Dany's visions in House of the Undying

[haverwench]

three fires must you light . . . one for life and one for death and one to love . . .

. . . three mounts must you ride . . . one to bed and one to dread and one to love . . .

. . . three treasons will you know . . . once for blood and once for gold and once for love .

I would guess that drogons fire causes the death of someone, as ordered by Dany, and the treason would be something to do with the dragons as well, like selling them (im a bit skeptical that it was Mormont, because he betrayed her for a pardon, not gold)

Well, Dany does light her second fire right after hearing this prophecy, and she does it via Drogon. Burning down the House of the Undying = lighting a fire for death. So that could mean that Drogon is the second (dreaded) mount as well. But I don't see how he can be linked to a treason for gold.

[haverwench]

Stannis would not necessarily have to die as a result of a "lie" being slain. It could possibly just mean that the slayer of the lie being presented as the true AA would override alternative claims, thus causing the Stannis = AA thesis to fade away.

.

Stannis has to live. Melisandre has seen that he will sit on the Iron Throne, and the fires don't lie. (What she sees always comes to pass, even if she interprets it completely wrong.) But that doesn't mean he will be king. Don't forget, there's one other person entitled to sit on the Iron Throne: the Hand of the King. Or Queen, as the case may be.

My theory about Stannis, based on what we know of his character, is that the minute he comes face-to-face with his rightful liege, he'll bend the knee at once--not just willingly but gratefully.

[jarl the climber]

I mostly agree with Silver Spearwife about these prophecies with some caveats

1. I never thought of that as representing the Four Kings. It never made much sense to me.

11. I agree that this is a Stannis reference, the no shadow and the sword of light are harder to figure.

12. This makes me think of Viserys and the stories Illryio told about the smallfolk sewing dragon banners in secret, Aegon almost seems to obvious, I can't go there yet.

13. This, I think is a reference to Aegon being a Blackfyre or someone else being a Blackfyre.

[Faint]

We're not actually privy to the vision Melisandre saw of Stannis sitting on the Iron Throne. In other words, I don't set great store by it. Mind you, she also thought she saw Eastwatch-by-the-Sea when she clearly didn't (if anything, it was Pyke).

[Serie]

Stannis has to live. Melisandre has seen that he will sit on the Iron Throne, and the fires don't lie. (What she sees always comes to pass, even if she interprets it completely wrong.)

she also did say that Stannis is AA and that the sword is Lightbringer. These are obviously wrong.

[Lord Damian]

Regarding I, the Freys are noted for having a rat-faced appearance. perhaps the Riverlands is the Maiden?

[QuaitheTheShadow]

Beneath the Mother of Mountains, a line of naked crones crept from a great lake and knelt shivering before her, their grey heads bowed.

This one is interesting. All the other visions in this section have come true, which implies this one will also come true. I think in TWoW, the Dothraki crones will all submit to Dany and declare her (or perhaps Drogon) the Stallion That Mounts The World. This also fits nicely with "to go west you must go east".

I believe this too.

Perhaps Dany's betrayal for gold means betrayal for or by the Golden Company. No?

[Miriamele]

I've read the Dunk and Egg stories and there is a puppeteer girl in the first one who pisses off a mad youg Targ when they do some play with a cloth dragon in it, and the whole episode caused a lot of trouble for all of the characters. I don't know how they could be connected but it always comes to my mind when I read Dany's vision.

[haverwench]

she also did say that Stannis is AA and that the sword is Lightbringer. These are obviously wrong.

Yes, but that's *her* being wrong, not the vision itself being false. So if she sees Stannis on the Iron Throne, then he will, at some point, in some way, be on the Iron Throne--but if she says that means he's destined to be king, that could be horsefeathers.

11. I agree that this is a Stannis reference, the no shadow and the sword of light are harder to figure.

How so? Stannis has the fake Lightbringer, and he sent his shadow to sorcerously kill Renly.

[WinterWarrior]

I just re-read this passage today so I am glad to see this thread come up. I was struck by Vision #2 which is obviously the Red Wedding and why it would be in a series of visions that Dany would have - what does it have to do with her? The other visions seem to be tied into her destiny and story, but the RW is not. It happens in a distant place and Robb's death has nothing to do with her.

So then it got me to thinking about Robb's written declaration before the RW (the content of which we are not totally sure of) that I think declares Jon Snow his his heir as King of the North. Maybe that is how he and Dany will meet up - she conquering the south while he is King of the north and they make a marriage of convenience that moves into love.

I want to see Jon and Dany end up together. I know that sickens many who don't want the boy and girl heros to win and to find love, but I am ok with it.

[Ser Pollo Loco]

Yes, but that's *her* being wrong, not the vision itself being false. So if she sees Stannis on the Iron Throne, then he will, at some point, in some way, be on the Iron Throne--but if she says that means he's destined to be king, that could be horsefeathers.

How so? Stannis has the fake Lightbringer, and he sent his shadow to sorcerously kill Renly.

