Aeron Greyjoy molested?

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

My alternate take on it is that Euron's "Crow's Eye" is some sort of dark magic, that he is something other than merely human. Not much evidence for this so far.

Well we know he's drinking shade of the evening, we know he has some relationship with the faceless men or is one, he may well have been visited by Blood Raven. There's plenty there.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Lol, come on, I'm agreeing with you on your major thesis!

well i think its clear he's not a pedophile, so I already felt well justified in the thesis.

Further, when we see that virtually every lord on the Iron Islands is incredibly deferential to Aeron, yet Euron maintains power over him. It seems like a smart strategic move on Euron's part. Compare that to Ramsay's killing of his brother or Gregors, mutilation of his. Both actions earn them inveterate foes.

[Mumatil]

It doesn't 'always' have to be sexual.

In Aeron's case it is clear that purely physical trauma is highly unlikely to have made such a deep seated and powerful emotional scarring, given the typical physical brutallity that was clearly a fact of everyday life as a Greyjoy sibling.

The waterboarding reference is a joke. These are Greyjoys, waterboarding would be a cross between a fun sport and a religiously significant ritual for them.

The simple fact is that since it is highly unlikely to be a purely physical thing, and the recipient feels entirely "unmanned", not to mention later becomes a priest, it is very likely to be have been a sexual thing.

We also have Victarion's evidence that Euron used sex as a psycological weapon. Not just the treatment of his wife, but the way he talked about it to Victarion afterward.

So we have a victim severely traumatised, but not by something physical, and an abuser who uses sex as a tool for power. Go figure.

In Tommen's case it isn't an assumption of sexual abuse by Joffrey, its a possibility.

Tommen associates "going away inside" with 'torment' by Joffrey. Joffrey is disturbed little sadist, but he is unlikely to have been able to get away with doing anything that left marks on Tommen. And few things that don't leave marks are bad enough to make someone "go away inside", at least as done by a young boy as abuser. And Joffrey's later abuses of Sansa have definite sexual overtunes - he didn't need her stripped naked for beating. So there is a hint there that the abuser has a sexually abusive side. That doesn't mean his torment of Tommen was definitely sexual, but the possibility is definitely hinted at in the text.

Turn it the other way round. Why wouldn't it be sexual (in both or either case)?

The abusers are shown to have disturbed sexuality. The abused are either inured to or safe from serious purely-physical abuse. Why is sexual abuse off the table?

I'm not against it, but it just seems everyone is 100% agreed its sexual. People are assuming.

I'll wait for some actual solid evidence thank you, as for now it could be anything.

Maybe he uses mind games of some sort.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

I'm not against it, but it just seems everyone is 100% agreed its sexual. People are assuming.

I'll wait for some actual solid evidence thank you, as for now it could be anything.

Maybe he uses mind games of some sort.

i said he Euron could have water boarded him.

[corbon]

I'm not against it, but it just seems everyone is 100% agreed its sexual. People are assuming.

I'll wait for some actual solid evidence thank you, as for now it could be anything.

Maybe he uses mind games of some sort.

No, that is the point. It can't have just been anything.

Many (most?) people feel that anything purely physical can be pretty much ruled out. This is due to purely physical trauma being an every-day occurence in the Greyjoy household and culture, so not something to have left such severe and deep seated damage to Aeron, someone who is otherwise as hard and tough as they come.

Mind games? Possible, but doesn't strike me as reasonable. These are a couple of kids. I just can't see such serious damage coming from mind games played by one kid on another, even a teenage kid.

Magic? No. Euron didn't get into mysterious magic shit until after he had been voyaging off to mysterious foreign parts, consorting with sorcerers and drinking their blue-lip brew.

Sexual abuse? It fits all the evidence we have perfectly.

Quoted from Lyanna Stark's post, which seems to have been avoided by the anti-sexual-abuse posters for some reason (perhaps because she put it so well it makes it practically undeniable that sexual abuse is at very least a probability here)...

combine

a. Damphair's extremely strong reaction to Euron

b. the strongly misogynist culture of the Iron Islands

c. their contempt for things they consider "female" and "weak"

Rape is a display of power, and the Iron Islanders clearly see male rape as "being used as a woman" and as a sign of ultimate weakness. Euron sexually assaulting Damphair would mean that he excerted tremendous amounts of power over a helpless child and in a way that was utterly shaming and degrading, unlike having the crap beaten out of you which seems to have been pretty common and nothing to bat an eyelid at.

Aeron's fear of Euron seems to be more than just "he beat the crap out of me" but something more visceral, something that affects the very basis of his personality and identity. If Euron went in for undermining his identity as an (male) Ironborn, subjecting him to rape would be one such action.

