Frey Pie Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 True enough, the Tyrells will have their hands full with the Ironborn, but they are among those who have been more fortunate in this war, unlike the Lannisters. The Westerlands are vunerable from coastal attacks meaning should the Ironborn attack the Westerlands, the damage would be more significant than in a attack to the Reach, who retains much of the naval might.Also Tommen is but a child who'll stamp anything anything put in front of him. At the end of ADWD the small council is dominated by the Tyrells, so effectively they control the Crownlands (especially with the deaths of Kevan & Pycelle). There's a chance that Cersei may regain control of the small council, but it appears Cersei's actions have been almost always been detrimental to both her own house and the realm, all she may do weaken the alliance between the Westerlands & the Reach, by alienating the Tyrells and in doing so, making House Lannister's position more precarious than it already is with Jaime gone, Kevan, Tywin & Joffrey dead and Myrcelle in House Martell's possesion.Yup all fairly true which is why i think Jaime is now key.In his few chapters in Dance he seems to have grown.And iv never understood ironborn hesitation in fighting the west. Robb gave them a huge opportunity in Clash.If Balon had attacked and joined his men to Robbs Casterly would have fell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tytan Lannister Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Yup all fairly true which is why i think Jaime is now key.In his few chapters in Dance he seems to have grown.And iv never understood ironborn hesitation in fighting the west. Robb gave them a huge opportunity in Clash.If Balon had attacked and joined his men to Robbs Casterly would have fellLol, yeah Balon wasn't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed :D But Euron pretty cunning, I don't think that he will leave the Westerlands & the Reach unmolested, though he may want Dany's help before actually invading instead of just raiding and pillaging towns, cause right now the Great Lords see them as a bunch of annoying pests but if they do get too serious they may have the whole might of 2 principle noble houses to deal with and I'm not sure that's something the Iron Islands can handle right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Pie Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Lol, yeah Balon wasn't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed :D But Euron pretty cunning, I don't think that he will leave the Westerlands & the Reach unmolested, though he may want Dany's help before actually invading instead of just raiding and pillaging towns, cause right now the Great Lords see them as a bunch of annoying pests but if they do get too serious they may have the whole might of 2 principle noble houses to deal with and I'm not sure that's something the Iron Islands can handle right now.Especially since what he wanted was reaving and salt wives so instead of going to densely populated with massive port West he goes to the sparsely populated noth.I assume he just hated Starks.Iv always thought Euron thinks himself a player but isnt really... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Turtle Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Especially since what he wanted was reaving and salt wives so instead of going to densely populated with massive port West he goes to the sparsely populated noth.I assume he just hated Starks.Iv always thought Euron thinks himself a player but isnt really...Why do you think he isn't? His methods are different but so far he is effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Pie Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Why do you think he isn't? His methods are different but so far he is effective. Well he attacks the strongest house in Westeros and promises to take over all Westeros.And the only way he can do this is by getting Dany and a dragon.So he sends his brother Vic who hates him and is obviously going to fight against him.So unless Euron has an ace up his sleeve,which knowing ASOIAF he does,thats some pretty stupid moves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Turtle Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 He attacks the strongest House at the moment when they have two other fronts where they need to fight ( KL and Aegon) if he succeeds who will remain to oppose him? And the whole Vic mission, I'm sure he never told his brother the real plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Octarina Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 He attacks the strongest House at the moment when they have two other fronts where they need to fight ( KL and Aegon) if he succeeds who will remain to oppose him? And the whole Vic mission, I'm sure he never told his brother the real plan.I agree; from all we see since ACoK, Euron is the only smart Greyjoy around, the only one with any chances at the game of thrones. Since all the information we have of him and his plan come from people who hate him, I think it's too early to believe he'll be just another Doran Martell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R'hllor-Is-The-Truth Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I think Starks should have nothing to do with the Riverlands. They are incredibly indefensible and vulnerable from every side. If Robb stayed in the North and protected Moat Calin, he would still be alive and King. If only he stayed in Winterfell where he belonged.Edmure would make a great Lord especially for the Riverlands. No people have been fucked so hard in The War of Five Kings. He is gentle and kind, and he puts his people and their welfare before everything else like a proper Lord.I think Rickon would be the most bad ass Lord of Winterfell ever. Since he was raised by Shaggydog, his mother and father dying before he reached 4 years old Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R'hllor-Is-The-Truth Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Sansa will marry Stannis and they will all live grumpily ever after.Oh My God! I can't get the image out of my head. San/Stan WTF man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
songbirdsings Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I think Rickon would be the most bad ass Lord of Winterfell ever. Since he was raised by Shaggydog, his mother and father dying before he reached 4 years oldHaha that just made me think of a battle of epic proportions! Rickon & Shaggydog vs Tommen & Ser Pounce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anarchosaurus Rex Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 If a Stark does return to rule the north(any of the 4 we know for fact to be alive bran,rickon,arya,sansa) do u think that they will control the north and the riverlands as rob did or would the tullys be restored to lords of the riverlands edmure was spared by jamie and is on his way to casterly rock?Well, the Riverlands (Tully) and North (Stark) originally seceded from the Realm together, although it was not clear that the King in the North would govern the Riverlands in addition to the North. Other than a marriage alliance, the Riverlands and North have little in common. A mutual defense alliance may make sense, but a centralized ruler would lead to the same problems that plagued the Iron Throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grail King Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Well lots of ifs, I see the Starks surviving, but if Jon is alive I think he may stay at the wall ( it's hard to kill off an entire species), Bran or Ricon would be LOWF but because of their age Sansa would be regent, if Harry the heir turns out to be decent Sansa would be Lady of the Vale add Riverrun if Edmure and his wife dies.If Arya survives she might get the Dreadfort, through marriage or alliances the Starks at minimum may end up from RR/ Vale / North add that they may also get the Iron Islands if Asha pledges her fealty to Winterfell. If Harry dies (and LF) Sansa is still Lady of the Vale, also if the marriage to Tyrion is held Valid she have CR but she would then most likely loose her base of the North as no one North will let Lannisters lead them or hold WF and I don't ever seeing Sansa let any Lannister get her home.Just to add I think the way the realm gets setup will hinge on Sansa Stark if she lives she will be the one person who could tie the realm together but she may never get to live up North again ( visit yes ) it would be sad to her.More people in Westerous have some sort of tie in with Sansa Stark than any other female in the realm, whether they want to marry her, kill her or use her.But this is GRRM book. May not go the way any of us think.ETA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bear Mormont Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 For the Riverlands to stay with the North, they'd need either the Vale or better the Iron Islands, preferably both. The Neck is a natural border, the passes to the Vale too. Trade (and the force to hold the regions together) would flow along the Maidenpool-Gulltown-Sisters-White Harbour route in the east and the Seagard-Iron Islands-Sea Dragon Point-Deepwood Motte-Bear Island route in the West.Otherwise, the Riverlands will go to either the Crownlands or the Westerlands in a few generations, as has happened for thousands of years.Fortunately, there is a Stark ready to take charge in the North, the Riverlands and the Vale, and Asha Greyjoy may be reasonable and rescue the Ironborn into a great Northern Empire.It all depends on the Iron Throne becoming obsolete, but I consider that a very likely result of the books.I agree with your thought about the Iron Throne. I think whoever takes over will get rid of it. It symbolizes too much of what is wrong in Westeros. I like you other views as well but I would like to see Jorah come back and defeat the Ironborn and therefore rule the Iron Islands as a bannerman to House Stark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKE Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Just wanted to defend Balon's reasoning to attack the north from my own interpretation. In Theon's first POV he pretty much justifies it. Don't have the book on hand but I can recall it goes something to the extent that: "Tywin Lannister is a cunning man and the child king Robb is much easier prey."Also, the north kingdom is half of westeros, and what's most precious to Greyjoys isn't gold but land. And finally, taking Moat Cailan blocked Robb Starks retreat back north. No army in westerosi history has ever taken/sieged Moat Cailan from the south side.Balon chose the surer, more advantageous strategy, going after the army that was completely exposed. And really, taking Cailan pretty much ended the story of the king in the north. Roose Bolton admits that in aDwD to Theon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCasualObserver Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Just wanted to defend Balon's reasoning to attack the north from my own interpretation. In Theon's first POV he pretty much justifies it. Don't have the book on hand but I can recall it goes something to the extent that: "Tywin Lannister is a cunning man and the child king Robb is much easier prey."Also, the north kingdom is half of westeros, and what's most precious to Greyjoys isn't gold but land. And finally, taking Moat Cailan blocked Robb Starks retreat back north. No army in westerosi history has ever taken/sieged Moat Cailan from the south side.Balon chose the surer, more advantageous strategy, going after the army that was completely exposed. And really, taking Cailan pretty much ended the story of the king in the north. Roose Bolton admits that in aDwD to Theon.You can't really defend him on those grounds - controlling The North wasn't really a long term option for him considering the limited number of men the Iron Islands can field and the fierce temperment of the Northerners.The battle of Oxcross gave Balon an incredible opportunity in the Westerlands - when Robb killed Stafford Lannister and scattered his host, the Westerlands were just as vulnerable as the North. Tywin had his huge host near Riverrun, the same place that Jaime's host was destoyed, leaving the cream of Lannister power far from their homes. With the death of Stafford and the new host he was raising (remember that these men were "greenboys" proving that the Westerlands were down to the dregs) the door to Casterly Rock was practically left open, and if he didn't fancy a seige then at least he could conquer Lannisport with ease. This is obvious due to the large navy the Iron Islands enjoy and the Westerlands close proximity to the sea, allowing freedom of movement.With Robb's offer of an alliance, Balon didn't even need to consider reprisals from the dreaded Tywin Lannister - he was using all his energy fighting Starks and Tullys. The wealthiest realm in Westeros was Balon's for the taking and he completely bottled it simply out of misguided hate for the Starks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bear Mormont Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 You can't really defend him on those grounds - controlling The North wasn't really a long term option for him considering the limited number of men the Iron Islands can field and the fierce temperment of the Northerners.The battle of Oxcross gave Balon an incredible opportunity in the Westerlands - when Robb killed Stafford Lannister and scattered his host, the Westerlands were just as vulnerable as the North. Tywin had his huge host near Riverrun, the same place that Jaime's host was destoyed, leaving the cream of Lannister power far from their homes. With the death of Stafford and the new host he was raising (remember that these men were "greenboys" proving that the Westerlands were down to the dregs) the door to Casterly Rock was practically left open, and if he didn't fancy a seige then at least he could conquer Lannisport with ease. This is obvious due to the large navy the Iron Islands enjoy and the Westerlands close proximity to the sea, allowing freedom of movement.With Robb's offer of an alliance, Balon didn't even need to consider reprisals from the dreaded Tywin Lannister - he was using all his energy fighting Starks and Tullys. The wealthiest realm in Westeros was Balon's for the taking and he completely bottled it simply out of misguided hate for the Starks.Great post! Hatred will make one do stupid things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anarchosaurus Rex Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I agree with your thought about the Iron Throne. I think whoever takes over will get rid of it. It symbolizes too much of what is wrong in Westeros. I like you other views as well but I would like to see Jorah come back and defeat the Ironborn and therefore rule the Iron Islands as a bannerman to House StarkExactly. All these houses are competing for the Iron Throne, but sitting upon it will ultimately be a hollow victory. The "winner" of the game of thrones will preside over a land wasted by war and winter, and may not even have the strength to rule. I would not be surprised if Dany wins the Iron Throne, but realizes she is powerless.By the end, most of the kingdoms will probably have reclaimed their sovereignty and begun to govern themselves again. At most, some of the kingdoms may form regional alliances - Stark-Tully, Targaryen-Martell, etc. - but for the most part all the kingdoms will be independent once more. Centralizing power in the Iron Throne sowed too much enmity among the different kingdoms to make it an effective form of government. For ASOIAF to end with another ruler atop the Iron Throne would be very anticlimatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 The Riverlands and Riverrun are in such a precarious position. The Starks of the North have the claim to it if anything happens to Edmure. The Freys are doomed. The Riverlands must either join, the North, The Westerlands or the Crownlands. The North will be the most logical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Turtle Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 The Riverlands and Riverrun are in such a precarious position. The Starks of the North have the claim to it if anything happens to Edmure. The Freys are doomed. The Riverlands must either join, the North, The Westerlands or the Crownlands. The North will be the most logical.I think they will spit, they had no strong history as independent area anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Oberyn_ Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 GRRM said the Riverlands can not realistically be defended by the north because they have no natural defences, e.g the neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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