The Hound (spoilers)

[7V3N]

I'm pretty sure he is the gravedigger. His description matches the hound pretty well from when we last saw him. Also, Sansa befriends a dog in this book who is also lame. I don't think it's a coincidence. Or we may never see the hound again, and it will be up to the readers to figure out whether he is dead or finally "at peace".

ADWD:

That peace is likely disrupted if he hears of a possible UnGregor in King's Landing.

[Winter Wasnt That Bad]

Ygrette, I too am a huge fan of the Hound. He is one of my favorite characters in this series, partly because he is so misunderstood by people. And he wants them to misunderstand. He hates all the trappings of power and popularity. He prefers being called a dog than a knight, how awesome is that?

I don't think he's truly dead. Here's why:

1) His death scene hasn't been written in. Why would a major character just die without us actually reading about it? This hasn't been done for any of the other dead major characters, and there have been a few.

2) The priest who talked to Brienne has a specific talent for healing people. (Pretty sure this was in the book somewhere).

3) Ever hear of being "born again". This could explain the priest saying the Hound is dead, but meaning it in a spiritual and not physical way.

4) There is noone in this series who is like the Hound. He is just too cool. I know he's brutal, but who wouldn't be after what he has been through. He sacrificed his life to protect Sansa, someone who could never love him. Even Arya stopped praying for his death, and she's vindictive as hell.

The Hound will return, but he will be different. Not zombie different, just different.

[7V3N]

Even Arya stopped praying for his death, and she's vindictive as hell.

Arya thinks he's dead.

[WinterfellWoman]

Arya thinks he's dead.

Actually, she starting leaving his name off the list while they were traveling together. I can't find the specific passage, but at one point when she is reciting her "prayer" she leaves his name out without even realizing it. Then afterwards she wonders about the fact that she left it off and as far as I know can't come to a conclusion as to why.

[Lyanna Stark]

Ygrette, I too am a huge fan of the Hound. He is one of my favorite characters in this series, partly because he is so misunderstood by people. And he wants them to misunderstand. He hates all the trappings of power and popularity. He prefers being called a dog than a knight, how awesome is that?

I don't think he's truly dead. Here's why:

1) His death scene hasn't been written in. Why would a major character just die without us actually reading about it? This hasn't been done for any of the other dead major characters, and there have been a few.

2) The priest who talked to Brienne has a specific talent for healing people. (Pretty sure this was in the book somewhere).

3) Ever hear of being "born again". This could explain the priest saying the Hound is dead, but meaning it in a spiritual and not physical way.

4) There is noone in this series who is like the Hound. He is just too cool. I know he's brutal, but who wouldn't be after what he has been through. He sacrificed his life to protect Sansa, someone who could never love him. Even Arya stopped praying for his death, and she's vindictive as hell.

The Hound will return, but he will be different. Not zombie different, just different.

I agree with everything but 4. Reread Sansa's chapters in late ASOS and in AFFC and I think you'll see some rather surprising stuff from the oldest Stark sister. She compares him to quite a few men she meets (Tyrion, Lothor Brune, Dontos, Littlefinger, the Kettleblacks) and he always comes out in front of the competition. There's also the fact that twice when she's pondering weddings and beddings, he randomly pops up out of nowhere. Tyrion would make sense as she is technically married to him, but why would she even consider Sandor Clegane in that context?

If she was after someone pretty to fawn over, it would make far more sense is she thought of Loras Tyrell in that context, especially since she goes a bit crosseyed around Loras before, but she does'nt.

[LadyJSnow]

I agree with the one statement that perhaps "the Hound" is gone, but Sandor Clegane remains. I am one of those guilty of shipping Sandor/Sansa. It's so beauty and the beast, and I love it. He really is different. And I know she compares him to all of the other men she meets in King's Landing, but notice that it takes at least five different men to equal him. That makes him different.

No way we've heard the last of Sandor Clegane. GRRM wouldn't just let him disappear on a hill in the middle of nowhere... would he?

[The Reeds]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who was upset when the Hound died. Finding out that he was dead was by far the saddest moment in the book for me. :(

I admit, I didn't like the Hound much in the first book, but he's really grown on me as a character. I really hope that he isn't dead. He was built up and developed so well that it would be a shame if he just died like that.

[The Roaring Bear]

Yes, but GRRM did not think the Hound would be the hero of the readers. He has said he is amazed by his readers' love for the Hound. Also, killing Gregor makes him a kinslayer, so he would not find peace in his life, but in his mind. The Hound is no hero, just like he is no ser.

The Hound is relatable because he is just him. He is no ser, and does not try to be. He has honor but is not honorable. He is a regular guy born in a bad world who has survived to be a not-so-horrible person. That is why I like him. In a world where chivalry is the ideal, and titles are everything he is comfortable just being him, and I think that is heroic. Jaime says he doesn't care what people think of him, yet we know he does. The Hound truly doesn't, and has accepted his place, surviving using the only tool he has: His brutishness. It's refreshing.

