Lord of the north and The Riverlands?

[the wolf warg]

If a Stark does return to rule the north(any of the 4 we know for fact to be alive bran,rickon,arya,sansa) do u think that they will control the north and the riverlands as rob did or would the tullys be restored to lords of the riverlands edmure was spared by jamie and is on his way to casterly rock?

[therustman]

I think Edmure will die which then gives the Starks a good claim to the Riverlands anyway.

[Fire Eater]

I think the Tullys will be restored to the Lords Paramount of the Riverlands. The Starks will keep Winterfell and the North.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

I think the Tullys will be restored to the Lords Paramount of the Riverlands. The Starks will keep Winterfell and the North.

I think the Tully's will be restored to Riverrun but not necessarily as Lords Paramount of the Riverlands. I still think that a Victarian led iron born will have a big part to play in this war. I could easily see Harrenhal and the Riverlands being granted back to the ironmen, especially if Dany weds Victarian.

[Ice Eyes]

Historically, the Riverlands has been the setting for a significant amount of bloodshed and war, whether the Riverlords themselves are active participants in the conflicts or not. As a result, their ruling families changed fairly frequently compared to most other families like the Starks, Lannisters, Arryns or Martells who retained unquestioned rule of their kingdoms for thousands of years. Even the Tully's only rose to power by adding their banners to Aegon's Conquest and being subsequently rewarded for it under the new Targaryen rulership.

The War of the Five Kings had another devastating impact on the riverlands. Edmure, the sole surviving heir to the Tully's is a prisoner, with his enduring safety and inheritance not entirely assured. His wife and unborn child belong to a family who has unjustly seized rule of the riverlands and is reviled by virtually every other house in the region due to their part in the Red Wedding. This gives them only tenuous control over their subjects at best, which is further weakened by their not being considered Overlords of the region due to the Iron Throne awarding that title to Littlefinger.

Basically, in the wake of one war which severely weakened the region, and with several others looming ahead (Aegon's invasion, Ironborn ambitions, Dany's potential invasion, Winter and the Others, not to mention Lady Stoneheart and Arya's wolfpack causing general chaos in the area) I think the Riverlands will be up for grabs again pretty soon.

In regards to the OP, I think Sansa could be in the best position of anyone (Stark siblings or otherwise) to seize the Riverlands and bring it under rule, when you consider Littlefinger being Lord Paramount of the region in name, with the power of the Vale largely under his control. With his political and military backing, and Sansa being not only an heir to their erstwhile King of the North and Riverlands, but also a scion of house Tully who has always favoured her Tully heritage much more than any of her siblings, I think her role in the reunification and eventual rulership of the riverlands becomes quite plausible.

Purely speculating here: but assuming these events came to pass, and Sansa retained the backing of the Vale, while ruling the Riverlands and possibly receiving support from the North (if they're in any fit state to help), this could make her a pretty impressive marriage candidate for an ambitious young man like Aegon looking to seat himself on the Iron Throne and bring the rest of the Seven Kingdoms under his rule. This would make her Queen of the North and Riverlands, as well as every other kingdom who submits. And again while this is all purely speculation, it could be congruent with House Tully's history of rising to power during wartime through alliance with invading dragons.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I think it depends on who takes control and how it goes in King's Landing. Myself, I see an eventual Stark-Tully kingdom made up of the North, the Riverlands and possibly the Vale, depending on whether Sansa married Harry the Heir. I see Sansa getting Riverrun (I don't expect Edmure or his child to ultimately survive), Rickon getting Winterfell and Jon being a King in the North.

[Jory]

Sansa will marry Stannis and they will all live grumpily ever after.

[the wolf warg]

I think it depends on who takes control and how it goes in King's Landing. Myself, I see an eventual Stark-Tully kingdom made up of the North, the Riverlands and possibly the Vale, depending on whether Sansa married Harry the Heir. I see Sansa getting Riverrun (I don't expect Edmure or his child to ultimately survive), Rickon getting Winterfell and Jon being a King in the North.

you think jon could be king of the north while rickon rules winterfell? whoever ruled the north would rule winterfell its been that way for the entire history of the north, also i think bran will return i dont see him being a tree for the rest of his life, so he would be first in line to rule unless he gets killed again i think this is highly unlikely but i see bran as ruler of winterfell and maybe allowing rickon to rule the riverland. as for sansa i think if she survives she could be the piece that ties the starks to whoever wins the iron throne or whoever rules the vale in the end, basically what u said just my own interpretation

[Lady Octarina]

Sansa will marry Stannis and they will all live grumpily ever after.

They would just love that.

