I looked for you… - who sent the Kingsguard to the Tower of Joy

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

As to Jon's parentage. It's true Bob's bastards have had a consistent look, but there's such a thing as the exception who proves the rule. And colouring/look of a child isn't entire proof. There's a certain young man who looks for all the world like a Targ', but it doesn't make it so.

It's not that Jon "doesn't look like Robert" (when ALL of Robert's real children do, but I'll let that slide). It's that he looks like a Stark. He has Stark blood in him somewhere. So which Stark would Robert have fathered Jon on, if he's Jon's father?

It can't be Lyanna because Jon was conceived AFTER Lyanna was kidnapped.

I've always wondered what the four "rat faced men" in the House of the Undying represent, and this is a good answer, but I always thought the visions go from future to past in chronological order (but I could be totally wrong).

- four rat faced men

- Red Wedding

- Dany’s house in Braavos with the red door

- Aerys and Jamie in the Red Keep before the kingslaying

- Rhaegar and Elia at Aegon’s birth

Because of that order, I always thought the four rat faced men with the girl will happen in the future (perhaps Dany’s fate in Meereen?).

The woman is Westeros and the four rats clawing at her and raping her are the four so-far surviving kings in the War of the Five Kings. At the time of the vision, Renly is already dead, so it's four rats and not five.

[LongclawGirl]

Don't we hear somewhere that it was fully Ned's decision to bury Lyanna in the family crypts because he loved her so much?

She is the only woman (not even a Queen of Winter) who is buried in the Stark family crypts with a stone likeness, and I just don't see that as being her last wish or lifelong dream. It seems like something very unprecedented that Ned wanted to do out of love and maybe the guilt he felt over loosing her. I'm not even sure if Brandon was supposed to be buried in the crypt as he wasn't really Lord of Winterfell since he and Lord Rickard died at the same time.

Do we ever learn what happens to the female, children and non Lord/King Starks when they die?

Or could it be that he needed to store something in a very safe place.....and with Lyanna's body in a sacred, stone crypt was the best place to do it? No one would ever look there......

[Gerold_Hightower]

Much can be inferred by the presence of the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard and two of his Brothers at the Tower of Joy. The Kingsguard are sworn to protect the King and his family and so if Rhaegar sent three of them to the TofJ then someone pretty significant must surely have been there.

But who sent the Kingsguard to the TofJ? They’re also sworn to obey the King’s orders and to keep his secrets.

R + L = J borders on hegemony in this parish. But in the interest of seeing all sides, and for the fun of it, I’d like to offer an alternative explanation of how that intriguing confrontation at the TofJ came to be.

Rhaegar left Lyanna at the TofJ to take command of the Royal Army. In the circumstances of a wide ranging civil war the Crown Prince would be traveling with part of the Kingsguard wherever he went. Whatever the relationship between Rhaegar & Lyanna, Rhaegar clearly wasn’t going to give her up. So he asks his friend Arthur Dayne to stay at the TofJ while he sorts out Bob Baratheon.

The exchange between Jamie Lannister and Rhaegar, as reported by Jamie, suggests that Rhaegar intended to take the government of the realm in hand. And was in a position to do so. But when he leaves to meet his doom his father remains in full control of Kings Landing and of the Targaryen loyalists. And was propbably suspicious of his son.

So, with Rhaegar gone Aerys summons his Lord Commander and says something along the lines of “I may be mad as a bag of cats, but I know Rhaegar’s up to something. Where’s Dayne? And Where’s the Stark girl?”. Ser Gerold tells him that he either knows or suspects that Ser Arthur is in the South guarding Lyanna. Aery’s likes a hostage so he keeps Ser Jamie at KL to discourage his father from getting involved and orders Ser Gerold to head South and fetch Lyanna.

The orders he gives him are something along the lines of: order Dayne back to KL with my hostage. Let’s see how bolshie Ned Stark is with his sister’s life on the line. And Robert for that matter. Take Whent and make sure he accompanies Dayne back. I don’t want him getting any ideas about running off to find my son. When that’s sorted head to Storm’s End and take Command. Mace Tyrell is beyond useless and I need those troops sometime this decade. Finally, if there’s any risk of the Stark girl escaping, being rescued or anything else going wrong then kill her.

