Aeron Greyjoy molested?

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

Wow I just read this thread....very deep. And I feel really dumb for missing it as well.

I'll be shocked though if its true and even more disturbed by Euron who I find kinda charming in a weird way. At least from a looks viewpoint.

[Patchface12]

Something similar involving Joffrey and Tommen was hinted at when Tommen got sick at Tywin's funeral.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Ok, then what's your explanation for the fact that when he's thinking about Euron Damphair repeatedly associates his brother with someone opening the door to his childhood bedroom (and he calls it a "screaming hinge", BTW, more than once)? It's not definitive, but I think he - and probably his dead younger brother - was the victim of sexual abuse at Euron's hands. The evidence: 1 - he hates Euron 2 - he doesn't just fear Euron, Damphair all but collapses around him. This from a very strong willed man, from whom I have seen no evidence that he's afraid of anything else. 3 - he continually links Euron to the opening of the door of the room he shared in childhood with his brother, and that memory is a very fearful one. 4 - he identifies his inability to stand up to Euron with his pre-conversion self, who he links to weakness and femininity. 5 - he repeatedly tries to beat back his feelings of fear of Euron - again, always associated with the hinge of his childhood bedroom - with his faith. He's trying to convince himself that the child who was victimized is dead, and that now he's a different person. 6 - It doesn't seem out of character for Euron who is a self admitted rapist who has compared his own offspring to excrement. It fits. IMO non-sexual violence doesn't fit as well because of the shame, the disassociation with his prior identity and his linking his weakness with feminine traits.

Maybe.... Its certainly possible, I could see Euron doing this just to fuck with and eliminate him a potential future rival Aeron. And having been you and impressionable himself Euron perhaps hadn't overcome his fear of kinslaying yet.

"Whichever of my sons inherits the sulta's throne, it behooves him to kill his brothers in the interest of the world order"

-Mehmed II,

Sultan: Ottoman Empire

That being said, pedophiles and rapists are generally two distinct populations. And we haven't actually seen Euron rape anyone. We merely heard about it in his Kingsmoot speech. Given the nature of the Iron Born, expecting someone to run for President there without throwing a few rapes into their speech is like expecting a Republican to run in America without promising to lower taxes or a Democrat without mentioning a woman's right to choose.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Wow I just read this thread....very deep. And I feel really dumb for missing it as well. I'll be shocked though if its true and even more disturbed by Euron who I find kinda charming in a weird way. At least from a looks viewpoint.

In a weird way? He's a magnificent bastard http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagnificentBastard

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

It' subtle. He's falls asleep on horseback as he's leaving Goodbrother's castle: There may be other references as well. When Aeron dreams of the room Urri is in it, and Urri didn't survive to adulthood. It's not definitive, but it suggests that Urri and Aeron shared this room when they were boys.

wait a minute....maybe it was Urri?

Joff also had Tommen's pet fawn skinned and turned into a Jerkin. Ugh. To add to the Euron / Damphair theory, Victarion tells the Maester who complains that he has been used as a woman that he should defend himself. Again highlighting femininity and weakness and victim blaming as part of male rape.

I wouldn't call it blaming. That presume Victarion thinks there's something wrong with what's happening to Maester Kerwin. When in fact Victarion threatens to tie Kerwin to the rail and make the crew a gift of his arse.

[James Arryn]

Yeah, it's a aspect I personally hope remains sub-textual.

[Eejit]

That being said, pedophiles and rapists are generally two distinct populations.

Isn't child molestation (of the most extreme kinds) automatically rape? They're minors.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Isn't child molestation (of the most extreme kinds) automatically rape? They're minors.

Yes, what I meant is that people who rape adults and people who rape children are generally distinct groups.

[Mumatil]

As for the door-hinge thing, the impression I got was that Aeron somehow connected it to what happened to Urri with Euron factoring in some manner.

I thought this as well, maybe Euron went in to finish the job or maybe the reason Aeron messed up at the finger dance was because Euron might have slammed the squeaky door open and Aeron hesistated and missed the throw cutting Urris hand in half.

And then Euron smiles at Aeron and slowly closes the squeaking iron hinge of the door.

But that's just guessing, and people jumping to the conclusion of rape is really crackpot.

Hes a priest....he got raped as a child.....all religious figures are raped or do the raping.....of course.... :P

The people who think the raping is evident by Euron probably think Joff raped Tommen as well. But its probably Joff just being a violent phycopath and not a sexual one.

[Lummel]

I thought this as well, maybe Euron went in to finish the job or maybe the reason Aeron messed up at the finger dance was because Euron might have slammed the squeaky door open and Aeron hesistated and missed the throw cutting Urris hand in half.

And then Euron smiles at Aeron and slowly closes the squeaking iron hinge of the door.

But that's just guessing, and people jumping to the conclusion of rape is really crackpot...

Not really crackpot because Aeron's reaction to Euron is so extreme as per post #20:

Ok, then what's your explanation for the fact that when he's thinking about Euron Damphair repeatedly associates his brother with someone opening the door to his childhood bedroom (and he calls it a "screaming hinge", BTW, more than once)?

It's not definitive, but I think he - and probably his dead younger brother - was the victim of sexual abuse at Euron's hands. The evidence:

1 - he hates Euron

2 - he doesn't just fear Euron, Damphair all but collapses around him. This from a very strong willed man, from whom I have seen no evidence that he's afraid of anything else.

3 - he continually links Euron to the opening of the door of the room he shared in childhood with his brother, and that memory is a very fearful one.

4 - he identifies his inability to stand up to Euron with his pre-conversion self, who he links to weakness and femininity.

5 - he repeatedly tries to beat back his feelings of fear of Euron - again, always associated with the hinge of his childhood bedroom - with his faith. He's trying to convince himself that the child who was victimized is dead, and that now he's a different person.