So exactly what is the issue with it being sexual abuse? Why not?

I can't take serious the objection that Euron clearly isn't a one-dimensional pedophile - this isn't being done for sexual gratification, its being done for power and the gratification that comes from that, if any.

We don't know it was guaranteed sexual abuse, but it seems very much more likely with the evidence at hand (including cultural, religious and personality/related actions and reactions). I'd go 9:1 odds at least.

i said he Euron could have water boarded him.

I guess you weren't making a joke then.

But I can't take this seriously. It seems like this idea has come out of Aeron's later habits and tendencies as a priest of the Drowned God. But these religious beliefs, ideas, attitudes and duties were around long before Aeron was ever alive and are quite independent. And noticeably he pretty much ignored all these things long after his 'abuse' and was a fairly wild young man who didn't have anything much to do with the religious watery stuff until his boat sank years later during the Greyjoy Rebellion. In other words, his religious leanings now are clearly not directly related to the trauma he sufffered at Euron's hand.

Other than that, I can't see Euron being able to setup waterboarding Aeron in a bedroom Aeron shared with another brother (he could do it perhaps in a room Euron had sole access to, but that wasn't the case), and I'm dubious of the utility of waterboarding vs Iron Islanders anyway. It seems in this culture to be the sort of thing they could do as a game, seeing who can last the longest.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

No, that is the point. It can't have just been anything. Many (most?) people feel that anything purely physical can be pretty much ruled out. This is due to purely physical trauma being an every-day occurence in the Greyjoy household and culture, so not something to have left such severe and deep seated damage to Aeron, someone who is otherwise as hard and tough as they come. Mind games? Possible, but doesn't strike me as reasonable. These are a couple of kids. I just can't see such serious damage coming from mind games played by one kid on another, even a teenage kid. Magic? No. Euron didn't get into mysterious magic shit until after he had been voyaging off to mysterious foreign parts, consorting with sorcerers and drinking their blue-lip brew. Sexual abuse? It fits all the evidence we have perfectly. Quoted from Lyanna Stark's post, which seems to have been avoided by the anti-sexual-abuse posters for some reason (perhaps because she put it so well it makes it practically undeniable that sexual abuse is at very least a probability here)... So exactly what is the issue with it being sexual abuse? Why not? I can't take serious the objection that Euron clearly isn't a one-dimensional pedophile - this isn't being done for sexual gratification, its being done for power and the gratification that comes from that, if any. We don't know it was guaranteed sexual abuse, but it seems very much more likely with the evidence at hand (including cultural, religious and personality/related actions and reactions). I'd go 9:1 odds at least. I guess you weren't making a joke then. But I can't take this seriously. It seems like this idea has come out of Aeron's later habits and tendencies as a priest of the Drowned God. But these religious beliefs, ideas, attitudes and duties were around long before Aeron was ever alive and are quite independent. And noticeably he pretty much ignored all these things long after his 'abuse' and was a fairly wild young man who didn't have anything much to do with the religious watery stuff until his boat sank years later during the Greyjoy Rebellion. In other words, his religious leanings now are clearly not directly related to the trauma he sufffered at Euron's hand. Other than that, I can't see Euron being able to setup waterboarding Aeron in a bedroom Aeron shared with another brother (he could do it perhaps in a room Euron had sole access to, but that wasn't the case), and I'm dubious of the utility of waterboarding vs Iron Islanders anyway. It seems in this culture to be the sort of thing they could do as a game, seeing who can last the longest.

They have the greatest fear of drowning, being a sea faring people who wear armor. There's nothing to say Euron kept Aeron in his bedroom, on that the door opened with a creaking hinge. Actually, what made me think of it was the american NBC drama, The Firm, which I happened to watch last weekend and a woman was water boarded on it. Anyway, it was just an allusion to psychological torture of a nonphysical nature.

[corbon]

They have the greatest fear of drowning, being a sea faring people who wear armor.

I think this is the opposite of the truth. The don't fear death by drowning, which is why they are happy to wear armour at sea. And why they respect the few mainlanders who do wear armour at sea (respect being a relative word here). Victarions' fight with some armour-wearing lord on a boat being pertinent here. Also pertinent their religious rituals which include death by drowning!

What is dead may never die but rises again harder and stronger.

Care to come up with some quotes to back up this (weird?) claim that the Ironborn fear death by drowning most?

[Valkyrja]

I don't get the Euron-love some folk seem to have...... :dunno:

From the very first moment he appeared in the series, I found him to be terrifying. Everything about him is dark to me....definitely not bad-ass in an appealing, rouge-ish way.

