Patchface Project

[redriver]

Can you provide the quotation? The information on the wiki page then has to be completed.

From The Iron Suitor in ADWD-

"On the day the Doom came to Valyria,it was said,a wall of water 300 feet high had descended on the island,drowning hundreds of thousand of men,women and children,leaving none to tell the tale but some fisherfolk who had been at sea and a handful of Velosi spearmen posted in a stout stone tower on the island's highest hill.,who had seen the hills and valleys beneath them turn into a raging sea...."

That refers to Velos in Slavers Bay,but the implication is that something catastrophic happened in Valyria to cause such a tsunami.

From Tyrion,ADWD p446,hb-

"Valyria.It was written that on the day of the Doom every hill for 500 miles had split asunder to fill the air with ash and smoke and fire,blazes so hot and hungry that even the dragons in the sky were consumed.Great rents had opened in the earth,swallowing palaces'temples,entire towns.Lakes boiled or turned to acid,mountains burst,fiery fountains spewed molten rock a thousand feet into the air,red clouds rained down dragonglass and the black blood of demons,and to the north the ground splintered and collapsed and fell in on itself and an angry sea came rushing in......"

I'll leave the Wiki to you.

[The Mother of The Others]

It sounds like he watched the science channel's hour on how Gomorrah blew up. One theory is the region was a powder keg and the city sat on earth that was doomed to explode from volcanic / natural gas pressures. People watching from a safe distance would almost have to conclude it was an act of God. Just like we're left to wonder if Valyria was destabilized by unsound magical practices that delved too far into the earth until they suffered the consequences.

[redriver]

As Tyrion reflects -An empire built on blood and fire.The Valyrians reaped the seed they had sown.

[msawani]

Dont know if this has been tossed out there before but I felt that mel's prophecy about patchface has something to do with the wall and maybe the horn of winter.......his "red lips" that she sees on him. I mean the wall has to fall because otherwise the others would be stuck behind it. I doubt Mel destroyed it just like how she didnt burn mance. And who else would be stupid enough to blow it, altho that wouldntmake him evil like the prophecy seems to imply. Maybe he does it intentionally then?

Thoughts?

[Mist Isle]

Dont know if this has been tossed out there before but I felt that mel's prophecy about patchface has something to do with the wall and maybe the horn of winter.......his "red lips" that she sees on him. I mean the wall has to fall because otherwise the others would be stuck behind it. I doubt Mel destroyed it just like how she didnt burn mance. And who else would be stupid enough to blow it, altho that wouldntmake him evil like the prophecy seems to imply. Maybe he does it intentionally then?

Thoughts?

Yes, the horn that was burned was almost certainly not the Horn of Winter. Tormund Giantsbane admits to Jon Snow that Mance Rayder and the wildlings never found the Horn of Winter and instead tried to pass off a giant's horn as the Horn of Winter. The horn that was found on the Fist of the First Men by Jon Snow (and later sold by Samwell Tarly) might be the actual Horn of Winter. This horn could end up back at the Wall by some means. The idea that Patchface might blow it is very interesting.

[The Mother of The Others]

If his lips are red and Ramsay is Stannis' enemy...........

Ramsay might one day have Selyse & Shireen jailed and kill them off by having their fool consume them.

[Queen Beyond the Wall]

I hope that Theon meets Patchface...I think Patchface may have something interesting to say to him!

[fluffywarthog]

It sounds like he watched the science channel's hour on how Gomorrah blew up. One theory is the region was a powder keg and the city sat on earth that was doomed to explode from volcanic / natural gas pressures. People watching from a safe distance would almost have to conclude it was an act of God. Just like we're left to wonder if Valyria was destabilized by unsound magical practices that delved too far into the earth until they suffered the consequences.

I'd figured that the Valyrians had destabilized their environment with dragons, mining, and magic to the point where even more magic was necessary to keep the entire peninsula from exploding.

My theory was always that the Doom was an unsustainable level of mining and magical development; the Valyrians simply got more dependent on magic and slavery, and more-and-more extreme in their application of both, that when a truly large revolt happened, their social house of cards collapsed: the volcanoes and sea swallowed everything and everyone.

