customarily addresses as "Prince", and is also an ordinary looking man, so much so that he claims all he need do is remove his distinctive cloak, and no-one will recognize him.

Most of the Windblown come from the Seven Kingdoms, and speak the common tongue.

The second prince may ALSO have been present (anonymously) when Quentyn freed the dragons. Quentyn expected him to be present, but Merys merely claims he is "nearby". Four of the Six windblown who accompanied Quentyn and his 2 Dornish accomplices were masked and anonymous. One, a crossbowman, was killed and eaten. The Tattered Prince may have been one of the remaining three.

When Viserion roars at the Windblown, Quentyn hears Pretty Meris yelling at someone (Tatters?) to get out of the way.

Viserion, the dragon Quentyn may have been forming a connection with, seems to have left the city. Could he have taken Quentyn with him? Quentyn was burning, last time we saw him. But Dany was burning as well, when she left on Drogon, and she is quite alive.

The burnt-beyond recognition "Prince" who spent 3-days dying on Dany's bed, and occasionally speaking only a few words, may have been Tatters and not Quentyn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Given that Archie burned his hands trying to put the flames out, and that he and Drinkwater had had their eyes on Quentyn pretty much the whole time, I don't really see room for Quentyn and the Tattered Prince to just magically swap places.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If becoming a roasted chestnut was his aim, then yes! He succeded with flying colours. .. as for swapping....... no. Epic fail!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like that since I do like Quentyn, but it seems improbable. There have been quite enough swaps already. It seems like we readers got paranoid and don't trust any of the names/people GRRM gives us anymore. Sometimes, something is just what it seems to be. Also the Chapter is from Quentyns PoV, so...

But you do bring up the point that Quentyn managed to convince one of the dragons it seems. Just bad luck there was another one. If there really was a swap, his companions are really good actors. But I think there has to be something more to Quentyn, anyone could have freed the Dragons, if that was the point of his story. Did he just need to die so that Arianne could have some character growth back home. Did we need to be introduced to the Tattered Prince or Pretty Meris (and that's not something Tyrion or Victarion or Barristan could have done?). Did he just want to have a PoV that could visit the dragons at least twice? I really hope there's more to it. time will tell

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Given that Archie burned his hands trying to put the flames out, and that he and Drinkwater had had their eyes on Quentyn pretty much the whole time, I don't really see room for Quentyn and the Tattered Prince to just magically swap places.

You are assuming that they are telling Barristan the full truth of what happened, or even that they know the full truth. If Viserion carried off Quentyn, would they have reason, after being arrested, to doubt reports that he had died?

We don't know exactly how Archie burnt his hands. He may indeed have been putting out the fires burning Quentyn's clothes and hair. Quentyn may still have survived, if he is, indeed, the blood of the dragon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nah, Quentyn is a crispy critter. That's what happens when you try to "steal" a dragon.

If he truly wanted Dany and the dragons, why didn't they just hang out for a while and get to know them. Maybe after a few weeks, months the dragons would have come to know Quentyn and maybe he could have taken a ride then but just to show up out of the blue and try to kidnap a dragon, please -- that sounds like something Cersei would do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nah, Quentyn is a crispy critter. That's what happens when you try to "steal" a dragon.

If he truly wanted Dany and the dragons, why didn't they just hang out for a while and get to know them. Maybe after a few weeks, months the dragons would have come to know Quentyn and maybe he could have taken a ride then but just to show up out of the blue and try to kidnap a dragon, please -- that sounds like something Cersei would do.

Well Dany was gone so there was no hanging out with her. And hanging out with the dragons without her there to control them would turn out just like it did. They would struggle to get free and probably kill anyone in the way. Hanging out with the dragons with Dany there may have gone the same way. It was said that she was losing control of them, something that seemed to be related to her losing a hold on herself and her purpose in Mereen. It wasn't until after the events at the fighting pits that she rebonded with Drogon, and even that took time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There have been quite enough swaps already.

Yes, perhaps. And too many cliffhangers. And too many chapters that don't go anywhere. But perhaps Quentyn's chapters are going somewhere. That is all I am suggesting.

Sometimes, something is just what it seems to be.

Sometimes.

