[TWoW SPOILERS] Sellswords (from Theon I)

[The Raven's Teeth]

I really doubt she will voluntary tell him who she is.

Me too, I think Jeyne (after meeting the real deal or just breaking down) might blab to Ser Justin.

That or Arya heads back to Westeros with Ser Justin's forces without anyone knowing, she is very sneaky.

Though If he did find out/know I think he'd be pretty keen to bring Stannis the real Arya Stark.

[The Sunset King]

The Iron Bank is surely aware of the the situation in Essos of the present disposition of sellsword companies. They also know that one of the most likely things Stannis is to do with the money they are providing is to hire mercenaries. The Iron Banks is probably right now looking for ways to assist him with that endeavor as they want their client to succeed. Massey may receive some assistance and advice from the Iron Bank while in Braavos.

[Bran Vras]

Well, being an officer doesn't mean you can do whatever you want with your army. I'm not even sure that they are free officers.

The armies are bound to their respective cities. And the slaves are bound to their masters.

That's why they'd rather support Dany than Stannis. Dany could free them. Stannis doesn't care about Essos. Why would they help him ?

But I do agree with you that it's weird that Mel never thought about seeking the help of the Red Temples (she doesn't know that they support Dany).

I understand that it's not clear how one would tap in the Red power. It's not out of the question since the Red Temples had been willing to send a priesthood in Dorne, in addition to other envoys like Thoros, Melisandre etc. They could have sent missionary men in Westeros to build support for Stannis. The more I think about it, the more curious it seems to me. I guess we know too little about the political aspects of this religion.

[Lady Octarina]

Me too, I think Jeyne (after meeting the real deal or just breaking down) might blab to Ser Justin.

That or Arya heads back to Westeros with Ser Justin's forces without anyone knowing, she is very sneaky.

Though If he did find out/know I think he'd be pretty keen to bring Stannis the real Arya Stark.

Well, Jeyne would only recognize Arya if she was using her real face, which seems unlikely at this point.

I understand that it's not clear how one would tap in the Red power. It's not out of the question since the Red Temples had been willing to send a priesthood in Dorne, in addition to other envoys like Thoros, Melisandre etc. They could have sent missionary men in Westeros to build support for Stannis. The more I think about it, the more curious it seems to me. I guess we know too little about the political aspects of this religion.

Sometimes I wonder how much a part of the Red Religion Melisandre really is. Not that she's tricking everyone, she seems too much of a fanatic not to have complete faith in Rh'llor, but, with her methods, shadow-binding, and all that, I wonder if she's not some kind of heretic in that context - that would explain why, as well-intentioned as she is, she doesn't seek anyone else's help. Doesn't it seem strange that someone who think they found Azor Ahai reborn wouldn't tell the others about it?

[Pliskin]

I understand that it's not clear how one would tap in the Red power. It's not out of the question since the Red Temples had been willing to send a priesthood in Dorne, in addition to other envoys like Thoros, Melisandre etc. They could have sent missionary men in Westeros to build support for Stannis. The more I think about it, the more curious it seems to me. I guess we know too little about the political aspects of this religion.

The Red Temples didn't send Melisandre.

She came to Westeros on her own, and has her own beliefs about Azor Ahai, and they're not shared by the other Red Priests who think AA = Dany.

Plus, she's from Ashaï. And I don't think the Temples are that coordinated. Ashaï is really far far away from Volantis.

Sometimes I wonder how much a part of the Red Religion Melisandre really is. Not that she's tricking everyone, she seems too much of a fanatic not to have complete faith in Rh'llor, but, with her methods, shadow-binding, and all that, I wonder if she's not some kind of heretic in that context - that would explain why, as well-intentioned as she is, she doesn't seek anyone else's help. Doesn't it seem strange that someone who think they found Azor Ahai reborn wouldn't tell the others about it?

I like the idea of Mel working alone as a heretic whose views are not shared by her temple in Ashaï and who is forced to leave and make it for Westeros alone.

[NewJeffCT]

Well, right now - if Stannis is still alive and has just defeated Ramsay Bolton, he is still not in a good situation. He's outside of Winterfell and winter has arrived.

If Massey makes it to Braavos, he can at least hire 3,000 to 5,000 sellswords there and send them to aid Stannis ASAP. That would at least put him on more equal footing with Roose Bolton, and also make a siege/assault of Winterfell more likely, especially if Manderly has come around to Stannis' side.

With winter abound, Stannis does not immediately have to worry about Lannisters, Tyrells, Martells or Greyjoys. They won't be able to march or sail up north to attack him. Of course, if it is the Long Winter, then he'll have to worry about The Others.

If Massey's initial contingent to Stannis can allow Stannis to take Winterfell and endure the winter, it will gives Massey at least a few years to find more sellsword companies - around Meereen, the Disputed Lands, etc.

