Aurane Waters - Tyrell to the bone?

[LadyoftheNorth72]

This started off as a response in another thread, but there are so many questions in my head about Aurane Waters, I decided they needed their own thread.

If this is the case {that Loras never went to, or intended to go to, Dragonstone at all} - and I think it is a sound enough possibility - then you have to add Aurane Waters to the mix. He is the one who brought Cersei the tale of the taking of Dragonstone, in quite graphic and thorough detail. This would mean that Waters has been a Tyrell lackey for quite a while, perhaps from the beginning. In fact I am surprised (I am rereading AFfC right now) that his origins, role and loyalties have not been a major topic of discussion here. Where did this guy come from? How did he arrive at court, bastard as he is, and rise so quickly to such prominence? Was he a plant by the Tyrells, betting on his Rhaegar-like appearance to catch Cersei's eye? Perhaps they had a plan of their own to have Cersei "caught" bedding down with a man.

And, of course, one has to also look at his actions IMMEDIATELY following Cersei's arrest - almost the moment her cell door is locked, he lifts anchor and sails her new fleet away. She seems to almost laugh this off as unavoidable, but if he is a Tyrell lackey, then all the naval power is now firmly in the hands of the Tyrells.

Also, one must take into account the "thousand" or so knights and combatants that supposedly perished with Loras - by Aurane's own words, the best and the bravest. Since these thousand men cannot simply come waltzing back into KL, then (if this theory is correct) the Tyrells have just augmented their land forces with a thousand of the best fighters in Westeros.

The fact that Cersei simply took Aurane's story utterly at face value has always struck me as insanely stupid. Granted, she does not have much time left for sussing it out, as the HS is about to put her out of commission for a while. But why does it not occur to her that ravens surely should have arrived BEFORE Waters did, bearing the news of Dragonstone? Why would Loras' men not have sent immediate word to his family by the fastest means possible of his injury? And why is his dear sister Marg, who is so certain he will survive, not rushing away to be by his side? All of these are questions that should have occurred to "Tywin's heir.". Instead, she is so caught up in her absurd plotting, all she thinks is to gloat at how clever she is to have rid herself of Loras so easily.

[Elaena Targaryen]

:agree:

...and I have wondered if Aurane had the hots for Loras...

[LadyoftheNorth72]

BTW my apologies if there have been a dozen threads about this already. The search function does not work on my "smart" phone. :/

[The King in the South]

Aurane Waters was Stannis's man from the get go, and only joined L+T because he was captured.

I think it's more likely he's trying to sow discord, or simply trying to build his power. It's not like he came back and joined up with the Tyrells once he had the fleet.

If anything, he's probably still working for Stannis, or going rogue.

[Elaena Targaryen]

Isn't it possible that Loras seduced him? It is possible for a man to do this. Anything to save the Reach, plus Aurane is good looking.

[Sevumar]

This is an aspect of the "grand Tyrell conspiracy" idea that I haven't really considered. If something like this is the case, then Aurane Waters has to be quite the opportunist to switch loyalties so quickly. As a bastard of House Velaryon, he fought for Stannis on the Blackwater, but surrendered and swore fealty to Joffrey.

Is there anything in the story that we can interpret as evidence of his Tyrell allegiance before ferrying Loras to Dragonstone? I think it's less likely that he had a standing association with the Tyrells than that he may have made a pact with Loras on the voyage to Dragonstone. Coming from a house sworn to Dragonstone, it's possible he would have knowledge of some of the fortress's secrets. Perhaps he offered that knowledge in trade for protection when it came time to make his move later on?

It's unclear what he has to gain by allying himself with the Tyrells, unless it was something he wouldn't normally have access to as a bastard.

[The King in the South]

Isn't it possible that Loras seduced him? It is possible for a man to do this.

Yes...but when did we get any hints that Aurane Waters was gay?

Besides, I thought Loras had kinda commited himself to celibacy after Renly's death

[Elaena Targaryen]

Yes...but when did we get any hints that Aurane Waters was gay?

Besides, I thought Loras had kinda commited himself to celibacy after Renly's death

Yes, I know, no hints. I'm only wanting to make sense of Aurane's actions. Taking off with the royal fleet is pretty ballsy...unless it involves the brother of the king's wife, maybe?

[The King in the South]

Yes, I know, no hints. I'm only wanting to make sense of Aurane's actions. Taking off with the royal fleet is pretty ballsy...unless it involves the brother of the king's wife, maybe?