In light of the just plain horrifying vibe I got from Euron, the Damphair's fear of him and the creaking door flashbacks immediately made me think that Euron had come into his room at night and abused him as a child. Abuse of what nature obviously is not specified, but to me it seemed really obvious.....and disturbing.

I don't like Victarion all that much either, but he is not nearly as terrifying to me as the Crows-Eye. :eek:

[DornishKnight]

I don't get the Euron-love some folk seem to have...... :dunno:

From the very first moment he appeared in the series, I found him to be terrifying. Everything about him is dark to me....definitely not bad-ass in an appealing, rouge-ish way.

In light of the just plain horrifying vibe I got from Euron, the Damphair's fear of him and the creaking door flashbacks immediately made me think that Euron had come into his room at night and abused him as a child. Abuse of what nature obviously is not specified, but to me it seemed really obvious.....and disturbing.

I don't like Victarion all that much either, but he is not nearly as terrifying to me as the Crows-Eye. :eek:

That's the point. He is a genuinely terrifying and effective villain. Probably the most effective one yet.

[Lyanna Stark]

I guess you weren't making a joke then.

But I can't take this seriously. It seems like this idea has come out of Aeron's later habits and tendencies as a priest of the Drowned God. But these religious beliefs, ideas, attitudes and duties were around long before Aeron was ever alive and are quite independent. And noticeably he pretty much ignored all these things long after his 'abuse' and was a fairly wild young man who didn't have anything much to do with the religious watery stuff until his boat sank years later during the Greyjoy Rebellion. In other words, his religious leanings now are clearly not directly related to the trauma he sufffered at Euron's hand.

Other than that, I can't see Euron being able to setup waterboarding Aeron in a bedroom Aeron shared with another brother (he could do it perhaps in a room Euron had sole access to, but that wasn't the case), and I'm dubious of the utility of waterboarding vs Iron Islanders anyway. It seems in this culture to be the sort of thing they could do as a game, seeing who can last the longest.

Plus we never get the feeling from the Ironborn that what they fear as a threat to their identity and the underpinnings of their strength and manliness is drowning. In fact as you point out, it's a part of their religion so already a part of their identity and sense of self.

What Damphair feels seems to be something alien to that identity, something that diminishes him and makes him feel a strong overwhelming fear. Euron sexually abusing Damphair makes more sense in this context than waterboarding.

[Lummel]

Nor does Aeron ever associate his feelings of fear and of being unmanned with water, in fact he seems quite happy to be in and around water.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

They have the greatest fear of drowning, being a sea faring people who wear armor. There's nothing to say Euron kept Aeron in his bedroom, on that the door opened with a creaking hinge. Actually, what made me think of it was the american NBC drama, The Firm, which I happened to watch last weekend and a woman was water boarded on it. Anyway, it was just an allusion to psychological torture of a nonphysical nature.

I was merely pointing out that there are alternative means by which Aeron could be made so fearful. As in all cases where there is no conclusive evidence, I reserve judgement as to the definitive actions one character can be said to have taken. Did Petyr influence Joffrey into beheading Ned Stark? I do not know. There's no evidence that he did. However, Petyr would be extremely foolish to have let Ned live to tell the tale of Petyr's double cross. Yet, Joffrey is capable of spontaneous cruelty. So we cannot say with certainty.

Such is the case with Euron. I do not believe him incapable of such an act but there are other plausible explanations.

Nor does Aeron ever associate his feelings of fear and of being unmanned with water, in fact he seems quite happy to be in and around water.

Plus we never get the feeling from the Ironborn that what they fear as a threat to their identity and the underpinnings of their strength and manliness is drowning. In fact as you point out, it's a part of their religion so already a part of their identity and sense of self. What Damphair feels seems to be something alien to that identity, something that diminishes him and makes him feel a strong overwhelming fear. Euron sexually abusing Damphair makes more sense in this context than waterboarding.

I think this is the opposite of the truth. The don't fear death by drowning, which is why they are happy to wear armour at sea. And why they respect the few mainlanders who do wear armour at sea (respect being a relative word here). Victarions' fight with some armour-wearing lord on a boat being pertinent here. Also pertinent their religious rituals which include death by drowning! What is dead may never die but rises again harder and stronger. Care to come up with some quotes to back up this (weird?) claim that the Ironborn fear death by drowning most?

Not most in magnitude but most in frequency.

“Robb says the man died bravely, but Jon says he was afraid.”

“What do you think?” his father asked.

Bran thought about it.

“Can a man still be brave if he’s afraid?”

