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who will be the "Regent" in the iron throne


Itai Peer

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Varys wants Cersei as regent. I guess he made it clear when he killed Kevan Lannister with a crosbow. it will be thrill to read Cersei's paranoia in tWoW.

Love this to be true, two dead brothers settling scores from thier first life. Only with GRRM the hound might wind up headless

However i don't think her "ruling" will be long one. I really think The Hound will champion the Faith in Cersei's trial by combat. And her head will be rolling on Baelor's steps

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Varys wants Cersei as regent. I guess he made it clear when he killed Kevan Lannister with a crosbow. it will be thrill to read Cersei's paranoia in tWoW.

Love this to be true, two dead brothers settling scores from thier first life. Only with GRRM the hound might wind up headless

However i don't think her "ruling" will be long one. I really think The Hound will champion the Faith in Cersei's trial by combat. And her head will be rolling on Baelor's steps

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The lesser branches of House Lannister (meaning Genna, and Daven and his sisters, not Kevan's surviving children - they are too young) cannot dare to try to usurp/take Casterly Rock. Cersei Lannister still is Lady of Casterly Rock, and if she was to die, her son Tommen Baratheon would be King of Westeros, Lord of Storm's End, Lord of Dragonstone, and Lord of Casterly Rock. He is Cersei's direct heir. Whoever tries to steal Casterly Rock would steal from the King.

This would be not that big a deal if the stealing Lannister would also be Tommen's Regent. But that's not likely right now. Tommen's children will not only inherit the Iron Throne, they will be Lords of Casterly Rock and Lords of Storm's End as well.

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The lesser branches of House Lannister (meaning Genna, and Daven and his sisters, not Kevan's surviving children - they are too young) cannot dare to try to usurp/take Casterly Rock. Cersei Lannister still is Lady of Casterly Rock, and if she was to die, her son Tommen Baratheon would be King of Westeros, Lord of Storm's End, Lord of Dragonstone, and Lord of Casterly Rock. He is Cersei's direct heir. Whoever tries to steal Casterly Rock would steal from the King.

This would be not that big a deal if the stealing Lannister would also be Tommen's Regent. But that's not likely right now. Tommen's children will not only inherit the Iron Throne, they will be Lords of Casterly Rock and Lords of Storm's End as well.

If I'm not mistaken, Martyn Lannister is now Cersei's heir unless/until she designates another. As King, Tommen would inherit the realm as it were and not specific lands and castles. The same can be said of Myrcella. Her lot is/was to be married off to a ruling house for political gain.

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If I'm not mistaken, Martyn Lannister is now Cersei's heir unless/until she designates another. As King, Tommen would inherit the realm as it were and not specific lands and castles. The same can be said of Myrcella. Her lot is/was to be married off to a ruling house for political gain.

You are not mistaken.

I think Varys will murder all the other heirs until Tyrek will be the official heir to Casterly Rock. Huh, Tyrek, he's missing right? No, he's not. Varys has him somewhere. Result: Varys will have Casterly Rock.

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Tommen is heir to Casterly Rock and technically Lord of Dragonstone. Those lordships don't go to the next guys in the line just because Tommen happens to be king. Nor does Myrcella lose her claim just because she is betrothed to Trystane Martell (not to the Iron Throne, and not to Casterly Rock/Storm's End).

King Tommen might decide to bestow these holdings on his kin or loyal subjects, but it's just as likely that he will not bestow them on anyone until he fathered children of his own. It's his decision (or, if Cersei was to die now, the decision of his Regent/Hand/Small Council). Since neither Storm's End or Dragonstone were not yet given to anyone via royal decree (as was Brightwater Keep, for instance), I guess the Lannister administration (Tywin, Cersei) intended to keep those holdings property of the Iron Throne until Joffrey/Tommen got older.

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Tommen is heir to Casterly Rock and technically Lord of Dragonstone. Those lordships don't go to the next guys in the line just because Tommen happens to be king. Nor does Myrcella lose her claim just because she is betrothed to Trystane Martell (not to the Iron Throne, and not to Casterly Rock/Storm's End).