Also the Chapter is from Quentyns PoV, so...

Which establishes that he was on fire, and that he was screaming. Not that he died. Dany was on fire as well. Dany was injured and burned as well.

But you do bring up the point that Quentyn managed to convince one of the dragons it seems. Just bad luck there was another one.

Bad luck, but not necessarily fatal ...

If there really was a swap, his companions are really good actors.

Or they may believe him dead. They saw him burning; they may have seen him carried off by Viserion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As has been said, Dany was not in the city. Many thought/think her dead and/or kidnapped by a Dragon. She litterally walked towards the Drogon and flew away. The longer it takes for her to return, the more anarchy there is in Meeren. She was the glue that hold the thing together. Quentyn was not in high regards: He's a foreigner, he has few men, he alienated the mercenaries somehow and the "Harpy" and Hizdahr are trying to take back the town. Waiting was not an option.He could have spoken with Barristan.

Apart from that I doubt that Dany would give Quentyn anything. She's totally into bad guys, big muscle, no brain. See Daario. Quentyn is the total opposite of that. So if Quentyn wanted to fulfill the mission he was on, he had to do something. Be proactive. If Dany returns, he has proven himself by taming a Dragon, if not, well he has a Dragon... So the plan was sound, what was wrong was the second Dragon...

As for the theory that Viserion took off with Quentyn. Well, it's possible, but it's very crackpot. If you take a look at the last Dany chapter, Drogon seems to ignore her somehow. If she got burned, how could he heal her? And Quentyn most definately got burnt, he even writes so. So I don't see how Viserion could heal him. Even if he is in character more like Quentyn (calm, somehow curious) and the riders seem to match up in character with the dragons, I don't see it. If someone climbs up the pyramid (Tyrion?) and tames Viserion, he would only find another dead body. probably... ;)

@Fearsome Fred Crosspost, he... Well, yes. I gotta do a reread with that in mind. It's certainly possible, but it is crackpot. And I do think we need less mummery, swaps and lies in this story from a literary point of view.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree. Even if Quentyn may have a "drop of dragon's blood" thru some ancestor, that doesn't make you "The Blood of the Dragon"

Even Dany lost her way for awhile. We've seen the dragons pick up on Dany's mood and react many times, so the way Drogon especially was acting shows that the bond between dragon and rider is very close. While Dany was able to pretend that things were going to work out and her marriage would seal the peace of the Mereene for her people, I think deep down she knew better and Drogon's actions show it. When she was in the pit watching the fighting she wanted to be anywhere else in the world. She hated what was happening in front of her and she hated the Meereens for making her agree to it. She should have let Drogon burn them all instead she made him flee and that totally goes against a dragon's true nature. Drogon taking Dany to the middle of nowhere and leaving her to "think on her actions" was just what she needed/wanted.

I think Mereene will soon find out what it means to wake The Dragon.

If Quentyn would have formed a bond with a dragon then Dany would have had to take him as a husband/partner and Doran plan would have worked out. Dorne just can't catch a break can it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree. Even if Quentyn may have a "drop of dragon's blood" thru some ancestor, that doesn't make you "The Blood of the Dragon"

True, but irrelevant. "Dragon's blood" in any quantity, by itself, guarantees nothing. Just because Quentyn is the last person you expect to be one of the "three heads of the dragon" doesn't mean he is not one of them.

Is it not just slightly surreal that Quentyn does not notice he is burning - does not even notice the heat - until a moment or two after he gets blasted with dragon fire? Or perhaps "supernatural" would be a better word.

Dorne just can't catch a break can it.

If they don't catch one soon, we've been wasting alot of time with them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As has been said, Dany was not in the city.

She WAS in the City. She was carried off by a dragon. The same may have happened to Quentyn. Viserion, like Drogon, seems to have left the city. There is, at least, no indication to the contrary that I can recall.

Many thought/think her dead and/or kidnapped by a Dragon.

And many thought they saw her fall. If Viserion made off with Quenty, Quentyn's Dornish associates may suspect the same thing. From their jail cells, they would have no reason to doubt reports that his body had been recovered and had spent 3 days dying.

She litterally walked towards the Drogon and flew away.

