Real Talk: Are King Stannis and Melisandre shagging?

[hombay]

Regarding the "Bed no action since Stannis left" comment from the books...

What if she isn't sleeping with Stannis, but the Kings men? When Stannis left, same went with all his guys. And of course, Mel most likely wouldn't touch the Queensmen/guards.

It is likely that she managed to seduce a couple of fellows from that stock, versus actually being with the king himself who obviously has the noted qualities of asexuality and a stern nature (Besides, not every single person in Westeros has to be driven by or interested in sex. We can have at least one adult who wants to dissuade from all that) Even Stannis' father mentioned his cooler, reservered personality, which was the reason Patchface the fool was brought over in the first place in order to get him to laugh.

Anyway, just a simple thought that could be entirely wrong for all I know. It's just that If she reached out to Jon and Davos for intimacy, it wouldn't be suprising if she did so to men who may likely be easily interested, particularly a couple of knights under Stannis.

This is a great thought! I hope it is so, really..

[Queen Cersei I]

I don't think Stannis is just another Tywin, detesting the sexual activities of others while secretly desiring such pleasure for himself. I think he genuinely doesn't like sex, and not just because his wife is ugly. It could be a deep-rooted psychological issue; maybe seeing Robert's detestable example when he was growing up pushed him too far in the opposite direction. I could see him hating sex because he saw it as a weakness and didn't want to be completely controlled by his desires like his brother was. Or maybe Stannis was just naturally asexual; some people are.

I’d argue that Stannis is not at all asexual, merely repressed; that he is, in fact, sleeping with Mel on a regular basis; and that he enjoys doing so immensely.

A number of factors in Stannis’s portrayal lead readers to assume that Stannis is asexual, but I think that this is clearly wrong. The two primary reasons why readers assume that Stannis is unnaturally cold or uninterested in sex are his cold marriage/ relationship with his wife, and his (apparent) lack of interest in women/ sexuality. Both of these are flukes.

There are plenty of clear indicators that Stannis’s disgust is Selyse specific, rather than women in general. His physical distaste for his wife shines through in practically every scene they’re in together—when Stannis is said to be leading Selyse back to the castle after the burning of the seven in ACOK, he is said to be holding her elbow with the tips of his fingers, with a disgusted look on his face (apparently grabbing her hand would just be TOO MUCH!!!) In another scene with Davos in ASOS, Stannis immediately shrugs away from Selyse’s touch, looking grossed out/ uncomfortable. Littlefinger, Renly, Tyrion, and others all mention Stannis’s physical disgust for his wife as the defining element in his relationship with her.

On it’s own, this would not necessarily prove that Stannis was clearly disgusted by Selyse—perhaps, one might argue, he just dislikes/ is uncomfortable with women touching him. However, when the beautiful Melisandre (rather than the ugly Selyse) is the one touching Stannis, Stannis is shown to react differently—he is just fine with Mel touching him. For instance, in ASOS, Davos observes that, when Selyse touches her husband, Stannis quickly shrugs away from her touch. However, moments later, Davos notes the following: “Melisandre put her hand on the King’s arm. “The Lord of Light cherishes the innocent. There is no sacrifice more precious. From his King’s blood and his untainted fire, a dragon shall be born.”

Stannis did not pull away from Melisandre’s touch as he had his queen’s. The Red Woman was all that Selyse was not; young, full-bodied, and strangely beautiful, with her heart shaped face, coppery hair, and unearthly red eyes.”

It also fits in with the Baratheon brothers all representing different types of men, as Fragile Bird pointed out. On top of the rather obvious trinity of heterosexuality, homosexuality, and asexuality, they also represent different approaches men take regarding sexual love and lust. Robert is the stereotypical playboy, sleeping with dozens of women and then forgetting about them the next morning. Renly is the romantic, devoting himself completely to a single lover, sexually and emotionally. Stannis is the stoic, unable to feel romantic love or even basic sexual lust at all. House Baratheon's sigil is a clear symbol of masculinity, and the three Baratheon brothers seem to represent the different forms that masculinity can take.

Secondly there is the argument that Stannis must be asexual because he acts asexual— i.e., generally cold, unflirtatious, and uninterested in women and sex. While this is true, I do not think that this necessarily indicates asexuality or even a low sex drive on Stannis’s part. Rather, I think Stannis acts this way because he is personally insecure and shy around women, a combination that makes talking to females, indicating interest in them, and acknowledging his natural desire for sex to be something near impossible and embarrassing on his part. In addition to being personally reserved and somewhat shy and awkward by nature, he is rather old fashioned, and especially socially awkward around women.

Stannis is here, as in so many other things, the polar opposite of his brother. Robert handsome, friendly, can easily charm women and seduce them from an early age. Stannis, in contrast, has never been comfortable around them. He also seems to hold some genuinely felt beliefs about sexual behavior and sexual fidelity, however, imo, his cold, indifference towards women is largely an act.