Back to topic, I think it's highly unlikely that they will let whoever rules the North get Riverrun as well, just as unlikely as the idea that whoever gets the Eyrie can stay in control of those lands too. It would give anyone too much power, something the rest of Westeros wouldn't accept whether they remain one kingdom or many. It's far too dangerous. And I'm among those that think Edmure and his family will all be killed sooner than later, maybe at crazy-Cersei's command? So, yes, I think the Riverlands will be given to someone who provides great aid to the one who will win this war. Unless the Blackfish claims it, which is very unlikely.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

For the Riverlands to stay with the North, they'd need either the Vale or better the Iron Islands, preferably both. The Neck is a natural border, the passes to the Vale too. Trade (and the force to hold the regions together) would flow along the Maidenpool-Gulltown-Sisters-White Harbour route in the east and the Seagard-Iron Islands-Sea Dragon Point-Deepwood Motte-Bear Island route in the West.

Otherwise, the Riverlands will go to either the Crownlands or the Westerlands in a few generations, as has happened for thousands of years.

Fortunately, there is a Stark ready to take charge in the North, the Riverlands and the Vale, and Asha Greyjoy may be reasonable and rescue the Ironborn into a great Northern Empire.

It all depends on the Iron Throne becoming obsolete, but I consider that a very likely result of the books.

[TheGreatjon]

Yeah I would love to see a Northern Kingdom consisting of the Vale, Riverlands and of course the North. Its not that far fetched, obviously the reason we include the Vale is Sansa's potential marriage to Harry the Heir, so thats contingent on alot of things happening, but I can see the Vale rallying too the North's cause, we know that many of the Vales bannermen have Northern sympathies (maybe from Ned Starks time as a ward in the Vale) mainly Yohn Royce (if i'm not mistaken he is the character i'm thinking off) who practically begged Lysa Tully to enter the war on behalf of Robb Stark, so if whoever takes the reigns in the North can take advantage of having those allys (the Royces and there vassals, and of course Harry the Heir, which would include the Waynwoods considering he was fostered by lady Waynwood, and all there vassals)then they might be able to do it, hey obviously I understand this is alot of stuff that needs to happen, I'm just projecting.

The Riverlands are more tricky. On one hand the Riverlords and Northmen have been through alot together, fought battles, basically forged there own kingdom together, so thats gotta count for some kind of loyalty/comradery on the other hand, they've caught the brunt end of this war, many of them now have hostages with the Iron Throne, so it would be difficult getting them to commit unless you had the overwhelming advantage (and lets face it alot needs to happen in the series for the North to go from where they are now to having an 'overwhelming advantage) meaning you would have to probably get the Vale to your cause before take the Riverlands back, that is if you even want to take it back, but I'm sure you will find a good amount of loyal men there, Northmen fled from battle, outlaw groups who seem to loathe Freys and Lannisters at this point, and alot of people who have been burned out and pillaged by Lannisters, the Blackfish somewhere hiding spreading subversion (he did say he would continue the fight in Robbs name) and not too mention a giant pack of wolves led by a Stark direwolf, they could have alot of advantages retaking the riverlands if they chose to do so.

Another issue would be who actually takes charge in the North, everyone thinks Bran and Rickon are dead, and even if there revealed to be alive soon, Bran is still crippled and Rickon is 6, so that would leave Jon Snow, but obviously alot needs to happen with his story for him to be in that position (for one he needs to actually be alive) but if it is Jon Snow who takes control of the North, that would make it difficult for him to make any claim for the Riverlands, Robb had claim through the Tullys on his mother side, so it was natural for the Riverlords to follow him, Jon Snow has no Tully blood, maybe it will enough that he is Robbs heir, who knows.

[Lady Octarina]

Another issue would be who actually takes charge in the North, everyone thinks Bran and Rickon are dead, and even if there revealed to be alive soon, Bran is still crippled and Rickon is 6, so that would leave Jon Snow, but obviously alot needs to happen with his story for him to be in that position (for one he needs to actually be alive) but if it is Jon Snow who takes control of the North, that would make it difficult for him to make any claim for the Riverlands, Robb had claim through the Tullys on his mother side, so it was natural for the Riverlords to follow him, Jon Snow has no Tully blood, maybe it will enough that he is Robbs heir, who knows.

If the Blackfish's attitude is to be trusted, I doubt the Riverlands would follow Jon. Maybe if he was revealed to actually be Rhaegar and Lyanna's son they would - otherwise, he's the living proof of how Ned dishonored a Tully. And just like the Blackfish thought he was a Lannister man, the others might believe it as well.

[Frey Pie]

Well the starks are in line to inherit Winterfell,the Vale,riverrun(if the tullys die out one of the starks could take theyre name) and Harrenhal(catelyns mum was a whent)so theyve a pretty massive possible power base.Not to mention Casterly rock through tyurion and sansa aswel.Within in the realms of possibility?

[Lady Octarina]

Well the starks are in line to inherit Winterfell,the Vale,riverrun(if the tullys die out one of the starks could take theyre name) and Harrenhal(catelyns mum was a whent)so theyve a pretty massive possible power base.Not to mention Casterly rock through tyurion and sansa aswel.Within in the realms of possibility?

I didn't know that about Catelyn's mother. But the problem is, Riverrun is now at the hands of another House, and so is Harrenhall. They would have to conquest those, rather than inherit them, if they wanted those territories in their kingdom or whatever else they'll form.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I didn't know that about Catelyn's mother. But the problem is, Riverrun is now at the hands of another House, and so is Harrenhall. They would have to conquest those, rather than inherit them, if they wanted those territories in their kingdom or whatever else they'll form.

Yes, Catelyn's mother was a Whent.

I don't see the conquering to be that big of a problem, at this point. Baelish owns Harrenhal on paper, and Riverrun looks like it's going to hold the Red Wedding 2.

If the Blackfish's attitude is to be trusted, I doubt the Riverlands would follow Jon. Maybe if he was revealed to actually be Rhaegar and Lyanna's son they would - otherwise, he's the living proof of how Ned dishonored a Tully. And just like the Blackfish thought he was a Lannister man, the others might believe it as well.

If Edmure and his child die and someone like Sansa inherits Riverrun and agrees to ally with Jon, the Blackfish couldn't really do anything about it.

[Frey Pie]

Well who knows how all the houses will be fairing come the next book?Lannisters could be destroyed by Aegon or Dany.LFs title is purely that-a title with know actions backing it.And he doesnt have any heirs except for maybe Alayne Stone....

[Lady Octarina]

If Edmure and his child die and someone like Sansa inherits Riverrun and agrees to ally with Jon, the Blackfish couldn't really do anything about it.

What I meant was that maybe people under the Tullys resent Jon, but what am I saying? When the boy is revealed as a Targ they'll have nothing to hold against him, so forget about that. lol

Anyway, Riverrun is now under Lannisters and Freys. Alright, this Frey in particular seems incompetent enough, and the Lannisters and Freys in general are heading to extinction, that will probably happen before the Starks try to reclaim Riverrun, but that's what I meant when I said it was not in their hands.

[Tytan Lannister]

Lannisters could be destroyed by Aegon or Dany. LFs title is purely that-a title with know actions backing it.And he doesnt have any heirs except for maybe Alayne Stone....

It's not the Lannister's that hold power any more, it's the Tyrells. There is a good chance LF may use his influence over Lady Olenne to make sure House Tyrell secures his dominion for him if necessary. Also his ambitions do not seem to be limited to the Vale and the Riverlands, it's possible he may try and seize the North through Sansa. Sansa's/Alayne Stone's marriage to Harry the Heir will give him control over the Vale and the North simultaneously, whilst his own rights to Harrenhal while allow him to forge a Kingdom or Alliciance of the North between the North, the Vale & the Riverlands.

[Frey Pie]

It's not the Lannister's that hold power any more, it's the Tyrells. There is a good chance LF may use his influence over Lady Olenne to make sure House Tyrell secures his dominion for him if necessary. Also his ambitions do not seem to be limited to the Vale and the Riverlands, it's possible he may try and seize the North through Sansa. Sansa's/Alayne Stone's marriage to Harry the Heir will give him control over the Vale and the North simultaneously, whilst his own rights to Harrenhal while allow him to forge a Kingdom or Alliciance of the North between the North, the Vale & the Riverlands.

Lannisters still hold the west,riverlands and crownlands.Theres a lannister on the throne.Almost done but i wouldnt say the Tyrells are massively dominant especially with Euron at their back.However with Kevan dead if Jaime goes AWOL then that could be it for them

[Tytan Lannister]

Lannisters still hold the west,riverlands and crownlands.Theres a lannister on the throne.Almost done but i wouldnt say the Tyrells are massively dominant especially with Euron at their back.However with Kevan dead if Jaime goes AWOL then that could be it for them

True enough, the Tyrells will have their hands full with the Ironborn, but they are among those who have been more fortunate in this war, unlike the Lannisters. The Westerlands are vunerable from coastal attacks meaning should the Ironborn attack the Westerlands, the damage would be more significant than in a attack to the Reach, who retains much of the naval might.

Also Tommen is but a child who'll stamp anything anything put in front of him. At the end of ADWD the small council is dominated by the Tyrells, so effectively they control the Crownlands (especially with the deaths of Kevan & Pycelle). There's a chance that Cersei may regain control of the small council, but it appears Cersei's actions have been almost always been detrimental to both her own house and the realm, all she may do weaken the alliance between the Westerlands & the Reach, by alienating the Tyrells and in doing so, making House Lannister's position more precarious than it already is with Jaime gone, Kevan, Tywin & Joffrey dead and Myrcelle in House Martell's possesion.