Quentyn also "literally" walked toward Viserion. It was Drogon who flew away, taking Dany with him; and Viserion may have done the same.

Quentyn was not in high regards: He's a foreigner, he has few men,[...]

And the only men who know him intimately are locked in a jail cell during the 3 days he spends dying.

If you take a look at the last Dany chapter, Drogon seems to ignore her somehow. If she got burned, how could he heal her?

She got burnt. She was seen burning and her (relatively minor) burn injuries are later confirmed.

And Quentyn most definately got burnt, he even writes so.

Yes. Perhaps he even got burnt worse than Dany ... perhaps.

If someone climbs up the pyramid (Tyrion?) and tames Viserion, [...]

Rhaegal made his lair in the pyramid. We don't know where Viserion went.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quentyn's toast. Old Tatters didn't go in with them (there was no need; it would've been an unneccessary risk for him) and the Big Man burnt himself trying to put out Quentyn (he wouldn't piss on the Tattered Prince if he was on fire).

Also, even though he was severely burned, I think they would've noticed he wasn't him when he tried to speak.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quentyn's toast. Old Tatters didn't go in with them (there was no need; it would've been an unneccessary risk for him) [...]

Maybe. But you assume more than you know about his character. Would he really ask his most trusted followers and closest associates to take risks he would not take himself?

and the Big Man burnt himself trying to put out Quentyn

Sure he did. But that is consistent with my theory. Viserion can still carry him off.

Also, even though he was severely burned, I think they would've noticed he wasn't him when he tried to speak.

How? The only people who know him are in jail?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Definitely an intriguing theory! Personally, I hope Quentyn really is dead, since I found him to be VERY dull. Plus, I think it will be more interesting if we get to see Dorne react to his death versus Dany being forced into a marriage with him. Quentyn doesn't make it onto my people-that-aren't-really-dead crackpot list, but only time will tell! :dunno:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yronwood not only burnt his hands while trying to put out the flames, he had Quentyns body cradled in his arms when the Brazen Beasts came after the Dragons flew away. There is no way he would have him mistaken in these circumstances. Quentyn is well done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Pov was from the prince himself, and he saw himself catch on fire from dragon breath. It is said that WIldfire is second only to dragonfire in how well and hot it burns. Wildfire will burn even on the water and is almost impossible to put out. If dragonfire is worse, then the fact that Quenten was covered in it means he was doomed. Its like getting hit with napalm or a flame thrower, the mixture that lands on you sticks and burns so fiercely that it can't be put out until it burns out on its own. No way Quenten got out of that one.

But I wouldn't call it a total failure on his part, I bet he made for some nice crispy bacon. My mouth is watering just thinking about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Pov was from the prince himself, and he saw himself catch on fire from dragon breath.

Barristan saw the same thing happen to Dany.

It is said that WIldfire is second only to dragonfire in how well and hot it burns.

And yet Dany is not dead.

If dragonfire is worse, then the fact that Quenten was covered in it means he was doomed.

I don't know to what extent that is true, to what extent it applied to someone who is one of the "heads of the dragon", or to what extent he was "covered in it".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yronwood not only burnt his hands while trying to put out the flames, he had Quentyns body cradled in his arms when the Brazen Beasts came after the Dragons flew away.

This is mentioned in Barristan's POV. But Barristan was not there.

(Not sure if it matters, but it is unclear if this was AFTER the Dragons flew away).

There is no way he would have him mistaken in these circumstances. Quentyn is well done.

Since Quentyn (or Tatters) was burned beyond recognition, and may not even have been conscious, it is hardly clear that there was "no way" his friends could mistake him. All that is needed is to lose track of the original Quentyn before finding him again. And all that is needed for that to happen is for Viserion to sieze Quentyn and the Dornishmen to give chase before coming across "Quentyn's" burned body. (Both Quentyn and the anonymous Windblown members were dressed in the uniforms of Bronze Beasts).

And if you think mistaken identity by close acquaintances is impossible, google Whitney Cerak, who did not even suffer significant facial injuries, and was 4" taller than the girl she was mistaken for.

Note also, that it is possible that both of the Dornishmen know that Quentyn is still alive, but don't want Barristan to know it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×