6 - It doesn't seem out of character for Euron who is a self admitted rapist who has compared his own offspring to excrement...

if not sexual abuse then you've got to be looking for something that is going to have a similar extreme and lasting impact on Aeron psychologically that has him running away from Euron thinking that he has been unmanned by him thirty to fourty years afer the event.

[Mumatil]

Where exactly does it say he shared a room with Urri?

Does it always have to be rape, why not some other form of torture?

[Fragile Bird]

Certainly one of the most common things you read about or hear in interviews with molested children, either male or female, is their fear of some sound or instruction that signals another bout of molestation. The sound of footsteps on the stairs up to their room, the turning of a lock, the casual phrase, I'll see you tonight, and the creaking hinge and the fear he has fits in with the classic signs of the memories of a molested child.

[Howlin' Howland Reed]

Yeah, it's a aspect I personally hope remains sub-textual.

I think many of the things we discuss on this forum will remain sub-textual, forever. It doesn't seem likely that any character will explicitly say that Loras and Renly were lovers, for instance. If Sandor never rejoins the cast of active characters, I don't think anyone in the books will go "hey, character X, did you know that Sandor Clegane is totally hanging out on the QI?" I personally like the idea of some mysteries remaining (and like you, I'd be more than fine if we don't get all the details for this particular one...).

Even though I personally believe that Aeron was molested, it's enough for GRRM to make the readers aware of Aeron being afraid of Euron without going into details.

ETA:

Certainly one of the most common things you read about or hear in interviews with molested children, either male or female, is their fear of some sound or instruction that signals another bout of molestation. The sound of footsteps on the stairs up to their room, the turning of a lock, the casual phrase, I'll see you tonight, and the creaking hinge and the fear he has fits in with the classic signs of the memories of a molested child.

That's absolutely horrifying, but also something I can see GRRM having heard of.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Not really crackpot because Aeron's reaction to Euron is so extreme as per post #20: if not sexual abuse then you've got to be looking for something that is going to have a similar extreme and lasting impact on Aeron psychologically that has him running away from Euron thinking that he has been unmanned by him thirty to fourty years afer the event.

Well that's a given. The Iron Born children beat the shit out of their siblings. Or at least the the Greyjoys do.

“Never mind that the bell has been rung just once in three hundred years,” Patrek had told Theon the day after, as he shared his father’s cautions and a jug of green-apple wine.

“When my brother stormed Seagard,”

Theon said. Lord Jason had slain Rodrik Greyjoy under the walls of the castle, and thrown the ironmen back into the bay. “

If your father supposes I bear him some enmity for that, it’s only because he never knew Rodrik.

”

“There is no shame in that. A lord must protect his smallfolk.

Cruel places breed cruel peoples

, Bran, remember that as you deal with these ironmen.

Your lord father did what he could to gentle Theon

,

but I fear it was too little and too late.”

Theon led the way up the stairs. I have climbed these steps a thousand times before.

As a boy he would run up; descending, he would take the steps three at a time, leaping. Once he leapt right into Old Nan and knocked her to the floor.

That earned him the worst thrashing he ever had at Winterfell

,

though it was almost tender compared to the beatings his brothers used to give him back on Pyke

.

He and Robb had fought many a heroic battle on these steps, slashing at one another with wooden swords. Good training, that; it brought home how hard it was to fight your way up a spiral stair against determined opposition. Ser Rodrik liked to say that one good man could hold a hundred, fighting down.

[Patchface12]

I'm not sure how a rusty hinge relates to rape. Maybe Aeron had a dog or cat as a boy and Euron killed it via slamming its head to death with a door. Given everything else he's done, I wouldn't put killing a domestic animal for kicks and giggles past Euron.

[James Arryn]

I'm not sure how a rusty hinge relates to rape. Maybe Aeron had a dog or cat as a boy and Euron killed it via slamming its head to death with a door. Given everything else he's done, I wouldn't put killing a domestic animal for kicks and giggles past Euron.

The assumption that its rape is imo partly premised on how uneventful other types of violence would seem to a boy from the islands.

[Patchface12]

The assumption that its rape is imo partly premised on how uneventful other types of violence would seem to a boy from the islands.

So Damphair would be completely indifferent if Euron murdered one of his pets?

[James Arryn]

So Damphair would be completely indifferent if Euron murdered one of his pets?

I don't think he'd be haunted by it decades later, no.

[Fred Stark]

I feel so dumb for not realising it ... I just realise something....remember in the last Victarion chapter,before Victarion is asked by Euron to bring Daenerys,Euron was naked and Victarion was disturbed and uncomfortable and he asked Euron to wear his robe(nudity is common in Westeros,so it was weird that Victarion was disturbed),which indicate Euron maybe tried to rape Victarion too but he defended himself,which reminded me another victarion POV where he said to the maester who is used as a women in the ship and he told to him that he should defend himself

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

I feel so dumb for not realising it ... I just realise something....remember in the last Victarion chapter,before Victarion is asked by Euron to bring Daenerys,Euron was naked and Victarion was disturbed and uncomfortable and he asked Euron to wear his robe(nudity is common in Westeros,so it was weird that Victarion was disturbed),which indicate Euron maybe tried to rape Victarion too but he defended himself,which reminded me another victarion POV where he said to the maester who is used as a women in the ship and he told to him that he should defend himself

No I don't think so. and nudity isn't that common. I think its the casual insolence of it that disturbs Victarion. Euron's torture for Vic was banging his salt-wife. I'm still not convinced is molestation, its certainly something fucked up, but whether its that or not, I don't know. I just wonder what Euron did to Balon, or what Balon did to him. Balon seems to be the only one Euron didn't have under his thumb.