Of course, this is assuming Ramsay's letter is fake or not true.

[Bran Vras]

The Red Temples didn't send Melisandre.

True! (My point remains otherwise unchanged.)

Sometimes I wonder how much a part of the Red Religion Melisandre really is. Not that she's tricking everyone, she seems too much of a fanatic not to have complete faith in Rh'llor, but, with her methods, shadow-binding, and all that, I wonder if she's not some kind of heretic in that context - that would explain why, as well-intentioned as she is, she doesn't seek anyone else's help. Doesn't it seem strange that someone who think they found Azor Ahai reborn wouldn't tell the others about it?

I thought a bit more about it. It seems to me that the Red Religion has a large following, is probably ancient, and is without a centralized clergy. The doctrine of the religion itself sounds like zoroastrism (sacredness of fire, dualistic theology). But in terms of scope, it might be compared to Buddhism in Asia: loosely organized, with strong local traditions, and sometimes politically powerful. Seen in that way, I can imagine that people with different sorts of interest and background can claim to represent legitimately the faith in R'hllor.

[SirReberalPalsey]

Its the golden rule whoever will pay back the gold will get to rule. where i see this getting interesting is the iron bank will have thier guy in jon/stannis and will not want to recognise dannys claim. how and were the foreign powers, volantis, lys, the summer island etc stand on who rules in westeros will be interesting to see play out

[Carey Snow]

There just cannot be any quality companies left for hire. The wise masters have purchased every company available for the Meereen campaign. The Golden Company (best of the best) has returned home to Westeros and is fighting to seat Aegon on the iron throne. Bravvos is the most powerful of the free cities and iron bank has given Stannis unlimited funding, if Massey is to find anything, it will likely be here.

My personal feelings is that Massey will sort of betray Stannis once he hears that he is dead. Remember that House Massey is an ancient house from the Crownlands and have served House Targaryen far longer than they have served house Baratheon. I can see Massey attempting to strike a deal with Danaerys on behalf of Shireen. He will likely see it as pointless trying to seat a young girl with greyscale upon the iron throne. Its also just as likely that he will see Dany as his true liege.

That is a very interesting theory, and one that I will need to give some thought to.

We also have to remember that the FM have Arya in Bravvos and many of us, myself included, feel there is some kind of partnership between the FM and the Iron Bank. If the Iron Bank supports Stannis, I would think they would have the FM try to use Arya with Massey in some way and reintroduce Arya to Westeros in the process.

The Iron Bank also seems to be anti Dany as her Dragons are disrupting every thing, especially their markets. So I am not sure they would continue to fund Massey if he turns from Stannis to Dany.

[Carey Snow]

Well, Jeyne would only recognize Arya if she was using her real face, which seems unlikely at this point.

I am not sure that Arya is so far along in her training that she would be reluctant to use her real face as long as she felt safe doing so. She is still very much a novice in the FM's training. I do think she is far enough along that she will be loyal to them . . . At least at first. But she has not lost her identity and would have no problem reverting to Arya, especially if she rejoins Jon.

[My_Arya_Spirit]

Arya may come back with Massey, or be sent back to Westeros, but under the orders of the FM. My bet is she gets sent to kill Cersei. I believe she is the valonqar from Cersei's prophesy.

Pure conjecture, but perhaps she is also sent to kill Littlefinger, and is able to rescue her sister in the process.

[Brucolac]

The Faceless Men don't seem hypocritical to me, an institution or a kingdom would never pay the price to hire them.

[Lady Octarina]

I am not sure that Arya is so far along in her training that she would be reluctant to use her real face as long as she felt safe doing so. She is still very much a novice in the FM's training. I do think she is far enough along that she will be loyal to them . . . At least at first. But she has not lost her identity and would have no problem reverting to Arya, especially if she rejoins Jon.

Exactly; I think she will only show herself to Jon. If she believes he's dead, she'll keep the ugly girl's face. Arya spent the last two years or so in the story running away, with people looking for her to use her just because she was a Stark. She's not the most reasonable person around, but she's smart to know how much of an advantage she'll have if no one knows who she is. More important, if they don't know she's Arya Stark they probably won't stop her from fighting, which seems to be the only thing on her mind. :laugh:

Well, right now - if Stannis is still alive and has just defeated Ramsay Bolton, he is still not in a good situation. He's outside of Winterfell and winter has arrived.

If Massey makes it to Braavos, he can at least hire 3,000 to 5,000 sellswords there and send them to aid Stannis ASAP. That would at least put him on more equal footing with Roose Bolton, and also make a siege/assault of Winterfell more likely, especially if Manderly has come around to Stannis' side.