Or he's just going to become a pirate like several people seem to think. It's not like the Tyrells or the Lannisters can do anything about it anyways

[LadyoftheNorth72]

Aurane Waters was Stannis's man from the get go, and only joined L+T because he was captured.

I think it's more likely he's trying to sow discord, or simply trying to build his power. It's not like he came back and joined up with the Tyrells once he had the fleet.

If anything, he's probably still working for Stannis, or going rogue.

Actually I don't think we know yet what he has done with the fleet, other than that he took it.

Whether he is now with the Tyrells will be indicated, IMO, by Loras' true condition. If Loras is truly at death's door, then I could see Waters as going rogue or returning to Stannis. But if Loras is fine, then I think the role Aurane played in playing Cersei indicates another switching of sides.

[WhiteWolf26]

Is there any mention of Aurane with Stannis' forces before his imprisonment on the Blackwater?

[Sevumar]

Is there any mention of Aurane with Stannis' forces before his imprisonment on the Blackwater?

He's only mentioned once by name in A Clash of Kings, and that's after the Blackwater.

[The King in the South]

Is there any mention of Aurane with Stannis' forces before his imprisonment on the Blackwater?

When Tywin is doling out the rewards for the Blackwater it's mentioned that the Bastard of Driftmark is one of the nobles that's been taken captive. He's contiually referred to as the Bastard of Driftmark, until Cersei, who calls him Aurane Waters, the Bastard of Driftmark

[Sand Snake No. 9]

Obviously, they never heard of background checks in Westeros. Aurane fought for Stannis, and so did his father Lord Monford Velaryon, who died when his ship burned and sank on the Blackwater. Presumably, many Velaryon retainers went down with Lord Monford's ship. Those deaths might cause some resentment. But more important, I think, House Velaryon is an old Valerian family that has intermarried with the Targaryens. (You can check the wiki for these facts).

Cersei gave Aurane the Crown's navy when the sting of his losses on the Blackwater were fresh and when there were rumors of dragons in the East. To hell with the Tyrells, Aurane had plenty of his own reasons to want to screw the Crown.

[LadyoftheNorth72]

And apparently was looking for the first opportunity. I just reread the scene where the news of the accusations against Margaery are made public. When Cersei retires with her council and it is pointed out that the smallfolk will likely not take well to Marg's imprisonment, it is Waters who suggests immediately launching all the new dromonds, ostensibly to remind the smallfolk of the crown's power. Very convenient.

[Ser Ingolf]

But more important, I think, House Velaryon is an old Valerian family that has intermarried with the Targaryens.

Does anyone think he may have taken the fleet to the east to join the rumoured Targaryen heir and her dragons? If the Ironborn can head out there on spec, why not a potential Targ loyalist with no particular loyalties to any current Westerosi house?

It's narratively useful as well as it provides Dany with a relatively loyal fleet to ferry her armies to Westeros. Personally I don't see her making friends with the Greyjoys.

[Ygrain]

Does anyone think he may have taken the fleet to the east to join the rumoured Targaryen heir and her dragons? If the Ironborn can head out there on spec, why not a potential Targ loyalist with no particular loyalties to any current Westerosi house?

It's narratively useful as well as it provides Dany with a relatively loyal fleet to ferry her armies to Westeros. Personally I don't see her making friends with the Greyjoys.

Now, wouldn't it be sweet if the ships Dany needs so much to conquer the Iron Throne were providedby the Lannisters themselves? :-)

[Morte]

Does anyone think he may have taken the fleet to the east to join the rumoured Targaryen heir and her dragons? If the Ironborn can head out there on spec, why not a potential Targ loyalist with no particular loyalties to any current Westerosi house?

It's narratively useful as well as it provides Dany with a relatively loyal fleet to ferry her armies to Westeros. Personally I don't see her making friends with the Greyjoys.

Agree. Also, since he's not on the wrong side of Westeros, it wouldn't take him that long to reach Dany.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I'm not sure that he's a Tyrell man. Technically he took off with "their" ships too, right? In the sense that the Small Council is now stacked with Tyrell men, the queen is a Tyrell and the Hand is a Tyrell and he's absconding with the royal fleet.

I think he's either batting for Stannis still (might he show up somewhere at an opportune time?!) or heading off on his own.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

Come to think of it, didn't Aurane raise the issue of dragons in the Small Council? I'm too lazy to look.