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Ygrette

Whores and Lord Tywin

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Hi,

I was wondering... is there a particular reason why Lord Tywin has such a massive problem with Tyrion and his whores? Is it generally unacceptable for highborn folks to traffic with whores or is it just Lord Tywin's general hatred for Tyrion that he would deny his offspring this last and only manner of enjoyment? Why doesn't he just let Tyrion have his whores? As I understand, there are other unwed lords and sers spending their pastime in whorehouses and it may cause some raised eyebrows, but threatening to hang them? Forbidding him?

Not to mention the whole Tysha affair - what was that all about? Why did he do that? Just being an ass for the sake of it?

Greetings,

Steph

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There's a generally accepted reason for it, but it's not made clear until a little later. End of book spoilers, but in very simple terms:

Basically, he's a hypocrite, and not as dissimilar to his hated son as he'd like to think.

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his dad was pussy whipped by a whore

This and this...

Basically I think he's just a hipocrite and a bitter old man

Tywin and Tyrion are a lot more like each other than they would dare to admit. I believe it started with his father, but if you keep reading, later you will see why we call him a hypocrite.

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I think Tywin's problem is that Tyrion is so ugly he doesnt just "enjoy" whores, but falls in love with them (Shae) and Tywin sees that as embarrassing so he would rather prevent his son from falling for "false" love (since the only women who many act like they love him are beneath him and just trying to get Lannister gold (making them whores) which is how he saw Tysha). I also think he doesnt like how public Tyrion is about his whoring.

Its an image thing I believe.

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Tywin just hates how the son he hates because he is 'deformed' 'killed his mother' is the son that is most like him. The one that could run Casterly Rock perfectly well and has even proven brave and clever in battle (I truely think if Tyrion had been 'full sized' he would have been even more formidable than Jaime in the battlefield.).

His Eldest son has sworn his life to the Kings Guard and has fathered children with his own sister, I really believe that Tywin knew exactly what was going on with Jaime and Cersei.

And yes. it is true, that Tyrion probably could never find true love and no highborn lady will ever want to marry him, therefore his open and unashamed whoring embarasses Tywin. :)

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Tywin just hates how the son he hates because he is 'deformed' 'killed his mother' is the son that is most like him. The one that could run Casterly Rock perfectly well and has even proven brave and clever in battle (I truely think if Tyrion had been 'full sized' he would have been even more formidable than Jaime in the battlefield.).

His Eldest son has sworn his life to the Kings Guard and has fathered children with his own sister, I really believe that Tywin knew exactly what was going on with Jaime and Cersei.

And yes. it is true, that Tyrion probably could never find true love and no highborn lady will ever want to marry him, therefore his open and unashamed whoring embarasses Tywin. :)

Eventhough I don't believe Tywin knew about Cersei and Jaime, I do think you are completely right about everything else you said. Spot on.

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Basically I think he's just a hipocrite and a bitter old man

Pretty much this.

Tywin probably visted whores as much as Tyrion did. Varys mentions that the secret passage to Chataya's was built for a previous hand whose honor wouldn't allow him to be seen going there in the open. Either that was Jon Arryn - which I doubt, because he seems honorable to a fault like Ned - or Tywin - more likely, I think.

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I think Tywin doesn't care so much about anyone having whores, so long as they keep them behind the scenes and out of public view. I think he views them as a vice and nothing more. That his son (Tyrion) takes great pleasure in sampling whores throughout Westeros with little regard to his family's image greatly infuriates Tywin. Furthermore I don't think he ever wants Tyrion to enjoy himself whatsoever, because he doesn't believe he deserves any empathy. He uses Tyrion just like he uses everyone else.

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Gah, I couldn't believe the end of book scenes between Tywin and Tyrion. I cheered a little cheer when Tyrion put his cold hands to good use.

Same here. That was awesome.

I can't believe everything about Shae was a lie. And then she ends up in Tywins bed.

Ridiculous

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I think Tywin doesn't care so much about anyone having whores, so long as they keep them behind the scenes and out of public view. I think he views them as a vice and nothing more. That his son (Tyrion) takes great pleasure in sampling whores throughout Westeros with little regard to his family's image greatly infuriates Tywin. Furthermore I don't think he ever wants Tyrion to enjoy himself whatsoever, because he doesn't believe he deserves any empathy. He uses Tyrion just like he uses everyone else.

Full agreement. I thought, too, that it wasn't about the whores, but about the lack of discretion, Tyrion was showing. And

bedding the whore his hated son loved, probalby gave him some special kick

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Defenitely a hypocrite :P but the thing about Tyrion looking the most like Tywin in ways of cunning, plotting and commanding is oh so true.

Also loved the last part of aSoS :)

"For hands of gold are always cold, but a womans hands are warm."

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Im going to take the road less travled and deffened Tywin.

Tyrion is obviusly ugly and is therefore mostlikely going to be shunted away by most women. Whores though do not see him for his looks or atributes, only his gold. Since tyrion is unlikely to get genuin effection from real women, i think tysha was almost a fluke, he is more likely to start to believe that the whores fake infatuation is real and he will start to fall in love with their fake smile. Tywin is protecting his son(or more the reputation of his house) from the embarisment of his son marrying a whore. Tywin uses whores for sexual pleasure, not emotional. And about Tysha, he could not have a lannister marry some fishermans daughter it would be a disgrace to his family and would make the lannisters look weak, and it also takes out possibility of political alliance through wedding tyrion to someone like sansa who has no choice.

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Im going to take the road less travled and deffened Tywin.

Tyrion is obviusly ugly and is therefore mostlikely going to be shunted away by most women. Whores though do not see him for his looks or atributes, only his gold. Since tyrion is unlikely to get genuin effection from real women, i think tysha was almost a fluke, he is more likely to start to believe that the whores fake infatuation is real and he will start to fall in love with their fake smile. Tywin is protecting his son(or more the reputation of his house) from the embarisment of his son marrying a whore. Tywin uses whores for sexual pleasure, not emotional. And about Tysha, he could not have a lannister marry some fishermans daughter it would be a disgrace to his family and would make the lannisters look weak, and it also takes out possibility of political alliance through wedding tyrion to someone like sansa who has no choice.

while i like your argument, and could even get behind part of it, i think ultimately it boils down to an image thing: Lannisters shouldn't frequent whores because they're (in their own minds) better than everyone else; whores are "common." same thing about why Tyrion and Tysha could never work. additionally, after the experiences with Tytos' mistress (whom Tywin shamed as well), Tywin is even more on his high horse to make sure no Lannister dare repeat the same mistakes. Tywin is cold, cruel snob, plain and simple.

It's a shame Tywin doesn't recognize the promise Tyrion has. Tyrion's greatest flaw is that he is searching for love, because he's never really received any from probably the person who matters most to a young child's life -- his parents. Obviously Joanna died and Tywin blamed Tyrion. Tyrion only gets/got love from Jaime (who he thought didn't/couldn't betray him and actually did) and Tysha (who did love him, but he never knew post-she's-a-whore thing).

When you read on to AFFC, there's a great assessment of Tywin's sons.

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Lannisters shouldn't frequent whores because they're (in their own minds) better than everyone else; whores are "common." same thing about why Tyrion and Tysha could never work. additionally, after the experiences with Tytos' mistress (whom Tywin shamed as well), Tywin is even more on his high horse to make sure no Lannister dare repeat the same mistakes. Tywin is cold, cruel snob, plain and simple.

Well, tywin kept his whores private and (most likely) only used them for pleasure while his father and son had them in public view, or wanted them in public view.

I was about to reply something very smart, but I got distracted... by your avatar. :-P

damn right

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Well, tywin kept his whores private and (most likely) only used them for pleasure while his father and son had them in public view, or wanted them in public view.

damn right

re: tywin keeping his whores private.....private because it goes back to the image thing of what a Lannister should be/exemplify. It comes down to how he is/was perceived. All about the image...

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