“That is the only time a man can be brave,”

his father told him.

The first three men had offered their lives to the Drowned God fearlessly, but the fourth was weak in faith and began to struggle as his lungs cried out for air. Standing waist-deep in the surf, Aeron seized the naked boy by the shoulders and pushed his head back down as he tried to snatch a breath. “Have courage,” he said. “We came from the sea, and to the sea we must return. Open your mouth and drink deep of god’s blessing. Fill your lungs with water, that you may die and be reborn. It does no good to fight.”

Either the boy could not hear him with his head beneath the waves, or else his faith had utterly deserted him. He began to kick and thrash so wildly that Aeron had to call for help. Four of his drowned men waded out to seize the wretch and hold him underwater. “Lord God who drowned for us,” the priest prayed, in a voice as deep as the sea, “let Emmond your servant be reborn from the sea, as you were. Bless him with salt, bless him with stone, bless him with steel.”

Only then did the priest turn to the three riders, watching from their saddles. “Have you come to be drowned, my lords?”

The Sparr coughed. “I was drowned as a boy,” he said, “and my son upon his name day.”

Aeron snorted. That Steffarion Sparr had been given to the Drowned God soon after birth he had no doubt. He knew the manner of it too

, a quick dip into a tub of seawater that scarce wet the infant’s head.

Small wonder the ironborn had been conquered, they who once held sway everywhere the sound of waves was heard. “That is no true drowning,” he told the riders. “He that does not die in truth cannot hope to rise from death. Why have you come, if not to prove your faith?”

“Ironborn must not spill the blood of ironborn.”

“A pious sentiment, Damphair,” said Goodbrother, “but not one that your brother shares. He had Sawane Botley drowned for saying that the Seastone Chair by rights belonged to Theon.”

“If he was drowned, no blood was shed,” said Aeron.

The maester and the lord exchanged a look.

“I must send word to Pyke, and soon,” said Gorold Goodbrother. “Damphair, I would have your counsel. What shall it be, homage or defiance?”

“Is it true you are Lord Botley now?”

“In name, at least. Harren died at Moat Cailin. One of the bog devils shot him with a poisoned arrow. But I am the lord of nothing. When my father denied his claim to the Seastone Chair, the Crow’s Eye drowned him and

made my uncles swear him fealty

.\

Victarion let them fawn, until one began to praise Euron’s daring. “

It is daring to sail out of sight of land

, so no word of our coming could reach these islands before us,” he growled, “but crossing half the world to hunt for dragons, that is something else.” He did not wait for a reply, but shouldered through the press and on up to the keep.

The voice was Lord Rodrik’s. “When shall we return, Your Grace? A year? Three years? Five? Your dragons are a world away, and autumn is upon us.” The Reader walked forward, sounding all the hazards. “

Galleys guard the Redwyne Straits. The Dornish coast is dry and bleak, four hundred leagues of whirlpools, cliffs, and hidden shoals with hardly a safe landing anywhere. Beyond wait the Stepstones, with their storms and their nests of Lysene and Myrish pirates. I

f a thousand ships set sail, three hundred may reach the far side of the narrow sea

.

.. and then what? Lys will not welcome us, nor will Volantis. Where will you find fresh water, food? The first storm will scatter us across half the earth.”

So many drowned men, the Drowned God will be strong there, Victarion had thought when he chose the island for the three parts of his fleet to join up again. He was no priest, though. What if he had gotten it backwards?

The perfumed boys he wrapped in chains and threw into the sea. They were unnatural creatures

, and the ship smelled better once cleansed of their presence.

[DornishKnight]

“Ironborn must not spill the blood of ironborn.”

“A pious sentiment, Damphair,” said Goodbrother, “but not one that your brother shares. He had Sawane Botley drowned for saying that the Seastone Chair by rights belonged to Theon.”

“

If he was drowned, no blood was shed

,” said Aeron.

The maester and the lord exchanged a look.

“I must send word to Pyke, and soon,” said Gorold Goodbrother. “Damphair, I would have your counsel. What shall it be, homage or defiance?”

Pity Victarion was too stupid to think of that.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

You say "terrifying" like its a bad thing.

I don't get the Euron-love some folk seem to have...... :dunno: From the very first moment he appeared in the series, I found him to be terrifying.

Euron who burned the Lannister Fleet in Lannisport? Euron who sailed the smoking sea and found a dragon horn and dragon egg. Euron who either is or hired a faceless man to rid himself of Balon? Euron who won the Kingsmoot? Euron who sacked the shield islands, nearly sacked old town, is threatening the Highgarden, the Arbor and Slaver's Bay at once? Euron who captured and brought to heel the Warlocks of Qarth? Who was likely visited by Bloodraven? Who may well be a Greenseer, himself?