The visions aren't absolute or at least thats what mel thinks.....she tells jon you can stop a vision from coming true if you act...and i think she's right, for example the fire shows personal attacks on the person reading the flame so the fire reader can take measures to prevent the attack

[The Sunset King]

Actually, the vision in which Stannis was seen on the Iron Throne was one of Axell Florent's visions. However, it is indeed true that every fire vision has technically come to pass in some form throughout the books or is seemingly headed toward fulfillment. According the internal logic of flame vision seeing in the books, it is possible for potential futures not to occur or for false visions to appear but none of the visions that have been detailed in the books seem outright false, at least so far. Usually there is uncertainty (or errors) about when interpretating their meaning however they almost always actually seem to end up taking place, even if in an unexpected fashion (the fake Renly at Blackwater Rush for example). The characters consider the future at least somewhat changeable but literary reasons seem to end up causing the visions to not be derailed.

Thus, it cannot be ruled out that Florent's vision, despite his being a problematic source, actually gives a hint that Stannis may end up on the Iron Throne as king or Hand of the King. If the vision ends up occurring along the lines described in the book, those are the two positions that would enable him to actually sit the Iron Throne as Axell Florent seems to believe will happen.

I agree that Stannis will have to live at least until the point at which the image from the House of the Undying takes place (he is probably the blue-eyed king with the red sword casting no shadow). Since Daenerys would be "slaying" the "lie," the issue would then become who be the holder of the throne and whether some kind of cooperation could be forged or whether they would be locked in conflict. Either seems possible.

I am not entirely sure that Melisandre's belief that Stannis = AA is primarily based upon her fire visions. There is something more to the story that she hasn't revealed yet that may be augmenting her reliance on visions. Something that has a bearing on why she created Stannis's glowing sword. The sword's ruby in the hilt probably explains the glow, and possibly event acts as a conduit of a measure of influence.

[imnotsheila]

I just re-read this passage today so I am glad to see this thread come up. I was struck by Vision #2 which is obviously the Red Wedding and why it would be in a series of visions that Dany would have - what does it have to do with her? The other visions seem to be tied into her destiny and story, but the RW is not. It happens in a distant place and Robb's death has nothing to do with her.

I have the same question in mind about this vision of the Red Wedding. Because the visions of Dany in the House of Undying have significance to her (past, present and future) but this Red Wedding doesnt seem to have any importance / reference to her. I mean, why did she had vision of the Red Wedding?

[Anatisog]

I have the same question in mind about this vision of the Red Wedding. Because the visions of Dany in the House of Undying have significance to her (past, present and future) but this Red Wedding doesnt seem to have any importance / reference to her. I mean, why did she had vision of the Red Wedding?

Well, it might not be apparent at the moment but may have a significant relevance later; after all, even if the lands of Essos and Westeros seem to be different worlds all together, they are starting to intertwine each other. Or maybe the declaration WinterWarrior mentioned, who knows.

Even so, the prophecies show other things not directly related to Dany, and we can all agree the RW was a significant episode in the War of the 5 kings, which is something that affects Dany (or more likely, her realm) directly.

[openended7]

Just a thought, but a man of the cloth is usually described as a religious figure. The High Sparrow has the support of the masses and now has an army, potentially making him the cloth dragon. Only problem is we haven't seen anything yet connecting him to dragons.

[haverwench]

Just a thought, but a man of the cloth is usually described as a religious figure. The High Sparrow has the support of the masses and now has an army, potentially making him the cloth dragon. Only problem is we haven't seen anything yet connecting him to dragons.

And also, I don't think the phrase "man of the cloth" is really used in Westeros. So it seems like the "mummer's dragon" interpretation is a better fit, even if we can't be sure yet whom it refers to.

[camradio]

2) a feast of corpses, where many of the bodies were savagely slaughtered, and many of the corpses have cups or spoons in their hands; above them sits a dead man on a throne with the head of a wolf, wearing an iron crown and holding a leg of lamb like a king would hold a scepter;

The Red Wedding

I was re-reading ACOK and came across this and in retrospect obviously made the connection to the RW. Is there any significance to the lamb leg? Just curious

[Silver Spearwife]

Regarding I, the Freys are noted for having a rat-faced appearance. perhaps the Riverlands is the Maiden?

Well, the Riverlands do seem royally fucked as of late. They just can't catch a break.

I was re-reading ACOK and came across this and in retrospect obviously made the connection to the RW. Is there any significance to the lamb leg? Just curious

:dunno: Maybe one of the more well-rounded posters can help you out there.

I was just thinking about the three fire/mount/treason prophecies, and I've thought for a while that maybe the love bits are all the same? Probably not, but it's something that's crossed my mind a few times.

Like...okay, to clarify, here's the prophecies using some of the common interpretations from the Citadel page (not saying I agree with them, just using them for argument's sake):

Fires: Life (dragons), death (Undying?), love (?)

Mounts: Bed (Drogo), dread (Iunno...Hizdahr?), love (?)

Treasons: Blood (Mirri), gold (Jorah, Illyrio, Varys - i dunno, someone), love (?)

Maybe the (?) blanks are all filled by the same person, or something relating to the same person. Maybe. It's just a thought. I mean, if you think about it, the first one in each are all very strongly connected (Drogo --> Mirri --> dragons. Direct cause and effect), so maybe that's true of the second and third as well.

[QuaitheTheShadow]

Treasons: Blood (Mirri), gold (Jorah, Illyrio, Varys - i dunno, someone), love (?)

Jorah was most likely her betrayal for love.

[Silmarien]

Could Viserys be the betrayal for gold? I know it'd make the visions out of time sequence but he did want that golden crown....