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No more POV, or are there?


protar

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There should be a Sandor Clegane point of view. I read a poll online and out of a few thousand people 44% of the people said he was their favorite non-pov character. It would be interesting to see what goes on in his mind and what he thinks, etc...

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Some characters I can see getting dropped, or at least delayed until the last book

-Brienne is with Jaime, so we only need one there

-Arianne is heading towards JonCon, and it is from her POV, so possibly no JonCon

-Probably no Barristan, due to like 60 POV characters being in or near Meereen at this point

-We know there is both a Theon and Asha POV, but one of them is bound to be limited because they are together and one of them may die

-We probably wont see much of Bran until the last book

-If Jon is dead, then we have Melisandre on the wall. If Jon is alive, then there's not much need for Melisandre

-Not quite sure if Sam will be in the next book, maybe he'll come into play more in DoS

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Some characters I can see getting dropped, or at least delayed until the last book

-Brienne is with Jaime, so we only need one there

-Arianne is heading towards JonCon, and it is from her POV, so possibly no JonCon

-Probably no Barristan, due to like 60 POV characters being in or near Meereen at this point

-We know there is both a Theon and Asha POV, but one of them is bound to be limited because they are together and one of them may die

-We probably wont see much of Bran until the last book

-If Jon is dead, then we have Melisandre on the wall. If Jon is alive, then there's not much need for Melisandre

-Not quite sure if Sam will be in the next book, maybe he'll come into play more in DoS

Gotta have a Barristan pov, he is the only POV within Mereen.
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Gotta have a Barristan pov, he is the only POV within Mereen.

I don't think he's neccessary. Tyrion could easily get to Meereen within 2 of his chapters, and in the mean time Barristan can just be marshalling his forces and dealing with the bloody flux. Nothing that needs a POV to deal with.

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I don't think he's neccessary. Tyrion could easily get to Meereen within 2 of his chapters, and in the mean time Barristan can just be marshalling his forces and dealing with the bloody flux. Nothing that needs a POV to deal with.

I would be extremely surprised if there is not more Barristan chapters in TWOW. He was one of the viewpoints who was really moving the plot forward at the end of the last book. I think that the horrific situation within Meereen is one thing that we can say will be shown in the next novel. Martin did start out writing horror. I do agree that Barristan will never become a 'named' viewpoint, but I do expect to get his viewpoint during the battle (and siege).

Having looked at the excerpt from Tyrion 1 and Victarion 1, I think it is safe to say that the battle is imminent. I think the order will be: Barristan 1, Victarion 1, Tyrion 1. I don't think Dany will return in time to be involved in the first battle! Though I do expect she will be involved in sacking Yunkai.

I genuinely don't think that any of the viewpoints will be dropped from the next book - unless Jon is dead, then I think we will have a situation similar to Catelyn. Even Areo has a role to play, especially when Gerris and Arch return with Quentyn's bones and seeing Doran's reaction to whatever happens with Arianne when she meets the Golden Company.

I think that Martin will adopt a very clear 'tier' system in the next novel. We will see the major viewpoint characters coupled with minor viewpoint characters. However we will still get chapters from our minor viewpoints. For example:

* Theon and Asha are together. Rather than one of the siblings being dropped, I believe that we will see most of the story through Theon's pov, but we will also get a few chapters from Asha. While this might seem like overkill, they will be interacting with characters in a different way - the beauty of George's writing.

* Arianne and Connington. We know that Arianne has had a promotion to named viewpoint (like Victarion), so I expect most of the story to play out through her pov. However Connington still has things to add, such as the fall of Storm's End - which Martin has told us that we will see in Winds. Therefore the story of both characters will continue.

As I have said before, I think Tyene will become a viewpoint but she will be titled rather than named. She will play second fiddle to Cersei in the King's Landing plot.

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I would be extremely surprised if there is not more Barristan chapters in TWOW. He was one of the viewpoints who was really moving the plot forward at the end of the last book. I think that the horrific situation within Meereen is one thing that we can say will be shown in the next novel. Martin did start out writing horror. I do agree that Barristan will never become a 'named' viewpoint, but I do expect to get his viewpoint during the battle (and siege).

Having looked at the excerpt from Tyrion 1 and Victarion 1, I think it is safe to say that the battle is imminent. I think the order will be: Barristan 1, Victarion 1, Tyrion 1. I don't think Dany will return in time to be involved in the first battle! Though I do expect she will be involved in sacking Yunkai.

I genuinely don't think that any of the viewpoints will be dropped from the next book - unless Jon is dead, then I think we will have a situation similar to Catelyn. Even Areo has a role to play, especially when Gerris and Arch return with Quentyn's bones and seeing Doran's reaction to whatever happens with Arianne when she meets the Golden Company.

I think that Martin will adopt a very clear 'tier' system in the next novel. We will see the major viewpoint characters coupled with minor viewpoint characters. However we will still get chapters from our minor viewpoints. For example:

* Theon and Asha are together. Rather than one of the siblings being dropped, I believe that we will see most of the story through Theon's pov, but we will also get a few chapters from Asha. While this might seem like overkill, they will be interacting with characters in a different way - the beauty of George's writing.

* Arianne and Connington. We know that Arianne has had a promotion to named viewpoint (like Victarion), so I expect most of the story to play out through her pov. However Connington still has things to add, such as the fall of Storm's End - which Martin has told us that we will see in Winds. Therefore the story of both characters will continue.

As I have said before, I think Tyene will become a viewpoint but she will be titled rather than named. She will play second fiddle to Cersei in the King's Landing plot.

I agree that the horrors of Meereen will and should be shown, but Tyrion can cover it easily. Barristan can't really show us anything Tyrion can't. I wouldn't be surprised if we got Barristan's POV but I would be dissapointed with Martin. As much as I like Barristan's POV, and some of the other minor characters, It's inevitable that POV's will have to be dropped, at least until others have been killed off to make way. Otherwise there'd be 20 POV's (21 with Tyene) which is far too many. Even if we have some POV pairings like Asha/Theon or Brienne/Jaime I feel this would make the story very clustered. I'd rather Martin gave more focus to the major POV's with say 7 Theon chapters, rather than 4 Theon chapters and 3 Asha chapters.

Personally I feel it's time Martin scrapped this concept of major and minor POV's all together. It can't be denied that things have gotten out of hand a bit, and it's because he's started adding these minor viewpoints every time characters aren't present for something. This is very different from the earlier books where we only got new POV's where absolutely necessary and he was creative with the story to get his POV's in the right place (i.e Catelyn in Renly's camp.), or else had the events told second hand. Obviously some things do require new POV's, but on the whole he should go back to the old model. That and the fact that unless the POV is having and identity crisis, these new character titles are annoying.

So personally I wouldn't count on: Barristan, Brienne, Asha or Areo making an appearance as POV's and as for the others I hope that every POV gets at least 5 chapters each.

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I agree that the horrors of Meereen will and should be shown, but Tyrion can cover it easily. Barristan can't really show us anything Tyrion can't. I wouldn't be surprised if we got Barristan's POV but I would be dissapointed with Martin. As much as I like Barristan's POV, and some of the other minor characters, It's inevitable that POV's will have to be dropped, at least until others have been killed off to make way. Otherwise there'd be 20 POV's (21 with Tyene) which is far too many. Even if we have some POV pairings like Asha/Theon or Brienne/Jaime I feel this would make the story very clustered. I'd rather Martin gave more focus to the major POV's with say 7 Theon chapters, rather than 4 Theon chapters and 3 Asha chapters.

I don't think you got my point with regards to Meereen. Barristan really can show us more than Tyrion. Tyrion is outside the walls when the plague victims are being thrown into the city, the atmosphere within the city prior to the battle is going to hit fever pitch: dragons loosed, plague rife in the streets, the sons of the Harpy and Barristan preparing to ride out. The three viewpoints are going to really make the difference in the battle for Meereen. That being said I do expect Barristan to be like Davos and have only 1 viewpoint during the battle. The minor characters are there to supplement the story, there is no major viewpoint in Meereen so Barristan got his viewpoint. That will change after the battle, but I still think it highly likely that we will be privvy to Ser Barristan's thoughts.

Asha is still involved in a number of major storylines, such as trying to overthrow Euron - who is having massive impacts on both the King's Landing and Danaerys storylines. So having her viewpoint is important and benefit as an insight into the King of Iron Islands storyline, something that Theon can't do. So, while I agree that Theon should have a superior number of chapters, I still think it is important to check in on Asha too!

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I don't think you got my point with regards to Meereen. Barristan really can show us more than Tyrion. Tyrion is outside the walls when the plague victims are being thrown into the city, the atmosphere within the city prior to the battle is going to hit fever pitch: dragons loosed, plague rife in the streets, the sons of the Harpy and Barristan preparing to ride out. The three viewpoints are going to really make the difference in the battle for Meereen. That being said I do expect Barristan to be like Davos and have only 1 viewpoint during the battle. The minor characters are there to supplement the story, there is no major viewpoint in Meereen so Barristan got his viewpoint. That will change after the battle, but I still think it highly likely that we will be privvy to Ser Barristan's thoughts.

Asha is still involved in a number of major storylines, such as trying to overthrow Euron - who is having massive impacts on both the King's Landing and Danaerys storylines. So having her viewpoint is important and benefit as an insight into the King of Iron Islands storyline, something that Theon can't do. So, while I agree that Theon should have a superior number of chapters, I still think it is important to check in on Asha too!

I'm really not seeing what Barristan can show us that Tyrion can't. It's perfectly possible for Tyrion to arrive in Meereen for his second chapter, before the battle starts properly. So unless something vitally important happens within the day or so that Tyrion isn't in Meereen there's no need for Barristan.

As for Asha I think we'll be getting her POV in book 7 (which I don't think will be the last.). At the moment Asha isn't really in a position to affect the Iron Isles plot, so I think her part in it will be put on hold for TWOW. I have no doubt that she'll become a major player in the northern subplot, but that doesn't require a POV. And in any case I'm not really sold on her plan to crown Theon panning out. Not only is he in no fit state to lead the ironborn, but I thought it was fairly clear that he's given up on being ironborn and now just wants to be a Stark. So in all likelyhood he'll refuse her.

The POV tiers were a mistake, plain and simple if you ask me and I think it's time Martin did away with them.

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I don't think we will. I think the whole reason he gave characters like Melisandre (which was 100% unnecessary) and Barristan (cool parts, and kinda needed for the very last chapter) was so he can use them for larger roles in the future books.

True. I think for example that Melisandre will be given like 6 chapters in TWOW (Though I wouldn't say her chapter was unecessary. It gave us an insight into her abilities and I have theories on how specific thoughts could become very important in TWOW.). But we still need an extra POV in KL to will in the void there, unless Aegon takes the city earlier than the last couple hundred pages.

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I think the reason we've got no Tyrell POV's is because it would reveal some pretty heavy spoilers for the series. They're planning something if you ask me. No idea what, but something. Perhaps in book 7 or 8 (yes I think there'll be eight.) we'll get one, but I don't see much purpose for one at the moment. Martin needs to get the Martell and Greyjoy stuff finished or at least tidied up before we ge POV's from another major house.

Loras is not dead, and the Tyrells will use that to seize King's Landing by military might.

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I would be extremely surprised if there is not more Barristan chapters in TWOW. He was one of the viewpoints who was really moving the plot forward at the end of the last book. I think that the horrific situation within Meereen is one thing that we can say will be shown in the next novel. Martin did start out writing horror. I do agree that Barristan will never become a 'named' viewpoint, but I do expect to get his viewpoint during the battle (and siege).

Having looked at the excerpt from Tyrion 1 and Victarion 1, I think it is safe to say that the battle is imminent. I think the order will be: Barristan 1, Victarion 1, Tyrion 1. I don't think Dany will return in time to be involved in the first battle! Though I do expect she will be involved in sacking Yunkai.

I genuinely don't think that any of the viewpoints will be dropped from the next book - unless Jon is dead, then I think we will have a situation similar to Catelyn. Even Areo has a role to play, especially when Gerris and Arch return with Quentyn's bones and seeing Doran's reaction to whatever happens with Arianne when she meets the Golden Company.

I think that Martin will adopt a very clear 'tier' system in the next novel. We will see the major viewpoint characters coupled with minor viewpoint characters. However we will still get chapters from our minor viewpoints. For example:

* Theon and Asha are together. Rather than one of the siblings being dropped, I believe that we will see most of the story through Theon's pov, but we will also get a few chapters from Asha. While this might seem like overkill, they will be interacting with characters in a different way - the beauty of George's writing.

* Arianne and Connington. We know that Arianne has had a promotion to named viewpoint (like Victarion), so I expect most of the story to play out through her pov. However Connington still has things to add, such as the fall of Storm's End - which Martin has told us that we will see in Winds. Therefore the story of both characters will continue.

As I have said before, I think Tyene will become a viewpoint but she will be titled rather than named. She will play second fiddle to Cersei in the King's Landing plot.

I'm totally on board with this. Moreover, I would add that you can consolidate characters without reducing POV. By this I mean that an Asha chapter can replace a Theon chapter, rather being in addition to one. Reuniting characters can shorten the number of necessary chapters without reducing the POV. However, characters will start dying again. We're soon to be short a few more Greyjoys, I think, and I can't imagine Jon Connington or Barristan are long for this world either.

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Words are wind. If he is to show Casterly Rock and Highgarden, we WILL need Edmure and a Tyrell POV. And Tyene would also be good, everybody left KL and Cersei alone is monotonous.

Also a temporary POV in Winterfell would be good unless the battle happens right at the beginning.

I've always assumed Casterly Rock is being saved for something big, if that's true then other POV's will probably be involved negating the need for Edmure. And also isn't Cersei still going there anyways (assuming Kevan's death didn't change anything, I think the Tyrells will now be in control but Cersei could put up a fight). Provided Loras isn't dead a POV for him could be useful, someone needs to give us insight into Euron's battle with the Redwyne fleet. And I'd rather Lady Nym than Tyene for KL but that's just me.

Edit to clean up my thoughts.

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  • 2 years later...

I really hope Kevan gets a full time POV and we see Casterly Rock. I'm tired of Tyrion and Cersei. Jaime is fine, but there are more Lannisters than just those three. GRRM has made it sound like Casterly Rock and Lannisport are just teeming with Lannisters. I would also like to see Casterly Rock, the Lone Light (which I highly doubt) and the Jade Sea


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I love to see a Howland Reed POV to give us insight of Jons parentage, but also insight of the GNC, which i think he is the planner. He was the only one of the great Northern Houses not to participate in Robb Rebellion because i believe the Reeds would have to provide support for the Stark to move back. But still he hasn't done much to kick out the Ironborn. Neds death had a greater impact on him than we know.


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Gotta have a Barristan pov, he is the only POV within Mereen.

Yeah, and since we already have not one but two Barristan sample chapters released, I'd say it is a pretty safe bet he doesn't get dropped.

And didn't Martin say we wouldn't have any new POVs FROM PEOPLE WE HAVEN'T MET YET, or some such thing? Not the same thing as no new POVs at all. Totally different. It would rule out Howland Reed (probably, unless we count Ned's dream) but not Olenna or Euron or any other charcter we've met on screen but haven't had a POV from yet.

Does anyone have the exact language where this is coming from?

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