Aery’s has got to love Lyanna Stark as a hostage. She provides leverage over Ned, Robert and his own son. Anyway, everything goes tits up for the Targaryens and somewhere on the road South the news reaches Ser Gerold & Ser Oswell. They join Ser Arthur at the TofJ and weigh up there options.

Most of the Targs are dead. There’s no army to rally. They can’t reach the survivors on Dragonstone. There’s no chance they’ll run or hide. Ned Stark will find his sister pretty quickly, so best to stay put and make their stand there. When they see the rescue party approach they carry out the Kings last order and kill Lyanna, then head out to meet them.

“We swore a vow”.

Lyanna was just a hostage. The Kingsguard end up there by happenstance and Ned promised Lyanna he’d take her body home. Or protect Robert. Or something else more mundane than “protect my half Targaryen son”.

Interesting theory. I would like to add, something not relevant to the topic, but correspondent to the whole picture.

Rhaegar seems obsessed with the prophecy, so he trusts one of his best friends, Arthur Dayne, letting him into his train of thought I guess, to protect Lyana and the child (though not confirmed she was pregnant)

Also there are indications he was prepared a coup to overthrow his father at the time.

Aerys sends Hightower and Whent to bring back Dayne and Lyanna. (I don't remember that detail, I have to go back and reread)

Rhaegar dies, and so does the king. Clegane kills Elia and her children

The news reach the Kingsguard, and remain at the place, though they could retreat deeper into Dorne, and possibly to the free cities.

My questions would be:

Why they remained there? Their opponents would eventually reach them and beat them - a short answer could be closure.

The Kingsguard obey the King. Shouldn't they return with Dayne and Lyanna (or attempt to at some point)? Did the news reached them the moment the KG reached TOJ so they remained there because they couldn't think of anything else?

How much did they knew about the supposedly coup Rhaegar prepared (I think it is connected to the prophecy)? Wouldn't that be treason for them?

Until the next books come out I think maybe it would be better to compare the KG to the BWB. Their King is also dead, but they do what their King believe he would.

[Gerold_Hightower]

Also, it would be a far fetced theory, but...

Rhaegar has impregnated Lyanna and waits for a child to complete the prophecy.

After the birth, he could, and probably would, overthrow his father.

Dayne is with him.

He already aware of a possible war, the abduction would trigger that.

The war breaks, Aerys sends his better men (Hightower, Whent) bring the hostage back, and make sure Dayne is not with the Prince. keypoint = Aerys probably wanted to win the war probably as much as he wanted Rhaegar dead, Rhaegar had a lot more of fans than him (he was mad, not stupid).

Rhaegar is back in KL, he does not need Hightower to reach him.

He takes the rest of the Kingsguard with him, except Jamie. Why? Because he knew that if somebody was to betray his oath was Jamie. Because he would eventually serve his House instead of the King.

The plan goes wrong and he dies, so does his father.

The hole is the Kingsguard agenda: are they on his alleged plan or not?

[EvilClosetMonkey]

However the three Kingsguard got to the ToJ, it seems to me that the only way it makes sense for them to still be there is if the new king is there. They basically insist to Ned that they are doing their duty by standing in his way. His questions indicate that he doesn't really understand how that is the case and he lists the places they should've been if that is the case. Once Ned enters the tower, he understands why they were there and this leads to his promises.

[Currawong]

Also, it would be a far fetced theory, but...

Rhaegar has impregnated Lyanna and waits for a child to complete the prophecy.

After the birth, he could, and probably would, overthrow his father.

Dayne is with him.

<snip>

The hole is the Kingsguard agenda: are they on his alleged plan or not?

That idea is interesting in the context of betrayal of KG vows. As a member of the KG, Ser Arthur Dayne is pledged to serve the king - which means Aerys. Not Prince Rhaegar, at least until Aerys dies.

So if Dayne (and possibly two other KG members) are intending to participate in a rebellion to overthrow the legitimate current king, where does that place them in terms of keeping their KG vows? How "honourable" would that make the revered Ser Arthur Dayne? Even if it wasn't to be a KG sword that would cut down Aerys, surely participating in any rebellion would mean breaking one's KG vows to the king?

[Winterfell is Burning]

Afraid to say it but there's a hole in your theory. When Jaime reminices on his conversation with Rhaegar, it's only him, Barristan and Darry left guarding the King. Then Barristan and Darry go with Rhaegar.