More than anything, the Doom of Valyria sounds like what ruined most of the eastern Mediterranean in the 15th century BCE. The Thera geological event combined a volcano, earthquakes, and tsunami to destroy a good portion of Minoan-Greek civilization and everything else in a thousand miles. This sounds more like what wrecked Valyria than anything else.

[Jpdowling]

I think that what happened to patchface is essentially the same thing that happened to The Damphair, with the drowning and being reborn and all that. It seems to me that the Drowned God gave these prophetic powers to patchface. I think that the difference between the two is that 1) patchface for whatever reason has a stronger commune with the Drowned God and 2), whereas Aeron Greyjoy grew up worshipping the Drowned God, patchface had never heard anything about him and so when he met him and gained his power, he had no idea what was happening and went mad. One possible reason for patches having a stronger bond with the Drowned God is that he is meant to combat Melisandre and R'Hllor. This would also explain why Melisandre sees patchface in a sort of demonic light, as hers is a jealous god and she sees all other gods as evil (there's some mention of this in ADWD and I think she might even mention the old gods, but she definitely says something to that effect.)

Now I am only a young poster, and inexperienced in the ways of this forum, but this really stuck out to me as I read, thoughts?

[Lady Octarina]

I think that what happened to patchface is essentially the same thing that happened to The Damphair, with the drowning and being reborn and all that. It seems to me that the Drowned God gave these prophetic powers to patchface. I think that the difference between the two is that 1) patchface for whatever reason has a stronger commune with the Drowned God and 2), whereas Aeron Greyjoy grew up worshipping the Drowned God, patchface had never heard anything about him and so when he met him and gained his power, he had no idea what was happening and went mad. One possible reason for patches having a stronger bond with the Drowned God is that he is meant to combat Melisandre and R'Hllor. This would also explain why Melisandre sees patchface in a sort of demonic light, as hers is a jealous god and she sees all other gods as evil (there's some mention of this in ADWD and I think she might even mention the old gods, but she definitely says something to that effect.)

Now I am only a young poster, and inexperienced in the ways of this forum, but this really stuck out to me as I read, thoughts?

Welcome! That was a nice first post!

I like your idea that the Drowned God actually gave Patchface those powers and he went mad for lack of preparation to understand this "gift". But I don't think the Damphair has any powers out of the ordinary, he always struck me as simply a religious fanatic, and before I got to these boards I actually doubted the Drowned God had any powers at all. But Patchface does present us with interesting possibilities here.

[romantic]

[The Flames] “Under the sea, smoke rises in bubbles, and flames burn green and blue and black,” Patchface sang somewhere. “I know, I know, oh, oh, oh.”

Could it be obsidian? I know it comes in different colours on Dragonstone but I think there might have been red obsidian as well (sorry memory's going LOL).

[Jpdowling]

I think the Damphair has some sort of connection with the Drowned God, or at least acts as the will of him in Westeros. I feel like he and Patchface either have to meet at some point, or Melisandre will kill Patchface to prevent the meeting. But then if R'Hllor and the Drowned God don't like each other how do you explain the Moqorro-Victarion alliance? I don't know. Patchface is a creepy little dude. I have a feeling that he'll end up killing someone by the end of it all, and I base this conclusion upon no evidence whatsoever.

[Dornish Bannerman]

Why do I think Gerion Lannister can have something to do with these? He has been missed for years, but he went east. Might be he has found something on Valyria. He and Euron would not be best friends either, should they meet.

How about Gerion finds a dragon, and comes to Tyrion. The two of them were really good friends, maybe the best Tyrion ever had.

[Dornish Bannerman]

About R'hllor and the Drowned God. I think Moqorro will want to try and combine the two religions. Kind of like pouring wildfire on a person and throwing him in the sea. That would not work well with the Drowned Men though...

I think it is more important with Stannis' new respect for the Old Gods.

[Cheese Pudding]

[The Flames] = Battle of the Blackwater?

