Gurkhal Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 No I don't think so. and nudity isn't that common. I think its the casual insolence of it that disturbs Victarion. Euron's torture for Vic was banging his salt-wife. I'm still not convinced is molestation, its certainly something fucked up, but whether its that or not, I don't know. I just wonder what Euron did to Balon, or what Balon did to him. Balon seems to be the only one Euron didn't have under his thumb.Well maybe it was as simple as that Balon was the older brother and thus physical capable of defending himself from Euron as long as they lived together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Certainly one of the most common things you read about or hear in interviews with molested children, either male or female, is their fear of some sound or instruction that signals another bout of molestation. The sound of footsteps on the stairs up to their room, the turning of a lock, the casual phrase, I'll see you tonight, and the creaking hinge and the fear he has fits in with the classic signs of the memories of a molested child.Or a torture victim, I bet. BTW, Cersei now hates, is afraid of, and obsessed with Tyrion, way beyond how Greyjoy siblings feel about one another. Even though they have no sexual history of any kind. Why so many people automatically assume that there's no form of abuse besides sexual, and if a character is emotionally scarred, it for sure is a result of rape? Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brienne the Beauty Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Or a torture victim, I bet. BTW, Cersei now hates, is afraid of, and obsessed with Tyrion, way beyond how Greyjoy siblings feel about one another. Even though they have no sexual history of any kind. Why so many people automatically assume that there's no form of abuse besides sexual, and if a character is emotionally scarred, it for sure is a result of rape? Seriously.The thing is, we don't assume it about every character. It does seem to be heavily implied with Aeron.It also shows us that Euron is not what might be romanticised as a "magnificent bastard" but more like Joffrey with brains. There is some tendency among ASOIAF fans to romanticise the Greyjoy brothers as cool badasses, and this sort of thing is meant to undercut that. Euron is a creepy monster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lummel Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 MCB said:Or a torture victim, I bet. BTW, Cersei now hates, is afraid of, and obsessed with Tyrion, way beyond how Greyjoy siblings feel about one another. Even though they have no sexual history of any kind. Why so many people automatically assume that there's no form of abuse besides sexual, and if a character is emotionally scarred, it for sure is a result of rape? Seriously.Because physical torture is easier to spot than sexual abuse in a child - particularly a child in a Lord's household were there were servants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Littlefinger's Lash Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Well maybe it was as simple as that Balon was the older brother and thus physical capable of defending himself from Euron as long as they lived together? Certainly Victarion was physically capable of defending himself against Euron. Nor do I think Euron was overcome with love for Victarion's saltwife. Euron plays mind games. As far as we've seen he's rarely if ever employed physical force, himself. The Lord of oakenshield, Victarion, Aeron. Euron is the one drawing up the plan or manipulating others. If he molested Aeron, that would be the reason why, I would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Littlefinger's Lash Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 MCB said: Because physical torture is easier to spot than sexual abuse in a child - particularly a child in a Lord's household were there were servants. eee.... not on the Iron Islands where siblings who like one another are chopping off each others fingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Littlefinger's Lash Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 The thing is, we don't assume it about every character. It does seem to be heavily implied with Aeron. It also shows us that Eur :pirate: n is not what might be romanticised as a "magnificent bastard" but more like Joffrey with brains. There is some tendency among ASOIAF fans to romanticise the Greyjoy brothers as cool badasses, and this sort of thing is meant to undercut that. Eur :pirate: n is a creepy monster. No he still qualifies as a magnificent bastard. I don't think Eur :pirate: n is going around hurting people for no reason, or molesting children on a regular basis. That's why I included that quote:"Whichever of my sons inherits the sulta's throne, it behooves him to kill his brothers in the interest of the world order"-Mehmed II, Sultan: Ottoman Empire Eur :pirate: n wouldn't even make a top 100 list for Roman/Byzantine Emperors, in terms of cruelty based on what we've seen so far. I don't know that he did molest Aeron but he certainly did something horrible to him that gave Eur :pirate: n the ability to intimidate Aeron for the rest of his life. Asha's Esgred, rouse on Theon accomplished a similar objective, to humiliate Theon and eliminate him as a potential rival. :dunno: Que Sera Sera. For someone to make it onto my No-Fly list, they need to be malicious without reason or for the sake of being malicious. Elsewise, all is fair in the Game of Thrones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 The thing is, we don't assume it about every character. It does seem to be heavily implied with Aeron.Well, that's my point: it actually does not. What I see is jumping to conclusion: "Damphair fears Euron? probably because of rape"; "Tommen was scared of Joffrey? rape!