If a thousand ships set sail, three hundred may reach the far side of the narrow sea... and then what? Lys will not welcome us, nor will Volantis. Where will you find fresh water, food? The first storm will scatter us across half the earth.”

A smile played across Euron’s blue lips.

“

I am the storm, my lord. The first storm, and the last

. I have taken the Silence on longer voyages than this, and ones far more hazardous. Have you forgotten? I have sailed the Smoking Sea and seen Valyria.”

“No godless man—”

“—may sit the Seastone Chair, aye.” Euron glanced about the tent. “As it happens as I have oft sat upon the Seastone Chair of late. It raises no objections.” His smiling eye was glittering. “Who knows more of gods than I? Horse gods and fire gods, gods made of gold with gemstone eyes, gods carved of cedar wood, gods chiseled into mountains, gods of empty air... I know them all. I have seen their peoples garland them with flowers, and shed the blood of goats and bulls and children in their names. And I have heard the prayers, in half a hundred tongues. Cure my withered leg, make the maiden love me, grant me a healthy son. Save me, succor me, make me wealthy... protect me! Protect me from mine enemies, protect me from the darkness, protect me from the crabs inside my belly, from the horselords, from the slavers, from the sellswords at my door. Protect me from the Silence.” He laughed. “Godless? Why, Aeron, I am the godliest man ever to raise sail! You serve one god, Damphair, but I have served ten thousand. From Ib to Asshai, when men see my sails, they pray.”

The priest raised a bony finger. “They pray to trees and golden idols and goat-headed abominations. False gods...”

“Just so,” said Euron, “and for that sin I kill them all. I spill their blood upon the sea and sow their screaming women with my seed. Their little gods cannot stop me, so plainly they are false gods. I am more devout than even you, Aeron. Perhaps it should be you who kneels to me for blessing.”

The Red Oarsman laughed loudly at that, and the others took their lead from him.

“Fools,” said the priest, “fools and thralls and blind men, that is what you are. Do you not see what stands before you?”

“A king,” said Quellon Humble.

The Damphair spat, and strode out into the night.

When he was gone, the Crow’s Eye turned his smiling eye upon Victarion. “Lord Captain, have you no greeting for a brother long away? Nor you, Asha? How fares your lady mother?”

“Poorly,” Asha said. “Some man made her a widow.”

Euron shrugged. “I had heard the Storm God swept Balon to his death. Who is this man who slew him? Tell me his name, niece, so I might revenge myself on him.”

Asha got to her feet. “You know his name as well as I. Three years you were gone from us, and yet Silence returns within a day of my lord father’s death.”

“Do you accuse me?” Euron asked mildly.

“Should I?” The sharpness in Asha’s voice made Victarion frown. It was dangerous to speak so to the Crow’s Eye, even when his smiling eye was shining with amusement.

“Do I command the winds?” the Crow’s Eye asked his pets.

“No, Your Grace,” said Orkwood of Orkmont.

“No man commands the winds,” said Germund Botley.

“Would that you did,” the Red Oarsman said. “You would sail wherever you liked and never be becalmed.”

“There you have it, from the mouths of three brave men,” Euron said. “The Silence was at sea when Balon died. If you doubt an uncle’s word, I give you leave to ask my cre

w.”....

.....“IRONMEN,” said Euron Greyjoy, “you have heard my horn. Now hear my words. I am Balon’s brother, Quellon’s eldest living son. Lord Vickon’s blood is in my veins, and the blood of the Old Kraken. Yet I have sailed farther than any of them. Only one living kraken has never known defeat. Only one has never bent his knee. Only one has sailed to Asshai by the Shadow, and seen wonders and terrors beyond imagining...”

“If you liked the Shadow so well, go back there,” called out pink-cheeked Qarl the Maid, one of Asha’s champions.

The Crow’s Eye ignored him. “My little brother would finish Balon’s war, and claim the north. My sweet niece would give us peace and pinecones.” His blue lips twisted in a smile. “Asha prefers victory to defeat. Victarion wants a kingdom, not a few scant yards of earth. From me, you shall have both.

“Crow’s Eye, you call me. Well, who has a keener eye than the crow? After every battle the crows come in their hundreds and their thousands to feast upon the fallen. A crow can espy death from afar. And I say that all of Westeros is dying. Those who follow me will feast until the end of their days.

“We are the ironborn, and once we were conquerors. Our writ ran everywhere the sound of the waves was heard. My brother would have you be content with the cold and dismal north, my niece with even less... but I shall give you Lannisport. Highgarden. The Arbor. Oldtown. The riverlands and the Reach, the kingswood and the rainwood, Dorne and the marches, the Mountains of the Moon and the Vale of Arryn, Tarth and the Stepstones. I say we take it all! I say, we take Westeros.” He glanced at the priest. “All for the greater glory of our Drowned God, to be sure.”

For half a heartbeat even Aeron was swept away by the boldness of his words. The priest had dreamed the same dream, when first he’d seen the red comet in the sky. We shall sweep over the green lands with fire and sword, root out the seven gods of the septons and the white trees of the northmen...

“Crow’s Eye,” Asha called, “did you leave your wits at Asshai? If we cannot hold the north—and we cannot—how can we win the whole of the Seven Kingdoms?”

“Why, it has been done before. Did Balon teach his girl so little of the ways of war? Victarion, our brother’s daughter has never heard of Aegon the Conqueror, it would seem.”

“Aegon?” Victarion crossed his arms against his armored chest. “What has the Conqueror to do with us?”

“I know as much of war as you do, Crow’s Eye,” Asha said. “Aegon Targaryen conquered Westeros with dragons.”

“And so shall we,” Euron Greyjoy promised. “That horn you heard I found amongst the smoking ruins that were Valyria, where no man has dared to walk but me. You heard its call, and felt its power. It is a dragon horn, bound with bands of red gold and Valyrian steel graven with enchantments. The dragonlords of old sounded such horns, before the Doom devoured them. With this horn, ironmen, I can bind dragons to my will.”

Asha laughed aloud. “A horn to bind goats to your will would be of more use, Crow’s Eye. There are no more dragons.”

“Again, girl, you are wrong. There are three, and I know where to find them. Surely that is worth a driftwood crown.”

“EURON!” shouted Left-Hand Lucas Codd.

“EURON! CROW’S EYE! EURON!” cried the Red Oarsman.

What else do you need to know? Are you not entertained? Are you not entertained?

Eur :pirate:n! Eur ^:pirate:n! Eur ^:pirate:n!

Everything about him is dark to me....definitely not bad-ass in an appealing, rouge-ish way. In light of the just plain horrifying vibe I got from Euron, the Damphair's fear of him and the creaking door flashbacks immediately made me think that Euron had come into his room at night and abused him as a child.

Again, that's a given.

“Never mind that the bell has been rung just once in three hundred years,” Patrek had told Theon the day after, as he shared his father’s cautions and a jug of green-apple wine.

“When my brother stormed Seagard,”

Theon said. Lord Jason had slain Rodrik Greyjoy under the walls of the castle, and thrown the ironmen back into the bay. “

If your father supposes I bear him some enmity for that,

it’s only because he never knew Rodrik

.

”

“There is no shame in that. A lord must protect his smallfolk.

Cruel places breed cruel peoples

, Bran, remember that as you deal with these ironmen.

Your lord father did what he could to gentle Theon

,

but I fear it was too little and too late.”

Theon led the way up the stairs. I have climbed these steps a thousand times before.

As a boy he would run up; descending, he would take the steps three at a time, leaping. Once he leapt right into Old Nan and knocked her to the floor.

That earned him the worst thrashing he ever had at Winterfell

,

though it was almost tender compared to the beatings his brothers used to give him back on Pyke

.

He and Robb had fought many a heroic battle on these steps, slashing at one another with wooden swords. Good training, that; it brought home how hard it was to fight your way up a spiral stair against determined opposition. Ser Rodrik liked to say that one good man could hold a hundred, fighting down.

Abuse of what nature obviously is not specified, but to me it seemed really obvious.....and disturbing. I don't like Victarion all that much either, but he is not nearly as terrifying to me as the Crows-Eye. :eek

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Pity Victarion was too stupid to think of that.

were he smart enough to think of it he'd never be able to accomplish it. And anyway Balon objected to kinslaying not blood letting.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

That's the point. He is a genuinely terrifying and effective villain. Probably the most effective one yet.

Let not use the word

villain.

I would not agree that any such thing exists or that were they to exist Euron would constitute one such.

I'm rooting for Euron to sit the Iron Throne, personally. And nothing he has done wreaked havoc on the scale of Dany in Astapor or her Sun & Stars. Or even that of Stannis for refusing to bend the knee to Renly Certainly he's no Tywin.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

No, that is the point. It can't have just been anything. Many (most?) people feel that anything purely physical can be pretty much ruled out. This is due to purely physical trauma being an every-day occurence in the Greyjoy household and culture, so not something to have left such severe and deep seated damage to Aeron, someone who is otherwise as hard and tough as they come. Mind games? Possible, but doesn't strike me as reasonable. These are a couple of kids.