King Tommen might decide to bestow these holdings on his kin or loyal subjects, but it's just as likely that he will not bestow them on anyone until he fathered children of his own. It's his decision (or, if Cersei was to die now, the decision of his Regent/Hand/Small Council). Since neither Storm's End or Dragonstone were not yet given to anyone via royal decree (as was Brightwater Keep, for instance), I guess the Lannister administration (Tywin, Cersei) intended to keep those holdings property of the Iron Throne until Joffrey/Tommen got older.

I agree with Dragonstone as it is a royal holding directly. Robert was able to give Storm's End to Renly b/c it was in his direct possession. The Rock and the West will pass to a Lannister (Martyn unless Cersei attainted for treason or bares another son).

Anyway, it will all become moot once Jaime and Cersei are exposed. Tommen and Myrcella will receive nothing as the bastards that they are.

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Yeah, if the incest is revealed, they will get nothing. But if it is not, and if King Tommen should still sit the Iron Throne at the end of this series, with Cersei and Tyrion dead, he would not only be King, he would also be Lord of Dragonstone, Lord of Storm's End, and Lord of Casterly Rock. Unless he bestows some of these holdings on other people.

Holdings pass through the females line if all the males are dead or unable to inherit (Jaime, Tyrion). If Tommen and Myrcella would die childless, Kevan's children would indeed be next in line, after them Genna and her grandchildren (Cleos Frey's children - who would, of course, style themselves Lannisters not Freys in this situation). After them Daven and his sister, then Damion Lannister, and after him, if GRRM has not omitted some Lannisters, Lady Margot and her children.

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Yeah, if the incest is revealed, they will get nothing. But if it is not, and if King Tommen should still sit the Iron Throne at the end of this series, with Cersei and Tyrion dead, he would not only be King, he would also be Lord of Dragonstone, Lord of Storm's End, and Lord of Casterly Rock. Unless he bestows some of these holdings on other people.

Holdings pass through the females line if all the males are dead or unable to inherit (Jaime, Tyrion). If Tommen and Myrcella would die childless, Kevan's children would indeed be next in line, after them Genna and her grandchildren (Cleos Frey's children - who would, of course, style themselves Lannisters not Freys in this situation). After them Daven and his sister, then Damion Lannister, and after him, if GRRM has not omitted some Lannisters, Lady Margot and her children.

The royal seats are King's landing (and the Red Keep) and Dragonstone. The royals are not considered in direct lines of succession of the other houses. Tommen is not Cersei's heir, he is Roberts.

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The royals can, of course, claim other seats as well, if they are entitled to them. If Willas, Garlan, and Mace would die, Margaery would inherit Highgarden, and her son by Tommen (if he would father him) would inherit the Realm, Casterly Rock, Storm's End, Dragonstone, and Highgarden. Just as Sansa's children by Joffrey (or Willas) could have been King, Lord of Winterfell, Lord of Highgarden, Lord of Casterly Rock etc.

Theoretically such accumulation of titles would be spread to the children/siblings, but this would be the decision of the king in question. There is no legal authority in Westeros who could stop Tommen from keeping all his holdings for himself.

As to Daven, I already mentioned he would be in line after Genna's children, since he seems to be the less removed cousin of the Lannister siblings (his father being first cousin to Lord Tywin). Daemion (the castellan of Casterly Rock) and Lady Margot (the wife of Lord Peake) are more distant cousins.

Warden of the West is just a title. In itself it is worth nothing when the line of succession is concerned. Cersei named him Warden when she was Queen Regent. The Iron Throne appoints and fires Wardens. And Damion became castellan of Casterly Rock because Cersei chose him as Lady of Casterly Rock to see over it in her absence.

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  • 8 months later...

I have no doubt Varys wants Cersei as regent, because she weakens the kingdom and makes it easier to attack and win, both at the highest levels by destroying high level allies, and at the lowest, by priming the people for rebellion. By the time Cersei's done with them, they'll be strewing flowers in the path of anyone who'll come invade them and rescue them from Cersei.