With winter abound, Stannis does not immediately have to worry about Lannisters, Tyrells, Martells or Greyjoys. They won't be able to march or sail up north to attack him. Of course, if it is the Long Winter, then he'll have to worry about The Others.

If Massey's initial contingent to Stannis can allow Stannis to take Winterfell and endure the winter, it will gives Massey at least a few years to find more sellsword companies - around Meereen, the Disputed Lands, etc.

Of course, this is assuming Ramsay's letter is fake or not true.

Well, I assume Ramsay's letter is true, but the information is fake. Your post made me wonder... what if Stannis really wins the battle, but sends a raven (from the Theon chapter) to Winterfell stating otherwise - what then? Would he disguise his men as Frey soldiers and put them inside Winterfell? Would he retreat to that untouched place the ironborn were kept (Hornwood's?) and wait for Massey's return with the sellswords? Will he have th clansmen climb the walls and start a surprise attack?

[jarl the climber]

I think people are being as naive as the Ghiscari, we can't assume that the Golden Company will remain faithful to Aegon, its possible that Stannis will try to turn their cloaks with gold and land, this homeless Harry fellow seems like he has his doubts and the offer alone would have an effect on the morale of the Golden Company.

[SirReberalPalsey]

jeyne pool could go to the temple asking the stranger to end her life of suffering after her humiliation. it would only cattycorner theon and tyrions triumphs oover their own desperate situations. ergo jeyne as quentin. also it has the effect of arya, wearing the face of jeyne pool, pretends to be arya stark.

[GreenHand]

We seem to have forgotten another "army" in the Stannis-Bolton Winterfell clash. The hordes of Wildlings on the wall. They respected Jon Snow and had just been roused at the end of Dance to follow Jon to Winterfell and possibly to battle. Perhaps they welcome the action after so much waiting. They all know the contents of the letter by now. It wasn't burned. Tormund Giantsbane has become their leader and he spent 2 hours discussing the ins and outs of the plan with Jon. Mance Rayder was mentioned in the letter, so even though he was seen burn there may be crackpot whispers that he's alive. There are also Wildling spearwives in Winterfell. Jon confirmed that the letter had their number right to Tormund.

As an extra incentive to leave the wall if there is some serious fighting with the Black Brothers and the Queens men. And there may well be. Don't forget that in a stand-off, the Black Brothers have control over the food stores. So the Castle Black wildlings may be forced to head South.

While I doubt many take the oath seriously many of the Wildlings have sworn fealty to Stannis. At the very least they may feel that Stannis let them cross the Wall. Though they may be smart enough to see more of Jon's hand in it. Either way they have more reason, if only slightly, to side with Stannis than Bolton. Tormund would have heard all about the Boltons and Ramsay in particular from Jon. And its the Boltons that are apparently holding wildlings prisoner.

Let's not forget how central raiding is in wildling culture. It so normal its not even an act of war for them.

So I think we may see a Wildling horde heading for Winterfell even without Lord Commander Jon Snow.

[GreenHand]

Maybe Massey will even pay them...

(They've already given up all their wealth to the Nights Watch. They now stand entirely destitute, except for their weapons and clothing).

[Pliskin]

Why does everyone think that Jeyne will go with Massey to Braavos?

I thought Massey was to let Jeyne at the Wall...

[GreenHand]

Why does everyone think that Jeyne will go with Massey to Braavos?

I thought Massey was to let Jeyne at the Wall...

Yes, but Stannis doesn't know what has happened to Jon and its aftermath. Massey take one look at whatever chaos he finds there and decide that its no safe place for a young girl especially one as valuable as Arya Stark. Without a Lord Commander and escalating animosities between the three factions (Queen's men, Watch, Wildlings) Massey may decide that nowhere on the wall will be safe in the near future, and so take her with to Braavos.

However if Aly Mormont decides to take a hike or join a fight (I don't think her allegiance is to Stannis per se) then Massey may choose to leave her with the Queen (to be politically groomed). If the Wall is settling he may leave her at Eastwatch (where there is a maester to attend her nose).

Let's not forget the possibility that Alyssane Mormont who has said "There is only one king in the North and his name is Stark", may kidnap the young Arya Stark and disappear. What is poor Massey to do then...? I suppose getting Sellswords is more important so off he goes.

[Areo for Prez]

Arya may come back with Massey, or be sent back to Westeros, but under the orders of the FM. My bet is she gets sent to kill Cersei. I believe she is the valonqar from Cersei's prophesy.

Pure conjecture, but perhaps she is also sent to kill Littlefinger, and is able to rescue her sister in the process.

Disguises herself as Tyrion to kill Cersei and as Cat to kill Littlefinger. Sounds like she is going to want to kill everyone who has ever wronger her in that fashion.