So Aerys would have to have ordered the LC away well Rhaegar was still there, something I'm not exactly sure would have worked

Actually, there's only Darry and him, but Martell and Barristan aren't mentioned. I don't know if Martell was already there or had already left with the Dornish troops, and is possible that Barristan was in the field as well.

[Humphrey Plantagenet]

The more I think about it the less I like the idea that 3xKingsguard=heir @ TofJ. I’m not aware of any evidence that Rhaegar was planning to put aside the rest of his family in order to make a potential new son heir to the throne or a promised prince or anything else. Only that he wanted to get a grip on his father’s government and he was looking to fulfil a prophecy with 3 kids. Royals are always acutely aware of the delicate nature of deference, so surely the Crown Prince would be aiming at a Regency deal rather than a deposition. And even if he wants to remove rather than curb his mad, bad father I don’t know of any reason for him to put aside Aegon for a child of Lyanna’s.

The point I’m driving at is a new born heir at the TofJ is behind Aerys, Rhaegar and Aegon in the line of succession. The only way the 3 kingsguard are there to protect their king is if the other 3 are dead…and that’s only more likely if half the kingsguard are occupied protecting Lyanna. That’s stupid and/or selfish. Rhaegar headed North because of the threat Bob B had become. So leaving 3 of the Kingsguard way down South while the war is North of KL is stupid. Particularly if one is the Lord Commander.

The dire consequences of splits in the KG have been discussed in the novels. I don’t believe Aerys’ seven all obeyed Rhaegar over their King and especially not the Lord Commander. So I think there was one of those so very dangerous splits in the KG. I can see Dayne being loyal to Rhaegar and being intrusted to keep Lyanna (&child possibly) safe, but only Dayne. A sound argument has been made that, if Rhaegar wanted to start building support to control (or usurp) his father at Harrenhal that Whent must have been party to it. At which point I return to my idea that Aerys wanted Lyanna and told his loyal Lord Commander to find her & Dayne. Aerys & his LC would have suspected Whent of being part of Rhaegar’s clique and so knew he was their best way to find the TofJ, Dayne & Lyanna.

The movement of members of the KG in the field commanding armies and the timing of Rhaegar’s return have been at least partly revealed but I don’t recall any info on the absentees other than they ended up at the TofJ. Their King was not there till all the other disasters befell the royal family so I don’t believe Rhaegar had simply sent them all there at the same time to protect the rightful King.

Who sent the KG to the TofJ? I think both the king & prince and I think it indicates a split in Aerys’ seven. R+L may = J but there weren’t 3 members of the KG at the TofJ simply because the “true king” was there. In fact if somebody they considered their king was there then their fatalistic sacrificing of themselves is unforgiveable. The dialogue shows they knew about all the disasters that had befallen the Targs and that the survivors of the royal family were on Dragonstone. If their King is in the TofJ their duty was to get him to safety by any means they could, not to satisfy their honour. They regularly chose loyalty over honour as insiders at Aerys’ court. One of them could have attempted to get the “king” in to hiding and eventually safety whilst the other 2 went down fitting at the TofJ to help keep him safe from the traitor and rebel Ned Stark.

[Dragonfish]

The more I think about it the less I like the idea that 3xKingsguard=heir @ TofJ. I’m not aware of any evidence that Rhaegar was planning to put aside the rest of his family in order to make a potential new son heir to the throne or a promised prince or anything else.

No one is arguing that. We do think Rhaegar probably ordered them to stay, but not necessarily to protect the heir. More likely he was trying to protect the child he believed would be the PWWP, or one of the three heads.

What people are arguing is that the Kingsguard's continued presence at the ToJ after the deaths of Rhaegar, Aerys, and Aegon shows that the true heir was with them, which means Jon was somehow made legitimate. The most common explanation for this is that Rhaegar married Lyanna, thereby placing Jon in the line of succession.

The point I’m driving at is a new born heir at the TofJ is behind Aerys, Rhaegar and Aegon in the line of succession. The only way the 3 kingsguard are there to protect their king is if the other 3 are dead…and that’s only more likely if half the kingsguard are occupied protecting Lyanna. That’s stupid and/or selfish. Rhaegar headed North because of the threat Bob B had become. So leaving 3 of the Kingsguard way down South while the war is North of KL is stupid. Particularly if one is the Lord Commander.

You can call it stupid all you want, that doesn't mean it's not what happened. The Kingsguard don't get to question their orders, no matter how stupid they may seem.

