Drowsey Dragon Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Hello everyone. This is my first post ever on this site and I just finished ASOS. There are so many topics I am looking forward to getting into, so here is my first one. It is very clear over the past three books that Jaime is totally devoted to Cersei and mentions several times that she is the only woman he has ever been with or needs to be with. He even kicked a girl out of his bed in Harenthal, which is a testament to his character and devotion to Cersei.On the other hand, Cersei is sleeping with what seems every man that moves. Why does she not share the same devotion? She made it clear to Lord Stark they were meant for each other, they came into the world together etc. Is Jaime just another tool for her to use, like everyone else?Also, is there any indication up to this point, that Jaime ever sensed she was not loyal to him in return? SPOILER for anyone who has not read the last chapter of Jaime and Tyrion together, don't read this:Tyrion tells Jaime that Cersei has been sleeping with their cousin, but we do not get a good sense of how Jaime felt about this. What are your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crown Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I think she used to love Jamie, as much as he did. But they got alienated due to his absence, and she doesn't like the 'new' or 'changed' Jamie. So yeah, he's just another fool now, for her use.Secondly, I don't think he ever knew or sensed that she was sleeping with other man, until Tyrion told him.And to comment on your last thought 'we do not get a good sense of how Jamie felt about this,' just keep reading. You'll get Jamie's thoughts on this during A Feast for Crows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catastrophe Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Because Cersei uses sex as a means of gaining power and loyalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Eireanne Stark Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 The only weapon that Cersei has is sex and she uses it well. I don't think she 'loves' Jamie, just uses him. I don't hold up much hope for the cousin now that Jamie knows. I have a feeling that Cersei is about to fall very ungracefully and she won#y have anyone to catch her, not even Jamie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya_Stark666 Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Cersei has to use whatever she has, because as she always complains, she's not a man and has to be more cunning since she can't just go hacking down people with swords. It's not that she enjoys the sex... well, perhaps she does in the moment. She does it because she feels she HAS to. She uses her beauty and charm which leads to sex to blackmail people or get whatever it is she wants. She's basically a royal whore.She does love Jaime, at least she did until this book. It's just obvious that she loves power and her children more. Twins always have a natrually lcoser bond, so I think it just felt natural to them to fall in love and have sex. If they can't trust their twin, who can they trust? The downfall of their relationship was when Jaime got captured. She eventually seemed to just assume he was dead and moved on.I thought we learned that Cersei and Lancel were having sex in the first book...? Or was he not talking about Lancel? I just watched the series online (again! lol) and it was in the very last episode. So we must have learned that in Game of Thrones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorge Contreras Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Cersei´s fixation with her twin brother is a sign of rebellion against her father's will, a declaration of independence, that she can sleep with the man that she wants, even if him is her brother, also, Cersei uses sex as a weapon for survival and to obtain power in the male dominated westerosi politics; Jaime is just an idiot submissed to his sister by a forbidden love, but I think since he and Brienne departed fronm Riverrun, misadventures and experiences during their trip are making him to open his eyes to the reality beyond Lannisters' ambitions and her sister's dominance over him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drowsey Dragon Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 Well I definitly don't agree that Jaime is an idiot. I think Cersei dominated him from a young age and he was always under her spell until his return to KL. The problem for Cersei is once her beauty leaves her, she will lose her weapon of power, just as Jaime has lost his. I believe Little Finger aluded to this earlier. If I had to guess Cersei must be in her early 30s, so she is no young Lioness anymore. She does have the power of the throne and Lannister gold though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Roaring Bear Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I agree that Jaime is no idiot. There's between not caring and being stupid. Jaime has never had to worry about strategy because his father and sister have always taken a liking to it. His enjoyment has always been from the adventure and act so he revels in that. I garauntee now that withSpoiler regarding end of ASOS Tywin now dead, and Jaime no longer having his sword handThat we will see a whole new intellectual side to Jaime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorge Contreras Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I didn´t want to say that Jaime was a completely idiot, but he was very infatuated by Cersei, but his adventure during his journey from Riverrun to King's Landing is the first step set to him to obtain his independence from her and from his father.Also, about the age, the characters all well set in a medieval world, during the european middle ages, people has a life expectancy of 42 years, and martin shows here a world inhabited by young people, and real old people are rare, just like Lord Frey or Jon Arryn, Lord Tywin, for example, is at his early fifties, and Robert and Ned were men at his late thirties, Stannis, nowadays would pass for a young man at his 34-35 years old, despite his balding head and his bitter temper, Jaime and Cersei have 31-32 years old, and Tyrion is a youth at his 23 years, but in a medieval world with primitive medicine, crowded cities with dirty streets and no clean water, the risk of getting a very serious disease and diying because of it is high, so a man like Robert or Ned is old for medieval standards, Stannis is old, Jaime and Cersei are just in the passing from maturity to old age, Tyrion is a mature man, and Sansa at her 13 years old is just in time to get married. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drowsey Dragon Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 Jaime's character is really compelling. I could not stand him in GOT. I thought he was arrogant and shallow and what he did to Bran..But now he has become one of my favorite characters. I have high hopes for him now that he is free of his evil twin. I really hope he ends up with Brienne. She brings out the best in Jaime where as Cercei always brought out the worst in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorge Contreras Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 It seems that the only real evil character in the novel series is Cersei, altough, her evilness is a rebellion against the customs of Westerosi nobility towards women, used like a bargain or a coin for exchange alliances and buying loyalties. So she wants to demonstrate that she can obtain and hold power for herself, using the weapons of sex and intrigue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crown Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 It seems that the only real evil character in the novel series is Cersei, altough, her evilness is a rebellion against the customs of Westerosi nobility towards women, used like a bargain or a coin for exchange alliances and buying loyalties. So she wants to demonstrate that she can obtain and hold power for herself, using the weapons of sex and intrigue...The only one? Are you sure? You forgot about Ramsey Bolton, I presume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Roaring Bear Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Petyr Baelish seems a bit on the "Not so goody-goody" side as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I hate to be a cynical "starts with B, rhymes with witch", but I think Cersei got an extra dose of testosterone when she was born. Her sex drive was in fourth gear at an early age. She was always the instigator beginning when they were young, and yeah, sex is her weapon of control, but the girl has needs.Check with your male friends with children. Anyone with three kids is likely complaining about not getting any you know what. Cersei is out trolling for crying out loud.Jaime loves Tyrion and when Tyrion was 13 he arranged Tyrion's "marriage" to Tysha, to help the little guy feel like a man. Was Jaime whoring around when he was 13 and a squire, and then a young knight? Nope. A beautiful, gorgeous blonde looker who likely had women throwing themselves at him from all sides? Catelyn Stark looks down at 32 year old Jaime, starved, beaten, stinking, chained to a wall and his beauty takes her breath away.He is obsessed with his sister and can only see the person he loves and wants. But Jaime with 2 hands and Jaime with 1 hand are different people.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drowsey Dragon Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 I hate to be a cynical "starts with B, rhymes with witch", but I think Cersei got an extra dose of testosterone when she was born. Her sex drive was in fourth gear at an early age. She was always the instigator beginning when they were young, and yeah, sex is her weapon of control, but the girl has needs.Check with your male friends with children. Anyone with three kids is likely complaining about not getting any you know what. Cersei is out trolling for crying out loud.Jaime loves Tyrion and when Tyrion was 13 he arranged Tyrion's "marriage" to Tysha, to help the little guy feel like a man. Was Jaime whoring around when he was 13 and a squire, and then a young knight? Nope. A beautiful, gorgeous blonde looker who likely had women throwing themselves at him from all sides? Catelyn Stark looks down at 32 year old Jaime, starved, beaten, stinking, chained to a wall and his beauty takes her breath away.He is obsessed with his sister and can only see the person he loves and wants. But Jaime with 2 hands and Jaime with 1 hand are different people.... Well said Fragile Bird! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WenchofTarth Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Honestly I see Ceresi not really seeing herself as "betraying" Jaime, he is the one who she will go back to in the end but she isn't going to let such a powerful weapon that is between her legs go to waste. She wants power after all and knows (or thinks she knows) how to get and keep it. Jaime though would no doubt give up everything just for her. Ceresi desires it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya_Stark666 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I think Cersei does love Jaime as well as her children, BUT I can very easily put her entire person into a nutshell. She wants power and if someone is in her way, she'll step on them, no matter who it is.Remeber in GoT when she said "everyone who isn't us is an enemy"? That was a lie. What she meant was "everyone who isn't ME is an enemy"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teemo Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Cersei just loves CERSEI. I think she would throw anyone under the bus, including her own blood, if it would help her out enough in some way. She is so bitter about not being born a man, and she seems to have a particular hatred for men and loves to use them as pawns. But, she also likes to hate on women because she is extremely insecure. Cersei is just mean and bitter. Does she really love her kids? I don't know. I honestly just think they're pawns too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wight Walker Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I think she does love her children. I think that's about it though.I figured she did feel the same way about Jaime for awhile but in the last book I definitely don't believe that anymore. Will be interesting to see how it goes in AFFC, just started it yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playXray Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I think she does love Jamie but only superficially - the kind of love that is great when everything's great but goes to pieces when things go bad. Ultimately, she's a very selfish character and I reckon she would pretty much kill or use anyone (aside from her children) to get her own way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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