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 No he still qualifies as a magnificent bastard. I don't think Eur :pirate: n is going around hurting people for no reason, or molesting children on a regular basis. That's why I included that quote: "Whichever of my sons inherits the sulta's throne, it behooves him to kill his brothers in the interest of the world order"-Mehmed II, Sultan: Ottoman EmpireEur :pirate: n wouldn't even make a top 100 list for Roman/Byzantine Emperors, in terms of cruelty based on what we've seen so far. I don't know that he did molest Aeron but he certainly did something horrible to him that gave Eur :pirate: n the ability to intimidate Aeron for the rest of his life. Asha's Esgred, rouse on Theon accomplished a similar objective, to humiliate Theon and eliminate him as a potential rival. :dunno: Que Sera Sera.For someone to make it onto my No-Fly list, they need to be malicious without reason or for the sake of being malicious. Elsewise, all is fair in the Game of Thrones.Er, the Ottomans killed all the heir's brothers pro-forma, which had less to do with 'wisdom/brutality with which others could be compared' and more to do with the particular political set-up of the Harem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lummel Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 mcb said:Well, that's my point: it actually does not. What I see is jumping to conclusion: "Damphair fears Euron? probably because of rape"; "Tommen was scared of Joffrey? rape!".The assumption is sexual abuse, not necessarily rape. It's also about context - Aeron remembers Urri loosing his fingers, having them sown back on and then having to have his arm sawn off but the memory of that, which by anybody else's standards would be pretty horrific, doesn't disturb him in anyway like the memory of that hinge and doesn't frighten him anywhere near the experience of simply being in Euron's presence frightens him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Littlefinger's Lash Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Er, the Ottomans killed all the heir's brothers pro-forma, which had less to do with 'wisdom/brutality with which others could be compared' and more to do with the particular political set-up of the Harem. I thought it was that all brothers were pari passu with respect to order of inheritance. Anyway, it doesn't matter. It was expedient to do so, the reason why is irrelevant. The fact that they did is what matter. So to do we see that Eur :pirate: n's brothers' fear of him is exceptionally useful to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Because physical torture is easier to spot than sexual abuse in a child - particularly a child in a Lord's household were there were servants.Yes, physical torture would be easier to spot. And it most certainly would be ignored. They're the Ironborn! "Daddy, Euron broke my arm in three places and set my hair on fire!" "Don't be a pussy, son! By Drowned God, are you a little girl, or a ten-year-old man?".The assumption is sexual abuse, not necessarily rape. It's also about context - Aeron remembers Urri loosing his fingers, having them sown back on and then having to have his arm sawn off but the memory of that, which by anybody else's standards would be pretty horrific, doesn't disturb him in anyway like the memory of that hinge and doesn't frighten him anywhere near the experience of simply being in Euron's presence frightens him.OK. Not "rape", "sexual abuse". I stand corrected.Still, the point stands: very scary must equal sexual. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lummel Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 In this case - as you point out yourself - because of the iron islanders. They are brutal and chop each other about. Damphair even remembers such brutal and isn't disturbed by it so the memory of whatever experience is trigger by the rusty hinge or the presence of Euron has to be something extremely intense and extremely disturbing and we know that simple physical abuse would not be enough to trigger that kind of intense reaction in the Damphair.Tommen, dunno. That could, in my opinion, just be your standard nasty sibling bullying. I don't think there is any reason to believe that it had a sexual component. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brienne the Beauty Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Still, the point stands: very scary must equal sexual. Why?I think we are led to believe this, although it is not spelled out. It may turn out to be something else, possibly a supernatural evil - something to do with Euron's "Crow's Eye"?For the reasons Lummel pointed out, it can't be physical bullying, because any physical bullying that didn't leave Aeron a cripple would be completely par for the course with the Greyjoy family. And Aeron is physically fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faceless Sam Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 I wouldn't worry about that, this theory isn't based on anyting in the books except1. Aeron hates and fears Euron2. Creaky hingeIts a pretty big leap to assume he was molested by his brother. well, whatever euron did to him after entering through the creaky door is of course up to our imagination, but we do know it freaking terrifies him to this day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hear Us Roar Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Well, that's my point: it actually does not. What I see is jumping to conclusion: "Damphair fears Euron? probably because of rape"; "Tommen was scared of Joffrey? rape!".i agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Littlefinger's Lash Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 well, whatever euron did to him after entering through the creaky door is of course up to our imagination, but we do know it freaking terrifies him to this day. maybe Eur :pirate: n water boarded him. What is dead can never die, but rises again, harder and stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 I think we are led to believe this, although it is not spelled out. It may turn out to be something else, possibly a supernatural evil - something to do with Euron's "Crow's Eye"?For the reasons Lummel pointed out, it can't be physical bullying, because any physical bullying that didn't leave Aeron a cripple would be completely par for the course with the Greyjoy family. And Aeron is physically fine.Actually, it could be physical bullying, if Euron was inventive enough about this. Or it could be something else. Hannibal Lecter made his prison mate kill himself just by talking to him - maybe Euron possessed similar talents, and used Aeron as his test audience. Yes, whatever Euron has done to Aeron, it obviously was way more sinister than just punching his brother in the nose every night. But no reason to assume that this "something" must be of sexual nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DornishKnight Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 maybe Eur :pirate: n water boarded him. What is can never died, but rises again, harder and stronger.That would explain A LOT actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brienne the Beauty Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Water-boarding is one of their holy rituals! That is why the Ironmen are badass :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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