[PatrickStormborn]

However the three Kingsguard got to the ToJ, it seems to me that the only way it makes sense for them to still be there is if the new king is there. They basically insist to Ned that they are doing their duty by standing in his way. His questions indicate that he doesn't really understand how that is the case and he lists the places they should've been if that is the case. Once Ned enters the tower, he understands why they were there and this leads to his promises.

They would still remain if Rhaegar had instructed them to do so. As Martin has said, the Kingsguard have to follow orders -- they don't just make up their own. This works with Dayne's line that the Kingsguard do not flee.

[Currawong]

They would still remain if Rhaegar had instructed them to do so.

But Rhaegar was not the King. Aerys was.

So why follow Rhaegar's orders?

[PatrickStormborn]

But Rhaegar was not the King. Aerys was.

So why follow Rhaegar's orders?

Maybe you should have looked at the link I provided:

Shaw: Can you explain why the King's Guard chose to stand and fight Ned at the Tower of the Joy instead of protecting the remaining royal family members?

Martin: The King's Guards don't get to make up their own orders. They serve the king, they protect the king and the royal family, but they're also bound to obey their orders, and if Prince Rhaegar gave them a certain order, they would do that. They can't say, "No we don't like that order, we'll do something else."

[Humphrey Plantagenet]

Maybe you should have looked at the link I provided:

Shaw: Can you explain why the King's Guard chose to stand and fight Ned at the Tower of the Joy instead of protecting the remaining royal family members?

Martin: The King's Guards don't get to make up their own orders. They serve the king, they protect the king and the royal family, but they're also bound to obey their orders, and if Prince Rhaegar gave them a certain order, they would do that. They can't say, "No we don't like that order, we'll do something else."

So Rhaegar is ordering the KG around rather than the king. It is possible, but I think a split amongts the KG more likley.

The KG knew what had happend to the royal family. If Rhaegar had given them orders to protect an heir, promised prince etc then they made a bad job of it. "I'm heading off to deal with Robert, if things go wrong protect x" would be fine, if they're all follwoing Rhaeger not Aerys, but why do it by fighting to the death at the TofJ?

[kg1982]

My theory is that there were some schisms in the KG about what to do about Aerys. I think that both Dayne and Whent might have been supporting Rhaegar while some of the others might have been supporting Aerys.

[carmela28]

Up to this point it's a good hypothesis. It is a better explanation of why there were 3 KG at the ToJ than the normal story. It also treats Aerys' actions more realistically...

This doesn't work very well. It doesn't explain where Ned got Jon from. (Ned committing adultery just isn't very believable.) It doesn't explain why Ned is still obsessed about his oath to Lyanna.

But I like your explanation of how Hightower and Whent got to the ToJ.

My theory is that there were some schisms in the KG about what to do about Aerys. I think that both Dayne and Whent might have been supporting Rhaegar while some of the others might have been supporting Aerys.

Agree. Dayne was basically Rhaegar's wingman so its entirely possible that he would support him. From what we know of Whent's role in the Harrenhal tourney, he may have supported Rhaegar as well.

As far as the original theory proposed, I like the idea that Aerys knew/suspected that Rhaegar was with Lyanna and that Dayne was probably with them as well. I also like the suggestion that he sent Hightower and Whent to bring all of them back to KL. I have always wondered if Aerys knew about Lyanna and realized that she would be a valuable hostage for him. It is logical that he would send his most trusted sword, Hightower, to bring her (and everyone else) back. And, as we know, it was too little, too late.

However, I believe that R+L=J. I believe that Lyanna was there willingly. And if that is the case, then, in the end, the 3 KG were doing their duty...which was guarding the king (Jon). It may not have been Hightower and Whent's original intention but, by the time they arrived, everything had gone to hell for the Targaryens.

One last comment to Humphrey Plantagenet: thanks for making me laugh today. I love these lines:

- I may be mad as a bag of cats

- Mace Tyrell is beyond useless

- everything goes tits up for the Targaryens

[Humphrey Plantagenet]

The Kingsguard would be bound to fulfil an order given by Rhaegar. And would feel honour bound to lay down their lives to do so with the last orders he gave. But I still don’t think that the 3 KG at the TofJ were acting on the same orders or received them from the same source.

Many might think it’s not really important, the fact remains that there were 3 KG at the TofJ and so surely something pretty special was being guarded. But I keep thinking on it because, apart from the whole incident being incredibly intriguing, why the KG were there and what they thought their duty was is wrapped up with who was inside the TofJ.

It seems to me that if the KG were there to protect Lyanna, and potentially his child with her, then Rhaegar must have wanted her/them protected from his father. Not Robert/Ned/rebels in general. Given the location of the TofJ and the situation of the war, they only way Rhaegar risks losing possession of Lyanna & child is through the utter defeat that in the end materialised. In possession of the kind of certainty people who think they are fulfilling prophecies have I don’t think this was on his mind. He’d gone North to “deal” with Robert. But even if he held fears that defeat was possible, and even the kind of complete and final defeat that occurred, he can’t have thought any number of KG knights would be able to protect Lyanna & child from an enemy army that had won a complete victory. Any other kind of victory and the TofJ isn’t under any threat.

But he must have feared his father would take any opportunity to take possession of Lyanna. She’d be a perfect hostage and if at Kings Landing would make an attack on the city very, very unlikely. Rhaegar’s been in the South with Lyanna and no doubt a small group of his closest friends. He realises he must go North and take control of the war effort. But doesn’t want to risk Lyanna being in the clutches of his father, who doesn’t trust his son and will use her as leverage over his him as much Bob & Ned. So he goes North and leaves Lyanna with his most trusted friend(s).

Arthur Dayne was surely a companion of Rhaegar’s while he was in the South and man he would trust to protect Lyanna & child from Aerys. A case for Oswell Whent can be made because of the choice of Harrenhal as venue for the tourney that roused Aerys from his isolation in the Red Keep. But I find it hard to believe that whilst a rebellion was raging the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard was hanging out with Rhaegar whilst he absented himself from the war. The LC would surely have kept himself with the king and as a member of the small council would have been in KL unless called away to lead an army. Hightower had served Aerys for many, many years and knew him before he went nutty, so the bond of personal loyalty would surely prevent him from switching loyalty to Rhaegar. And as a member of an older generation I can’t see him as one of Rhaegar’s band of buddies.

So I really do think that LC Hightower was sent to the TofJ by Aerys, not Rhaegar, as an attempt to bring Lyanna to KL. And that Arthur Dayne was there by order/request of Rhaegar. Oswell went I can go either way on but I favour him arriving with Hightower. I think whilst keeping away from the war and the immediate danger Rhaegar would only have 1 member of the KG with him and that would be Dayne. Aerys & his LC are suspicious of Whent after the Tourney at Harrenhal and think it likely he has knowledge of Rhaegar’s plans, friends and hideaways. And so lean on him when they decide to seek out Lyanna.

So the KG is dangerously split because of loyalties to both King and Prince. The 3 members who Ned finds at the TofJ have different loyalties and have received different orders. Dayne is protecting Lyanna from a king who is dead and Hightower is there to retrieve her for a king who is dead. Whent may be feeling split in his loyalties and be following the lead of his LC. If Lyanna is just about to give birth to Rhaegar’s child then I think this is the first that Hightower and Whent know about it. Dayne may have been convinced that the child is the prince who was promised or have knowledge of a wedding that makes him or her a true born heir. Whent may have been a supporter of Rhaegar in a bid to rein in his dangerous dad, but as he’s not a confidant of the Prince he knows nothing about prophecies or secret marriages. Hightower certainly wouldn’t. What does Dayne tell them? Would they think a marriage made whilst Rhaegar was married to Elia Martell is valid? What did the make of the prophecy? It was rather a lot to take in. The three may have had very different views.

But why do I care? Well I think it hints at who was being born and what they’re destined to do. Or whether or not they have a “destiny”. The three KG couldn’t change was what had happened on the Trident, at Kings Landing and at Storms End. What they decide to do is formed by who they think they have inside the TofJ. Dayne may have been asked to protect an heir or a saviour, but if he was it was from Aerys not Ned. The other two were there to bring Lyanna to Aerys. The three of them had not been ordered to guard the TofJ at all costs because it contained the future of the dynasty or the saviour of the world. If there was a child in the TofJ the three of them may have had very different views about what it represented. But with the dynasty they’d sworn a vow to protect utterly destroyed they would not run, they stood and fought to the death to fulfil the oath they had taken.

So the child of Rhaegar and Lyanna will never be recognised as a legitimate Targaryen and isn’t destined to finish the series on the throne. They won’t be recognised as the = of R+L and even if they discover the truth of their own heritage won’t tell anybody else about it. It’s a tantalizing detail and explains the actions of key members of the generation who created the current state of affairs. But that’s all. And nuts to the prophecy.

[Mad Maj]

I'm more and more convinced that the real baby Aegon was with Arthur Dayne for safe-keeping. That's why the KG's were definitely doing their duty by protecting the legitimate heir, which is surely what they understood their orders to be. Whether the other two were with Dayne all along or arrived later, and whether or not Aerys knew the Baby Aegon that remained in Kings Landing was a substitute, at whatever point they became aware that the real baby Aegon was in that room with Lyanna (and Wylla the nursemaid), they would have had no problem accepting that their roles were to protect that baby to the death. Lyanna's baby, who may not have been born until the day Ned arrived, was secondary - they would not have known for sure her baby would be male. It also does not matter if Rhaegar & Lyanna were officially married or not, or whether the KG's knew that or not (although I believe L&R did marry and that Dayne, at least, knew it).

They were not worried that Ned was going to go into that room and kill his beloved sister, or her newborn baby with Rhaegar. They were worried about the other baby, Aegon. His very existence had to remain a secret. Even if every man that went in there decided they could not kill a baby, as soon as word of his existence got out, Robert would have rooted him out and killed him. If Tywin Lannister didn't do it first. The only people who left that tower knowing the truth were Ned, Howland Reed and Arthur Dayne. Ned promised the dying Lyanna that he would look after her newborn, and probably didn't even have to promise to bury her in the family crypt as a Queen in Rhaegar's wedding cloak. Ned would have done that anyway out of love and respect for his sister who was, however briefly and secretly, a Queen of Westeros. (I first saw the wedding cloak idea reading this thread, and I love it!)

Arthur Dayne took Aegon to be raised in Dorne as Darkstar and Dawn is nearby in Starfall waiting for him. I think it was Brandon Stark who knocked up Ashara at the tourney in Harrenhall, and one of the reasons Ned went to Starfall, besides the cover story of returning the sword, was to see his new niece or nephew. And also to stabilize Lyanna's newborn with Wylla before dragging him back through war-torn Westeros to Winterfell. So, the wolfish Brandon would have been the one who "dishonored" Ashara, Ned stays pure, and Septon Lemore has stretch marks because she had Brandon's baby (but I still don't get what she's doing with fake Aegon, but I digress). Jon growing up to take the Black is so in character, because he IS a second son. He is also, figuratively anyway, the dragon who was sleeping at Winterfell.

I agree with everyone who is saying that Doran Martell has a major card to play, and there is no way GRRM wasted all that time on the Dorne story if it was leading to Darkstar being Aegon. It would make sense for him also to be the Prince who was Promised, because he has access to the most magical of swords, Dawn, which is synonomous with the Bringer of Light. The Sword of the Morning is the person who wields it, and that is not a hereditary title - it is known. So he can rightfully claim it even if he is not really a Dayne. (Yes, Dany could also, but right now I think Darkstar). Ok, now my head is spinning again, and I best go spend some time in the real world . . .

[Mad Maj]

"there is no way GRRM wasted all that time on the Dorne story if it was NOT leading to Darkstar being Aegon" is what I meant to say - don't know how to edit yet . . .

[Humphrey Plantagenet]

I'm more and more convinced that the real baby Aegon was with Arthur Dayne for safe-keeping. That's why the KG's were definitely doing their duty by protecting the legitimate heir, which is surely what they understood their orders to be. Whether the other two were with Dayne all along or arrived later, and whether or not Aerys knew the Baby Aegon that remained in Kings Landing was a substitute, at whatever point they became aware that the real baby Aegon was in that room with Lyanna (and Wylla the nursemaid), they would have had no problem accepting that their roles were to protect that baby to the death. Lyanna's baby, who may not have been born until the day Ned arrived, was secondary - they would not have known for sure her baby would be male. It also does not matter if Rhaegar & Lyanna were officially married or not, or whether the KG's knew that or not (although I believe L&R did marry and that Dayne, at least, knew it).

They were not worried that Ned was going to go into that room and kill his beloved sister, or her newborn baby with Rhaegar. They were worried about the other baby, Aegon. His very existence had to remain a secret. Even if every man that went in there decided they could not kill a baby, as soon as word of his existence got out, Robert would have rooted him out and killed him. If Tywin Lannister didn't do it first. The only people who left that tower knowing the truth were Ned, Howland Reed and Arthur Dayne. Ned promised the dying Lyanna that he would look after her newborn, and probably didn't even have to promise to bury her in the family crypt as a Queen in Rhaegar's wedding cloak. Ned would have done that anyway out of love and respect for his sister who was, however briefly and secretly, a Queen of Westeros. (I first saw the wedding cloak idea reading this thread, and I love it!)

Arthur Dayne took Aegon to be raised in Dorne as Darkstar and Dawn is nearby in Starfall waiting for him. I think it was Brandon Stark who knocked up Ashara at the tourney in Harrenhall, and one of the reasons Ned went to Starfall, besides the cover story of returning the sword, was to see his new niece or nephew. And also to stabilize Lyanna's newborn with Wylla before dragging him back through war-torn Westeros to Winterfell. So, the wolfish Brandon would have been the one who "dishonored" Ashara, Ned stays pure, and Septon Lemore has stretch marks because she had Brandon's baby (but I still don't get what she's doing with fake Aegon, but I digress). Jon growing up to take the Black is so in character, because he IS a second son. He is also, figuratively anyway, the dragon who was sleeping at Winterfell.

I agree with everyone who is saying that Doran Martell has a major card to play, and there is no way GRRM wasted all that time on the Dorne story if it was leading to Darkstar being Aegon. It would make sense for him also to be the Prince who was Promised, because he has access to the most magical of swords, Dawn, which is synonomous with the Bringer of Light. The Sword of the Morning is the person who wields it, and that is not a hereditary title - it is known. So he can rightfully claim it even if he is not really a Dayne. (Yes, Dany could also, but right now I think Darkstar). Ok, now my head is spinning again, and I best go spend some time in the real world . . .

Interesting idea. In this scenario is Doran going along with a plan of Rhaegar’s to smuggle Aegon in to hiding despite being pissed off at him for humiliating his sister? Or does the Dornish attitude to romance mean he’s not bothered by Rhaegar’s relationship with Lyanna?

Or did Doran not know about the Aegon switcharoo until after the sack of KL/murder of Elia and simply keep the info under his hat until now? Because if he did, why didn’t he plan to marry Arianne to Aegon instead of Viserys?

The idea that Rhaegar is hiding more than Lyanna at the TofJ is perfectly possible. And it could even be Aegon I suppose. But how is Doran Martell involved?

[Mad Maj]

I don't think Doran Martell knew that the real Aegon was not with Elia in Kings Landing, until after Arthur Dayne brought the baby to him. Since Elia was Aegon's mother, maybe he doesn't want to marry his daugher to her first cousin? Or maybe he doesn't think he needs to - that Aegon is already so in his pocket, that marrying his daughter to Viserys is an additional tie to the throne - after all, Aegon & Viserys each have a 50/50 chance of going mad, so it would be smart to have a Plan A and a Plan B. And Quentyn & Daenarys as Plan C.

Dayne would know that Martell would protect little Aegon with everything he had, and Elia's miraculously surviving baby would be absolutely treasured by that family. The Martells don't have to worry about all their heirs being mostly female and mostly illegitimate, because they already have the ace up their sleeves, and two more in the on-deck circle. The Sand Snakes sound like their whole purpose is to end up in Kings Landing protecting the hell out of Aegon, and/or Mrs. Viserys and/or Mr. Daenarys - all Martells. So, yeah, now Plans B & C are out, so maybe now he's thinking Arianne marrying her first cousin might not be that gross . . . but again, not really necessary, because who is Aegon/Darkstar's only loyalty to? House Martell.

Oh, and I'm sure Young Griff is only a decoy, because the knight he is with is named Duck. I haven't figured out why Ashara would be with him, if she is in fact Septon Lemore, but I'm starting to think once Dayne safely delivered Aegon, maybe Martell killed Dayne to ensure the secret stayed secret? That maybe he suspected Ned or Arthur Dayne or Wylla spilled the beans to Ashara, so after she lost her own baby (with Brandon) he sent her off with "Little Griff" so she could nurse and raise him, and if anyone ever slipped up and word got out that baby Aegon was still floating around, everyone would go off after this decoy boy. And letting Young Griff "come out" first as Aegon will draw out both his enemies and his supporters, so Martelll will have a good idea who will and who won't support the Darkstar before he is exposed. Liking it more and more . . .