Growing up, he probably not only was unable (unlike Robert) to get girls, but had trouble talking to them as well. (When I think of Stannis, I recall Quentyn Martell’s admission: “girls scared him, especially the pretty ones.") He dealt with this by taking refuge in a cold, icy exterior and apparent indifference/ lack of interest in women. Is Stannis truly asexual? I’d argue—hell no. He merely WANTS people to think he is.

[The guy from the Vale]

Good catch on the parallels between Quentyn and Stannis, Cersei. And really, spot on with the entire post.

To expand that parallel even further: both Quentyn and Stannis are younger brothers who never expected to rule, with older siblings who have a quite a bit more excessive sex life. They both can't expect to ever be as attractive or charismatic as Arianne and Robert are, and they know they aren't really expected to father children.

[Lady Octarina]

Obviously, but so are plants, sunshine, water, air. Whats special about blood is that it is vital and limited. Semen, yes and no. It is limited, but you won't die for want of semen. And if it were so special, Cersie's belly would have more magical potency than the wall.

I agree they are making it. The baby is Stannis', but I don't agree on the method.

1. Stannis vehemently denies being part of it

2. It weakens Stannis to a point of mortal risk.

Mel and Stannis snogging and the series' theme of magic don't fit each other. I'd lean towards leeching and cutting long before snogging.

I never saw it as occasioned by them simply having sex; there's probably another ritual required to make those shadow babies, a ritual Melisandre probably executes on her own - maybe throwing leeches with his blood on the fire, maybe something after he falls asleep, worn down, who knows? Also, I don't think every time they have sex a shadow baby is produced.

@Queen Cersei I:

there's only one way to express how I feel about your two most recent posts:

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Anyway,

We can only hope the TV show will erase any doubts on Stannis's relationship with Melisandre once and for all (and who else just loved Stephen Dillane's awkwardness on that scene? ^.~

[Milcov]

Stannis strikes me as asexual so I'd say purely for the shadowbabies yes.

[Defengar]

She is a bit of a succubus, literally and figuratively...

[Silmarien]

Are Stannis and Melisandre Shagging?

Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: Oh dear God yes.

And of course he's loving every last second of this rigorously upheld duty.

Go Stannis go.

:agree:

[Tourne-Toujours]

I am disappointed that Stannis is an adulterer . . . what a hypocrite is Lord Eddard the only man well never mind . . is there any man in Westeros other than Varys who doesn't mess around? Even Lord Eddard (as we know it) got busy during Robert's rebellion.

Hot (literally) exotic foreigner. Who among use would really stand a change against that?

[Red Raven]

I don't think Stannis is asexual, just very, very dutiful. He has sex with his wife out of duty. He possibly had sex with Melisandre out of duty.

He doesn't do anything for fun or amusement.

[Silmarien]

Hot (literally) exotic foreigner. Who among use would really stand a change against that?

Hopefully those married men out there would be able to withstand her. If they care anything about their vows. Being that we marry for love these days. Just sayin.

[Castel]

Stannis strikes me as asexual so I'd say purely for the shadowbabies yes.

.

I think that he just doesn't get women. This has been mentioned a few times by Asha. Stannis is brisk and rude enough when dealing with men, women are an entirely alien species to him, in Westerosi society they have to be treated differently, and flirting and courtesy in general run very counter to his character. He was probably uncomfortable around Selyse in general and so never really got used to her. Cersei hit the nail on the head, he's one of those guys that seems that way but in reality, he's more scared of women than they are of him.

I don't think that he would have slept with Melisandre if not for the chance to win the throne, but I think that once he started it happened more than it took to make the shadowbabies because the door was open and he grew comfortable around her. Once he, ahem, did his duty once or twice and realised that it wasn't that painful, I'm sure he came to enjoy it.

[Dornish.Red]

Old thread, I know, but why does it appear the prevailing opinion is that Melisandre can only have sex to create shadow babies? I think it is pretty heavily implied that she and Stannis are doing the business, and regularly. If they were only doing it to create shadow babies Stannis would be dead and a weird murder would have been mentioned, one committed by a weird shadow thing. The 'bed hasn't seen much use' thing has nothing to do with her needing to pretend to sleep IMO. And if Stannis isn't doing it to create shadow babies, well then....

[Lost Melnibonean]

Old thread, I know, but why does it appear the prevailing opinion is that Melisandre can only have sex to create shadow babies? I think it is pretty heavily implied that she and Stannis are doing the business, and regularly. If they were only doing it to create shadow babies Stannis would be dead and a weird murder would have been mentioned, by a weird shadow thing. The 'bed hasn't seen much use' thing has nothing to do with her needing to pretend to sleep IMO. And if Stannis isn't doing it to create shadow babies, well then....

It is known.

[TimJames]

How do you think Mellisandre gets pregnant with shadow assassins?

Yes, Stannis and Mellisandre are shagging.