Which definitely plays into the Illyrio/Varys conspiracies about fomenting a war that was mentioned in the first book. They're smoothing the way for Aegon's claim. It also would work well for Daenerys to have the smallfolk in open rebellion when she arrives — and Meereen was definitely quite the learning experience in leadership — but, of course, Illyrio didn't think she would survive long among the Dothraki, so I think this points again to Illyrio and Varys conspiring to put Aegon on the throne. (I seriously doubt that they care if he's actually Aegon, or they may know that he isn't, but he can pass and that's what they want.)

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The Tyrells simply hold all the cards at the moment. Mace still has a huge army in King's Landing, control of the small council, no lions left to oppose him and the love of the small folk. Even if Cersei emerges victorious from her trial she still lacks to manpower to bring Mace to heel, and more importantly, she has lost the respect of the realm.

There is really nothing to stop Mace from seizing total control as he now controls the king. That is unless Cersei sends Ser Robert Strong to shorten a few heads.

the high septon holds mace by the balls(the trial remember)

Hahaha this is true, but I remind you that YG is in Westeros right now on the advice of Tyrion, who he got along with rather nicely, and Tyrion was even more closely related (generationally speaking) to everyone you mentioned. ;)

I reckon the major roadblock in my Myrcella-YG pairing is Auntie D, but YG is impulsive enough and Dany is slow enough that this may prove a smaller obstacle than currently perceived.

I don't think aegon is that impulsive. and concerning mariage his bachelorhood will be most likey kept a secret

But, Littlefinger and Sansa...I think that is the really goal of him.

I think Aegon will move against LF

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if tommen is king the contenders for the regency will be Cersei, Margery and Mace. Since the Small Council has the authority to name the Regent I believe a Tyrell controlled SC will name either Mace or Margery. Cersei will try to do something to break the Tyrells power . but what ? she doesnt have the manpower for a coup like with Ned so its assassination or defamation ? will she try to kill Mace or Margery or will she try to get Margery framed again ?

but then ....will Margery survive HER trial ? suppose Cersei is found innocent but Margery is found guilty what then for Mace Tyrell?

and what happens if Tommen dies ? then the throne goes to Myrcella. . . who is under the control of the Martells.

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Varys is the wildcard. He can expose Tommen's true parentage at any time. I think he holding that little bombshell until he feels Aegon is ready to make his move on Kings Landing. Varys is likely hoping that the trial will do for Cersei and in turn delegitimize Tommen. But if not, he will have still have an ace in the hole.

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Varys is the wildcard. He can expose Tommen's true parentage at any time.

I'm not sure how Varys would expose this though ? its not like he has DNA and video. It'll essentially be his word against the Lannister and Tyrells. showing up with a couple of bastards wouldnt prove anything either .just that tommen took after his mom rather than his dad.

However if exposed that would provide the Faith with the reason to declare Aegon the rightful king since Tommen is not the king's son and Stannis is a heretic.

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Well, perhaps Varys has captured Tyrek Lannister to have a witness who can confirm that Jaime and Cersei are lover, and that Cersei's children are Jaime's? We don't know if the boy has overheard or seen something he should not have heard. This would more sense than to assume Tyrek is supposed to become a claimant to Casterly Rock under King Aegon. The boy is too far done the line of succession. And Varys has recruited Tyrion to the purpose.

But anyway, Varys has been there all the time Cersei's and Jaime's affair has gone on during Robert's reign. It is ridiculous to assume that he had not every opportunity to gather conclusive proof about this whole thing. Look how subtly he used this whole Tyrion-Shae-thing to his advantage.

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Well, perhaps Varys has captured Tyrek Lannister to have a witness who can confirm that Jaime and Cersei are lover, and that Cersei's children are Jaime's? We don't know if the boy has overheard or seen something he should not have heard. This would more sense than to assume Tyrek is supposed to become a claimant to Casterly Rock under King Aegon. The boy is too far done the line of succession. And Varys has recruited Tyrion to the purpose.

But anyway, Varys has been there all the time Cersei's and Jaime's affair has gone on during Robert's reign. It is ridiculous to assume that he had not every opportunity to gather conclusive proof about this whole thing. Look how subtly he used this whole Tyrion-Shae-thing to his advantage.

He can also use the same proof that Ned and Jon Arryn used. That book of the Great Houses of Westeros is like a DNA guide. That plus the bastards equal some pretty strong evidence.

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