[TWoW, TMK Spoilers] Bran, Bloodraven, Theon & Dragons

[HannibalStark]

I dont know if this has been mentioned already, but in the dunk and egg series someone states that the last dragon had a clutch of five eggs, not three. We know three of them made it to pentos but where are the other two? My guess would be dragonstone or the ruins of summerhall. Im curious to hear everyone's thoughts.

there are many missing eggs it seems. But yes, it seems like they should be somewhere unless they can be destroyed and were....

[TheeMikeHoncho]

please don't say something stupid, then go back and edit the stupid thing you said after I already answered it.

i was screwing around, lighten up.

and my whole point is I can't refer to anything in the books that says, "Dawn does not glow" you know why? Because its not there, because there is zero reason for it to be.

So the fact that i can provide evidence (alive with light), which you dont believe in, and you cant provide anything but 'it wasnt written anywhere else" proves that you are right? what kind of nonsense is this.

Of course every time Stannis is mentioned, his sword isn't. But it is mentioned an awful lot though. You know what is mentioned every time the Stannis sword is mentioned? The fact that it glows! ...and how many times has Dawn been brought up in this series? How many times has someone said anything about it glowing?

No, for the amount of times Stannis appears, his sword isnt mentioned that much. And it shouldnt be, this series is about characters, not magical swords. Like i have repeatedly said, Arthur Dayne and Dawn are rarely mentioned (with Arthur Dayne mentioned more), and the only time he is actually in the story (Ned's flashback) it describes his sword as glowing- alive with light.

In fact, why am I arguing with you about this? You constantly misrepresent what you read and you have often misread even what I have written. (when you get caught doing this you go back and edit what you typed)

Well thats your opinion that i have misrepresented what i have read.

Earlier i said that you couldnt say that since it isnt written, it isnt possible. Somehow in your response to this it was transformed to "if it wasnt mentioned then it is likely". Dont wax poetic about misrepresentation of what you have written when you do things like this you hypocrite.

The only time i editted a post was when i made a joke- "sorry". I made this joke because you seem to have taken this discussion a little too personal. Once i read your freak out to this i changed it. Not once have i gone back and rewritten an actual response.

In closing, i wish you well and hope you do great things in your life.

[The Undefeated Gaul]

Yeah, and Dany knows to watch out for the "mummers Dragon", from the House of the Undying. So I really believe Dany will kill Aegon the fake, for being a bastardization of her brothers son. Im not saying that Aegon isn't a Targaryen, but he is still the mummers Dragon, for acting as the legitament son of Rhaegar Targaryen.

(remember a "mummer" is an actor)

"Mummers Dragon" - Varys was an actor in his youth. Aegon = Dragon (if he is a Targ). Therefor he is Varys' Dragon aka The Mummers Dragon, but still a dragon. (I hope)

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

The line mummer's could mean several things including fake. And she only knows that from quaithe. She knows about a cloth dragon being cheered by crowds from the house of the undying. Cloth dragons were fake dragons used by mummers so that's why people relate aegon to being a cloth or mummer's dragon. I think he is a pretender. But he is most likely a blackfyre pretender not just a random fake.

[bully]

The search function of this forum didn't turn up anything on this topic, but if this is already being discussed somewhere let me know.

Could Bran and Bloodraven hatch their own dragon egg?

We know from The Mystery Knight that Bloodraven was at one time in possession of a dragon egg, and with no information to the contrary we can assume he still is. From the Christmas Gift chapter it's apparent that Bran and/or Bloodraven as well as Asha want Stannis (who intends to kill Theon) to take Theon to a nearby weirwood tree. In A Game of Thrones it's shown that some sort of sacrifice is required to hatch dragon eggs. Both Theon and Dany's unborn child share a sort of "king's blood" which is apparently of great importance when it comes to casting spells.

Unfortunately, I don't have my books on hand to reread Bran's chapters to see if this holds some weight. If anyone has read them recently - did you notice any references to strange egg shaped rocks?

Finally, a few points that throw some doubt on my theory:

1. Bran seems to be trying to help Theon throughout ADWD, trying to get him to remember his name. He also doesn't strike me as someone willing to sacrifice a person he's known all his life, even after the terrible things Theon has done to his home.

2. Asha is most likely just trying to give her brother a clean death or attempt an escape. I doubt she's weak-willed enough to be warged or manipulated by Bran/Bloodraven.

3. The type of magic that Bloodraven wields isn't the same as a shadowbinder's - king's blood or a sacrifice may not be required. If it isn't, an explanation for Bloodraven not already hatching his egg could be that the assistance of a more powerful greenseer (Bran) is required.

4. Finally, how useful could a baby dragon even be? Dany's dragons served well to rally people to her, but took 5 books to actually be useful in combat. Bloodraven/Bran are both incapable of leaving their cave at the moment, so they wouldn't be able to use the dragon to bring people to their cause (whatever that may be) and there doesn't seem to be enough time left in the series for it to even rival Viserion, the weakest of Dany's dragons, even if it was allowed to grow unrestricted.

Either way, I still feel this a topic worthy of discussion. What say you?

Intereating tought...Altough i don't recall BloodRaven having a egg, when is that said? The only thing I know is that he came to the wall with Master Aemon, and that he somewhat deserted... And, the sharpest thing is that Bran doesn't realize it... One of the first lines of Eddard Stark was: " A deserter is the most dangerous man there is " ... I still am not sure what he wants. Altough i can't think the children of the forest are with some dark ignitive about Bran or his intentions....

Now, Melisandre says it's needed Blood of a King to awake the stone dragons... But she said that in Dragonstone, we don't know if she would wake THOSE dragons..., or even if she had a stone dragon EGG, we don't know if she could actually do anything. Melisandre is the least reliable source of knowledge man, she is literally bullshit. We can't rely on her. Stannis will learn that too.

And more, what DID awake Dany's dragons? Fire? Drogo's bood? Maegi's Blood? Dani's blood? We don't know. We can say by what we know that Dany was destined to do it. We know also, that all Valyrian magic had its source from BLOOD and FIRE..."blood for fire, fire for blood", we can say that awoke the dragons, as all the valyrian magic, but we don't know if someone else could actually get to awake a dragon by the same way not being a Targaryen... Melisandre brings only mischief to the world, we can't say if her "king's blood" has special power... BUT, we know that BLOOD it self has power, through sacrifices, as when Victarion burned the girls and got a swift wind that smelled burned meat, you see? It's not the kingship, but the blood, and regardless, we could even say that any Baratheon is king at all...Robert was no king, we can say. Robert made himself king, what good is that for his blood, you know? He didn't was born a king.

Anyway, we heard ALL magic had gone out from this world, by the death of the dragons...For the source of theur magic id fire and blood, now, what id the source of the northern magic??? The one that didn't disappeared, the one that was only sleeping, and the one that BR mastered and was making use of the last century?? Do you see now that BR is utterly suspicious? He has some nice knowledge, peharps even so as to awake a dragon, but i don't think he could...even if he knew how dany did, he wouldn't be able to do the same... anyway, he has his own magic, why would he need dragons? OHhhh, to end the Night That Never Ends!...but, he seems to be content with just Bran for that,,,,or is he? What is he grooming Bran for, actually?

Well, dunno.

[bully]

The search function of this forum didn't turn up anything on this topic, but if this is already being discussed somewhere let me know.

Could Bran and Bloodraven hatch their own dragon egg?

We know from The Mystery Knight that Bloodraven was at one time in possession of a dragon egg, and with no information to the contrary we can assume he still is. From the Christmas Gift chapter it's apparent that Bran and/or Bloodraven as well as Asha want Stannis (who intends to kill Theon) to take Theon to a nearby weirwood tree. In A Game of Thrones it's shown that some sort of sacrifice is required to hatch dragon eggs. Both Theon and Dany's unborn child share a sort of "king's blood" which is apparently of great importance when it comes to casting spells.

Unfortunately, I don't have my books on hand to reread Bran's chapters to see if this holds some weight. If anyone has read them recently - did you notice any references to strange egg shaped rocks?

Finally, a few points that throw some doubt on my theory:

1. Bran seems to be trying to help Theon throughout ADWD, trying to get him to remember his name. He also doesn't strike me as someone willing to sacrifice a person he's known all his life, even after the terrible things Theon has done to his home.

2. Asha is most likely just trying to give her brother a clean death or attempt an escape. I doubt she's weak-willed enough to be warged or manipulated by Bran/Bloodraven.

3. The type of magic that Bloodraven wields isn't the same as a shadowbinder's - king's blood or a sacrifice may not be required. If it isn't, an explanation for Bloodraven not already hatching his egg could be that the assistance of a more powerful greenseer (Bran) is required.

4. Finally, how useful could a baby dragon even be? Dany's dragons served well to rally people to her, but took 5 books to actually be useful in combat. Bloodraven/Bran are both incapable of leaving their cave at the moment, so they wouldn't be able to use the dragon to bring people to their cause (whatever that may be) and there doesn't seem to be enough time left in the series for it to even rival Viserion, the weakest of Dany's dragons, even if it was allowed to grow unrestricted.

Either way, I still feel this a topic worthy of discussion. What say you?

Intereating tought...Altough i don't recall BloodRaven having a egg, when is that said? The only thing I know is that he came to the wall with Master Aemon, and that he somewhat deserted... And, the sharpest thing is that Bran doesn't realize it... One of the first lines of Eddard Stark was: " A deserter is the most dangerous man there is " ... I still am not sure what he wants. Altough i can't think the children of the forest are with some dark ignitive about Bran or his intentions....

Now, Melisandre says it's needed Blood of a King to awake the stone dragons... But she said that in Dragonstone, we don't know if she would wake THOSE dragons..., or even if she had a stone dragon EGG, we don't know if she could actually do anything. Melisandre is the least reliable source of knowledge man, she is literally bullshit. We can't rely on her. Stannis will learn that too.

And more, what DID awake Dany's dragons? Fire? Drogo's bood? Maegi's Blood? Dani's blood? We don't know. We can say by what we know that Dany was destined to do it. We know also, that all Valyrian magic had its source from BLOOD and FIRE..."blood for fire, fire for blood", we can say that awoke the dragons, as all the valyrian magic, but we don't know if someone else could actually get to awake a dragon by the same way not being a Targaryen... Melisandre brings only mischief to the world, we can't say if her "king's blood" has special power... BUT, we know that BLOOD it self has power, through sacrifices, as when Victarion burned the girls and got a swift wind that smelled burned meat, you see? It's not the kingship, but the blood, and regardless, we could even say that any Baratheon is king at all...Robert was no king, we can say. Robert made himself king, what good is that for his blood, you know? He didn't was born a king.

Anyway, we heard ALL magic had gone out from this world, by the death of the dragons...For the source of theur magic id fire and blood, now, what id the source of the northern magic??? The one that didn't disappeared, the one that was only sleeping, and the one that BR mastered and was making use of the last century?? Do you see now that BR is utterly suspicious? He has some nice knowledge, peharps even so as to awake a dragon, but i don't think he could...even if he knew how dany did, he wouldn't be able to do the same... anyway, he has his own magic, why would he need dragons? OHhhh, to end the Night That Never Ends!...but, he seems to be content with just Bran for that,,,,or is he? What is he grooming Bran for, actually?

Well, dunno.

[Mace Cooterian]

"Mummers Dragon" - Varys was an actor in his youth. Aegon = Dragon (if he is a Targ). Therefor he is Varys' Dragon aka The Mummers Dragon, but still a dragon. (I hope)

:agree:

Vary's=Mummer and Aegon=Dragon.

I hope too!!!

[FanTasy]

And more, what DID awake Dany's dragons? Fire? Drogo's bood? Maegi's Blood? Dani's blood? We don't know.

Payment by death. "Only death can pay for life." I have always suspected the initial payment was Rhaego. It is implied that Rhaego was payment for Drogo's ' recovery', but I think this is a red herring. Rhaego had been dead in the womb for some time, we learn from how he is described. I suspect that when Dany's bond with the eggs tightened (she took them to her bed, held them to her belly, felt life stirring) she was transfering death for life and that there was some merging process between the children of Dany as 'mother of dragons'.. The eggs got life force from Rhaego, Rhaego got scales and wings..

Dany tells that she felt life in her womb before she entered the tent, so maybe that was the moment for the final exchange. I don't think the burning of Mirri Maz Dur or dead Drogo and a dead horse did it, although it may have helped somewhat.

Until GRRM reveals what really happened in that pyre and why something went terribly wrong at Summerhall we just don't know.

[bully]

Payment by death. "Only death can pay for life." I have always suspected the initial payment was Rhaego. It is implied that Rhaego was payment for Drogo's ' recovery', but I think this is a red herring. Rhaego had been dead in the womb for some time, we learn from how he is described. I suspect that when Dany's bond with the eggs tightened (she took them to her bed, held them to her belly, felt life stirring) she was transfering death for life and that there was some merging process between the children of Dany as 'mother of dragons'.. The eggs got life force from Rhaego, Rhaego got scales and wings..

Dany tells that she felt life in her womb before she entered the tent, so maybe that was the moment for the final exchange. I don't think the burning of Mirri Maz Dur or dead Drogo and a dead horse did it, although it may have helped somewhat.

Until GRRM reveals what really happened in that pyre and why something went terribly wrong at Summerhall we just don't know.

Yes, altough, i'd rather say "Blood for fire, fire for blood", its the conception of the valyrian magic, and was written on the dragon horn... Maegi deals with blood magic too, but, i don't know...well, whatever way it happened, she is the 'mother' indeed, they sucked her nipples and all on that pyre...

[bully]

Until GRRM reveals what really happened in that pyre and why something went terribly wrong at Summerhall we just don't know.

I really wanted to know that too. It was Rhaegar's birth right? I think that will have to wait, though... Rhaegar knew the "Song of Ice and Fire", and i believe that on dany's visions on the House of The Undying, it was him with Lyanna, and not Elia...and the baby probably Jon Snow... I was skeptical abou it, but after reading again, it kinda fits for me. Anyway, Rhaegar was wrong, the baby wasn't the PTWP, but he learned a lot on those scrolls, i guess.

[BTR-90]

Question on dragons. Does any one know what happened to the non Valyrian dragons. I believe that Dragons existed in other parts as well(Ashhai). What happened to them, and did people there also have dragon riders?

[FanTasy]

Question on dragons. Does any one know what happened to the non Valyrian dragons. I believe that Dragons existed in other parts as well(Ashhai). What happened to them, and did people there also have dragon riders?

There may still be dragons elsewhere. In Bran's vision in AGOT he sees a dragon stirring when he looks east, to the shadow, to Ashai.

And I'm curious about the creature that flew above Tyrion's head when he was at that river heading for Volantis. It was big and had leathery wings. When I first read it I thought it could be Drogon on a trip to the sheep supermarket, but that would mean his territory would be awful big.

So maybe Bran saw an awakening of other dragons in the East, not the ones that would be hatched in the Dothraki Sea - and the other lot is coming west.