And Melisandre, IMO, saw Patchface after the ship bringing him sank. Patchface ate Steffon and Cassana.

[CladInShadows]

[The Feast] “Under the sea the mermen feast on starfish soup, and all the serving men are crabs”

This strikes me as definitely being about the Frey pie. The mermaids are house Manderly. The starfish represents the freys - the many legs of the starfish are the many branches of house Frey. Note also that many starfish will regenerate lost legs and some may even grow an entire new body from a single remaining leg. (See here: http://en.wikipedia....sh#Regeneration) The starfish's legs then are all of Walder Frey's children. As for the crabs, it could refer to a house however I always picture this as being Lord Wyman himself. He is so fat that he is always carried abound in a litter. Picture a litter, with it's carriers at the front and back (See here: http://www.med-dept....itter_carry.gif) and tell me that from the side it doesn't somewhat look like a crab scuttling sideways down the road.

Next look at this one - [The Birds] “Under the sea, the birds have scales for feathers," he said, clang-a-langing. "I know, I know, oh, oh, oh.”

What this demonstrates is how Patchface sees things in our world as if he was standing on the ocean floor and the sky was full of water. He interprets birds as fish, flying through the air. He still thinks of himself as being underwater. Why this is important is because...

[The March] Patchface jumped up. “I will lead it!” His bells rang merrily. “We will march into the sea and out again. Under the waves we will ride seahorses, and mermaids will blow seashells to announce our coming, oh, oh, oh.”

If birds look like fish flying through the sky to him, then what would looks like someone riding a seahorse through the air? A dragon rider. And announcing the coming of this dragon rider is the blowing of a horn.

As for some of the others:

[The Crow] “The crow, the crow,” Patchface cried when he saw Jon. “Under the sea the crows are white as snow, I know, I know, oh, oh, oh.”

I am almost certain this confirms Jon Snow's warging into ghost.

[The Flames] “Under the sea, smoke rises in bubbles, and flames burn green and blue and black,” Patchface sang somewhere. “I know, I know, oh, oh, oh.”

This to me shouts of the Blackwater. Did Patchface say this before or after the battle had happened? I guess it only makes sense as a Prophecy if it precedes the battle itself.

[Vinterhed]

In terms of what Patchface is, we have seen that the Others are real but because of folktales and not having seen them for thousands of years etc, we do not really know much about the Others, and similarly Patchface maybe something else from a tale. In AFFC Nimble Dick tells Brienne about Squishers.

Now blatantly this does not entirely describe Patchface, but there are similarities to how he is described and Mel's vision. So I wonder if Patchface is something that this tale of squishers was based on.

Sounds like the deep ones to me.

[Aegon Stark I]

If no one else on the ship survived we don't actually know this Patchface is the original jester spoken of. I'm not saying that any of the theories above aren't correct just that we shouldn't discount this theory. In a world of magic and illusion some kind of switch might have taken place still to be revealed.

In any event it seems clear he is going to play a significant role at some stage.

In another thread someone asked about possible prologues in WoW and DoS...how about a Patchface POV!!!

[rmholt]

Much like Davos' miraculous survival when he was washed out to sea after the Blackwater.

And Elder Brother on the Quiet Isle

[Ivy Snow]

A new thought on [The Flames] “Under the sea, smoke rises in bubbles, and flames burn green and blue and black,” Patchface sang somewhere. “I know, I know, oh, oh, oh.”

I think this may be a reference to the Drowned God. According to the wiki, "The Drowned God himself is believed to have brought flame from the sea". And concerning his priests: "Drowned Men wear roughspun robes of mottled green, grey, and blue, which colors are those of the Drowned God."

The colors are just about right. Dark or wet grey clothing certainly would look similar to black, and the drowned God aparently took fire out from under the water. Could there be something here?

Well.. smoke rises in bubbles... maybe it's the breath of the drowned god followers during the ritual of being drowned?.. it was mentioned here that the colors of what the drowned men wear and patchface's song could be the same.. so I just thought the smoke rises as bubbles could be their breath.. lol.. just being silly here :laugh: