Hitting your kid...

[Minaku]

Very true. It's best to just step away when you are angry and take a moment. The thing that made you angry may not make you angry when you're clear-headed.

[Isalie]

Yes, parents can easily be abusive without beating their children, just as spanking isn't necessarily abusive.

The moral issue aside though, I think that most times there are more effective/better ways to discipline your children without (possibly) causing them to fear you.

[Isalie]

I was waiting for someone to say this. Sometimes people forget that taking care of a child 24/7 (at least for the stay at home parent) and never really getting any decent sleep leads to very frayed nerves and a lack of patience. On the days when I can barely function because my child has kept me up all night I just have to put him in the crib for a few minutes to gain some composure. But trust me, the frustration and anger are still there only because my mind and body can barely keep up.

Yes, it is easy to understand why people snap, even though it can never be condoned. Putting them in the crib or something similar is obviously the better way to deal with the frustration.

[Sci-2]

I'm curious, people with kids - do you have positive and negative reinforcement? I've wondered if rewarded rewarding a child for good behavior and punishing them for the bad would be more effective.

[Isalie]

I'm curious, people with kids - do you have positive and negative reinforcement? I've wondered if rewarded rewarding a child for good behavior and punishing them for the bad would be more effective.

I find rewarding much more effective, both are needed though.

[Nukelavee]

Lyanna - Hey, I never said you should spank your kid. I did, however, say what you tried, didn't work. My enlightened idea? Take you and your kid out to the car, and sit there till she calms down, or go home. Or don't take her shopping with you...That's how my sister does it, because her son is autistic....and, yes, it means she has to put off shopping quite often.

I mean, maybe the issue was that you put shopping over the priority of her, nap? I dunno.

Oh, I'm sorry, am I putting other's ahead of your needs? But that's a whole other topic - Should we have to deal with monster children in public if they aren't ours? Had I been there, I likely would have been pretty sympathetic, but it would have depended on how I percieved you at that moment

Your kid is, what, 2.5? You have to accept that, sometimes, that trumps errands. It also means that the kid is going to grow up, and be easier to reason with, and that you'll change your techniques to match her. I'm not being condescending, I think you will - I don't think you're a bad parent.

But, if I can't make a call on you for handling you child one way, you can't simply judge others for their style.

Unless, y'know, it does involve leaving the kid locked in a car or traumatising it.

Somehow, this makes me think of my friend from growing up, Kevin. Kevin's parents DID beat him and his sister...and one day, Kev killed them. Of course, it wasn't the beatings that led to it..it was 18 years of sexual abuse.

Honestly - do what works for your child. Do what it takes to make a good person, because if you fail, we have to deal with it.

[Angalin]

Lyanna - Hey, I never said you should spank your kid. I did, however, say what you tried, didn't work. My enlightened idea? Take you and your kid out to the car, and sit there till she calms down, or go home. Or don't take her shopping with you...That's how my sister does it, because her son is autistic....and, yes, it means she has to put off shopping quite often.

I mean, maybe the issue was that you put shopping over the priority of her, nap? I dunno.

I'm fairly sure Lyanna followed up her post by explaining that the child was fed, wasn't tired, the grocery shop had to be done and there was no one else to do it, and the child still screamed. This sort of thing happens fairly regularly with 2-3 year olds and sometimes there`s no other choice but to endure it if you want, eg, to eat dinner that night. :dunno: It`s the nature of the beast, unfortunately, or at least of some of them.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

Lyanna - Hey, I never said you should spank your kid. I did, however, say what you tried, didn't work. My enlightened idea? Take you and your kid out to the car, and sit there till she calms down, or go home. Or don't take her shopping with you...That's how my sister does it, because her son is autistic....and, yes, it means she has to put off shopping quite often.

I mean, maybe the issue was that you put shopping over the priority of her, nap? I dunno.

Oh, I'm sorry, am I putting other's ahead of your needs? But that's a whole other topic - Should we have to deal with monster children in public if they aren't ours? Had I been there, I likely would have been pretty sympathetic, but it would have depended on how I percieved you at that moment

Your kid is, what, 2.5? You have to accept that, sometimes, that trumps errands. It also means that the kid is going to grow up, and be easier to reason with, and that you'll change your techniques to match her. I'm not being condescending, I think you will - I don't think you're a bad parent.

Look, I sort of get where you are coming from, but honestly, let's be realistic for a moment. Groceries need to be shopped for. As the parent of two nearly two-year-olds, I completely empathize with both sides of this. I actually do almost ALL of my shopping online (including and especially grocery) because I can and because it's too difficult otherwise. However, I can. There is an excellent grocery delivery service in NYC. If there wasn't, I'd either have to pay for a babysitter to do the shopping (unrealistic), one of us would have to shop while the other stayed with the kids (also somewhat unrealistic because my husband has to travel for work so much), or occasionally inflict toddlers on the world at large. Either that or subsist on takeout (also unrealistic - that's EXPENSIVE). Even with FreshDirect, I still have to inflict (hopefully well-prepared) toddlers on the greater population (and not just playgrounds and pediatricians offices) from time to time - sometimes stuff just has to get done and there's no other way to do it. Sometimes that means there is a public meltdown. Sometimes I can leave, sometimes I can't. Much better to laugh about it (before and after) than the alternatives.

[Nukelavee]

I read that, but... still, sometimes children require making a meal of, well, carpet treats.

Yes, it's unfair to single out Lyanna over that, but I've also seen way too many superfically similar scenes where it her situation wasn't the case.

Still - Sorry, Lyanna. I shouldn't project on topics like that.

[Angalin]

I'd just like to quote the immortal words of Mya Stone here: "There's a reason some animals eat their young" - although in her case it wasn't because they'd made it impossible to go grocery shopping that day. ;)

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Yes, there are a lot of big cross-cultural differences on this one.

In the USA, on the other hand, it's often been stated that objecting to physical punishment of children is often effectively being racist, because African-American culture tends to be much more in favor of corporal punishment that White American culture is.

Really? I wasn't aware of that. I suppose there is the stereotype of the "black mama" swatting an unruly kid, but I've always thought that was something of a positive stereotype of a strong woman who cares about what happens to her kids.

[Balefont]

I think it's time for some people to STFU.

[Kalbear]

On hitting kids: there is some points where you must communicate to your child in the only way that will work IMMEDIATELY that there is something to be avoided. For instance, if your child is about to run into a street and keeps trying to regardless of you saying 'no' or whatever. In those cases reasoning with them, punishing them, those things may not work.

And that's when spanking can work, because it can create an immediate association with the behavior and pain.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

What are you basing this on? Several people here have told stories that counter your statement. I will add my name to the list of people who were occasionally spanked without any adverse consequences. I trusted my parents completely and never feared them.

There is a very large difference between spanking out of anger or lack of self control and spanking to correct wrongful and dangerous behavior. Your statement may be true of the former, but doubtful of the latter.

Every situation is different and there are particular circumstances to take into account when deciding the proper form of discipline. What may be best for your child may not be best for another's. I personally feel that spanking should be limited to extreme situations where a kid is either in danger himself (Lany's examples) or puts another person in danger (I.e putting a pillow over a baby's head).

I see nothing wrong with a child fearing the consequences of doing something he/she knows he/she should not be doing. I wasn't spanked/hit all that much as a kid, but when I was, I knew I deserved it. If a kid gets a swat, and subjectively knows he/she really deserved it, then I don't see any real possibility of lasting harm.

It's when kids are getting spanked unfairly that I think you get problems. So, if you reserve it for the most egregious stuff, I don't think it's a problem. At least, it wasn't with me. I remember dropping the f-bomb in front of my grandmother when I was about 8, and my mom whacked my ass and then did the soap in mouth trick. And the thing was that I knew I really didn't have any cause to complain.

[Nukelavee]

Yeah, FLoW said it well.

And Balefont needs some quiet time.

[Balefont]

Going through the thread, I noticed that more men than women advocate spankings.

[Balefont]

I see nothing wrong with a child fearing the consequences of doing something he/she knows he/she should not be doing. I wasn't spanked/hit all that much as a kid, but when I was, I knew I deserved it. If a kid gets a swat, and subjectively knows he/she really deserved it, then I don't see any real possibility of lasting harm.

It's when kids are getting spanked unfairly that I think you get problems. So, if you reserve it for the most egregious stuff, I don't think it's a problem. At least, it wasn't with me. I remember dropping the f-bomb in front of my grandmother when I was about 8, and my mom whacked my ass and then did the soap in mouth trick. And the thing was that I knew I really didn't have any cause to complain.

Maybe you only needed the soap without the whack. :P

[Relic]

I remember dropping the f-bomb in front of my grandmother when I was about 8, and my mom whacked my ass and then did the soap in mouth trick. And the thing was that I knew I really didn't have any cause to complain.

So you get hit and gagged with a bar of soap for using a common word as a small child. Seem like an excessive use of force to me.

What do you think you would be like if you hadn't ever been beaten or hurt by a trusted beloved parental figure as a child?

[Happy Ent]

Unnecessarily divisive, Balefont. If it makes you feel better, I advocate not hitting children, too.

In particular, I find arguments from absence of negative consequences (trauma, etc.) not valid. By analogy, the reason to argue against, spanking your wife is not the absence of lasting trauma. (Similar analogy can be made to sexual harassment, which doesn’t make anybody pregnant, after all.)

You shouldn’t hit the people you’re supposed to love and protect. On the list of people you should hit, your own children should be at the very bottom. After your boss, traffic participants, public figures, certain fantasy authors, random mothers in supermarkets, your family, and your spouse, in no particular order. Since you’d hit none of those people, you shouldn’t hit your children either.

[Angalin]

Maybe you only needed the soap without the whack. :P

The last time a friend tried the soap-in-mouth trick (her children are grown now), her son took himself to the front step and sat there blowing bubbles straight out of his mouth for the entertainment of the neighbourhood children. She had to hide in the kitchen to laugh where he couldn't see her.

eta: HE, les entartistes would disagree with you about the merits of pie-ing public figures, but I don't equate a lemon meringue pie in the face with a spanking.