Well Euron is significantly older than Aeron.

I just can't see such serious damage coming from mind games played by one kid on another, even a teenage kid. Magic? No. Euron didn't get into mysterious magic shit until after he had been voyaging off to mysterious foreign parts, consorting with sorcerers and drinking their blue-lip brew.

OH?

​

“When I was a boy, I dreamt that I could fly,” he announced. “When I woke, I couldn’t... or so the maester said. But what if he lied?”

Victarion could smell the sea through the open window, though the room stank of wine and blood and sex. The cold salt air helped to clear his head. “What do you mean?”

Euron turned to face him, his bruised blue lips curled in a half smile. “Perhaps we can fly. All of us. How will we ever know unless we leap from some tall tower?” The wind came gusting through the window and stirred his sable cloak. There was something obscene and disturbing about his nakedness.

“No man ever truly knows what he can do unless he dares to leap.”

“There is the window. Leap.” Victarion had no patience for this. His wounded hand was troubling him. “What do you want?”

“The world.” Firelight glimmered in Euron’s eye. His smiling eye.

It seemed as though he had been falling for years.

Fly, a voice whispered in the darkness, but Bran did not know ‘thow to fly, so all he could do was fall.

Maester Luwin made a little boy of clay, baked him till he was hard and brittle, dressed him in Bran’s clothes, and flung him off a roof. Bran remembered the way he shattered. “But I never fall,” he said, falling.

The ground was so far below him he could barely make it out through the grey mists that whirled around him, but he could feel how fast he was falling, and he knew what was waiting for him down there. Even in dreams, you could not fall forever. He would wake up in the instant before he hit the ground, he knew. You always woke up in the instant before you hit the ground.

And if you don’t? the voice asked.

The ground was closer now, still far far away, a thousand miles away, but closer than it had been. It was cold here in the darkness. There was no sun, no stars, only the ground below coming up to smash him, and the grey mists, and the whispering voice. He wanted to cry.

Not cry. Fly.

“I can’t fly,” Bran said. “I can’t, I can’t

How do you know? Have you ever tried?

The voice was high and thin. Bran looked around to see where it was coming from. A crow was spiraling down with him, just out of reach, following him as he fell. “Help me,” he said.

I’m trying, the crow replied. Say, got any corn?

Bran reached into his pocket as the darkness spun dizzily around him. When he pulled his hand out, golden kernels slid from between his fingers into the air. They fell with him.

The crow landed on his hand and began to eat.

“Are you really a crow?” Bran asked.

Are you really falling? the crow asked back.

“It’s just a dream,” Bran said.

Is it? asked the crow.

“I’ll wake up when I hit the ground,” Bran told the bird.

You’ll die when you hit the ground, the crow said. It went back to eating corn.

Bran looked down. He could see mountains now, their peaks white with snow, and the silver thread of rivers in dark woods. He closed his eyes and began to cry.

That won’t do any good, the crow said. I told you, the answer is flying, not crying. How hard can it be? I’m doing it. The crow took to the air and flapped around Bran’s hand.

“You have wings,” Bran pointed out.

Maybe you do too.

Bran felt along his shoulders, groping for feathers.

There are different kinds of wings, the crow said.

Bran was staring at his arms, his legs. He was so skinny, just skin stretched taut over bones. Had he always been so thin? He tried to remember. A face swam up at him out of the grey mist, shining with light, golden. “The things I do for love,” it said.

Bran screamed.

The crow took to the air, cawing. Not that, it shrieked at him. Forget that, you do not need it now, put it aside, put it away. It landed on Bran’s shoulder, and pecked at him, and the shining golden face was gone.

Bran was falling faster than ever. The grey mists howled around him as he plunged toward the earth below. “What are you doing to me?” he asked the crow, tearful.

Teaching you how to fly.

“I can’t fly!”

You’re flying tight now.

“I’m falling!”

Every flight begins with a fall, the crow said. Look down.

“I’m afraid...”

LOOKDOWN!

Bran looked down, and felt his insides turn to water. The ground was rushing up at him now. The whole world was spread out below him, a tapestry of white and brown and green. He could see everything so clearly that for a moment he forgot to be afraid. He could see the whole realm, and everyone in it.

He saw Winterfell as the eagles see it, the tall towers looking squat and stubby from above, the castle walls just lines in the dirt. He saw Maester Luwin on his balcony, studying the sky through a polished bronze tube and frowning as he made notes in a book. He saw his brother Robb, taller and stronger than he remembered him, practicing swordplay in the yard with real steel in his hand. He saw Hodor, the simple giant from the stables, carrying an anvil to Mikken’s forge, hefting it onto his shoulder as easily as another man might heft a bale of hay. At the heart of the godswood, the great white weirwood brooded over its reflection in the black pool, its leaves rustling in a chill wind. When it felt Bran watching, it lifted its eyes from the still waters and stared back at him knowingly.

He looked east, and saw a galley racing across the waters of the Bite. He saw his mother sitting alone in a cabin, looking at a bloodstained knife on a table in front of her, as the rowers pulled at their oars and Ser Rodrik leaned across a rail, shaking and heaving. A storm was gathering ahead of them, a vast dark roaring lashed by lightning, but somehow they could not see it.

He looked south, and saw the great blue-green rush of the Trident. He saw his father pleading with the king, his face etched with grief. He saw Sansa crying herself to sleep at night, and he saw Arya watching in silence and holding her secrets hard in her heart. There were shadows all around them. One shadow was dark as ash, with the terrible face of a hound. Another was armored like the sun, golden and beautiful. Over them both loomed a giant in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood.

He lifted his eyes and saw clear across the narrow sea, to the Free Cities and the green Dothraki sea and beyond, to Vaes Dothrak under its mountain, to the fabled lands of the Jade Sea, to Asshai by the Shadow, where dragons stirred beneath the sunrise.

Finally he looked north. He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him. And he looked past the Wall, past endless forests cloaked in snow, past the frozen shore and the great blue-white rivers of ice and the dead plains where nothing grew or lived. North and north and north he looked, to the curtain of light at the end of the world, and then beyond that curtain. He looked deep into the heart of winter, and then he cried out, afraid, and the heat of his tears burned on his cheeks.

Now you know, the crow whispered as it sat on his shoulder. Now you know why you must live.

“Why?” Bran said, not understanding, falling, falling.

Because winter is coming.

Sexual abuse? It fits all the evidence we have perfectly. Quoted from Lyanna Stark's post, which seems to have been avoided by the anti-sexual-abuse posters for some reason (perhaps because she put it so well it makes it practically undeniable that sexual abuse is at very least a probability here)... So exactly what is the issue with it being sexual abuse? Why not? I can't take serious the objection that Euron clearly isn't a one-dimensional pedophile - this isn't being done for sexual gratification, its being done for power and the gratification that comes from that, if any. We don't know it was guaranteed sexual abuse, but it seems very much more likely with the evidence at hand (including cultural, religious and personality/related actions and reactions). I'd go 9:1 odds at least.

[The Sleeper]

Not that I think that Euron isn't capable of it, but my initial assumption was that the rusted iron hinge referred to his time spent as a guest of the Lannisters at the dungeons of the Rock as we are told it's not a very nice place, particularly because he became a priest afterwards. Other than that, I imagine that growing up with Euron for a big brother could very well instill a deep-rooted terror of the dude.

[Warhammer]

This happened when they were kids, right? I imagine the kids were rather close in age, and considering the culture of the Ironborn allowing yourself to suffer any kind of abuse would be cause for great shame.

I don't really imagine Euron to be very physically impressive, and from what we know he couldn't pull it with Balon or Victarion so maybe it was just determining the social order in the Greyjoy house.

I can't find birth dates, but assuming Balon was the oldest he could pick on whoever, Vic is a big bad mofo so he was most likely #2 possibly picking on Euron who in turn picked on Damphair....

Ironborn culture is so based in strength, perhaps the shame of being the weakest is enough to cause that reaction. Perhaps Euron raping Vic's wife was his attempt to win back his self esteem, and Damphair tried to rise to power through religion.

IMO every Greyjoy is attempting to win power whether through overt or subversive means.

[Silver Spearwife]

This happened when they were kids, right? I imagine the kids were rather close in age, and considering the culture of the Ironborn allowing yourself to suffer any kind of abuse would be cause for great shame.

Aeron was the baby of the family and Euron was the second oldest of five. Most families in Westeros (and in general) have a gap of at least two years between kids, so...about six years, give or take.

It would have to be pretty bad abuse. Theon was also the baby of his family, and I think it's mentioned that his brothers used to beat him up a lot. I imagine that's relatively expected of ironmen families, so whining about it just gets you beaten up more. So for him to be so scared of Euron, either Aeron is quite the weakling pushover (which he really doesn't strike me as), or the abuse was reallybad.

The general description of the situation seems to be implying sexual abuse, but that doesn't necessarily confirm it. Although when it comes to Martin, when in doubt it's usually sex.