[Winter Wasnt That Bad]

I agree with everything but 4. Reread Sansa's chapters in late ASOS and in AFFC and I think you'll see some rather surprising stuff from the oldest Stark sister. She compares him to quite a few men she meets (Tyrion, Lothor Brune, Dontos, Littlefinger, the Kettleblacks) and he always comes out in front of the competition. There's also the fact that twice when she's pondering weddings and beddings, he randomly pops up out of nowhere. Tyrion would make sense as she is technically married to him, but why would she even consider Sandor Clegane in that context?

If she was after someone pretty to fawn over, it would make far more sense is she thought of Loras Tyrell in that context, especially since she goes a bit crosseyed around Loras before, but she does'nt.

You and LadyJSnow both make good points. I guess Sansa is growing up, and my initial impressions of her are a little stale now. She had such a romantic view of all of what a knight is, and how her life would play out. Which is totally anti-Hound like. But now that she's seeing life for what it truly is for most people in this era (a savage battle just to survive), she can relate to the Hound now.

[Winter Wasnt That Bad]

The Hound is relatable because he is just him. He is no ser, and does not try to be. He has honor but is not honorable. He is a regular guy born in a bad world who has survived to be a not-so-horrible person. That is why I like him. In a world where chivalry is the ideal, and titles are everything he is comfortable just being him, and I think that is heroic. Jaime says he doesn't care what people think of him, yet we know he does. The Hound truly doesn't, and has accepted his place, surviving using the only tool he has: His brutishness. It's refreshing.

Agreed. He is refreshing. So unPC, too. The one person who feels no responsibility to noone, doesn't give one whit about anyone's opinion (be they kings or whores), yet still somehow possesses a sense of honor.

[KhaleesiDany]

I really hope he is alive, he was one of my favorite characters!

There are a couple of things that stood out to me when I was reading the Brienne chapters of aFfC,

1.The Gravedigger

• The size of the novice that was digging the grave for brother Clement and his lameness are consistent with the physical description of the hound and the wounds he received.
  

"On the upper slopes they saw three boys driving sheep, and higher still they passed a lichyard where a brother bigger than Brienne was struggling to dig a grave. From the way he moved, it was plain to see he was lame." (page 523)

• When he is adressed, he lowers his head which I interpreted as trying to hide his face, maybe to sure that his scars were not visible beneath his cowl, which would be a dead giveaway to his identity?
  

"The gravedigger lowered his head. When Dog went to sniff him he dropped his spade and scratched his ear." (page 523) (Also, he has a soft spot for dogs?)

2. Stranger

I don't think anyone could get Stranger into a stall but Sandor. My impression is that he is pretty much unnaproachble to anyone besides Sandor or approved company. Have any of you ever tried to handle over six hundred kilos of uncooperative horse flesh? I have, and it's not fun, :drunk:

Plus, Stranger is mean. Due to a mixture of his temperament and training as a war horse, he would be likely to both bite and strike anyone who approached him, escpecially if those people were trying to force him into a cinfined space,

3. The Elder Brother

• During Brienne's conversation with the Elder Brother about the Hound, he seems to know an awful lot about his life and personality, more so than I would expect from knowing him in his dying hours:
  

" 'He served, but found no pride in service. He fought, but took no pride in victory. He drank, to drown his pain in a sea of wine. He did not love, nor was he loved himself. It was hate that drove him. Though he commited many sins, he never sought forgiveness. Where other men dreamt of love, or wealth, or glory, this man Sandor Clegane dreamt of slaying his own brother, a sin so terrible it makes me shudder to speak of it. Yet that was the bread that nourished him, the fuel that kept his fires burning.Ignoble as it was, the hope of seeing his brother's blood upon his blade was all this sad and angry creature lived for...and even that was taken from him...'

'You sound as if you pity him,' said Brienne.

'I did. You would have pitied him as well, if you had seen him at the end.' " (Page 530)

The Elder brither then goes on to describe his efforts to save/make him comfortable, and when he does describe the death, he specifically says that 'The hound' died in his arms, not Sandor.

• The thing that made me most suspicios of Sandor's death is the Elder brother that Brienne talked to about the Hound has a pretty peculiar idea of death. Before he speaks to her about Sandor, he tells her of his own 'death':
  

" 'All in all, I was a sad man. When I was not fighting, I was drunk. My life was writ in red, in blood and wine'

'When did it change?' asked Brienne.

'When I died in the Battle of the Trident' " (pg 531)

He then continues to describe his life after death as a kind of 'second life' and that a certain part of his personality was what had perished rather than his physical body, effectively rendering him a changed/new man.

After he has talked at length about about this process, Brienne is uncertain.

" 'I see.' Brienne did not know why he was telling her all of this, or what else she out to say.

'Do you?' He leaned forward, his big hands on his knees. 'If so, give up on this quest of yours, the hound is dead...' " (Page 532)

From this I kind of got the feeling that the same kind of thing happened to Sandor. GRRM has always been fond of a gory and undeniable death scene, so why not here ?

I love your theory and I hope it is true!

I couldn't even believe that he died in a storm of swords, when Arya said his name a part of me was like "this is it she's killing him!" but I couldn't believe it. I read through the Brienne chapters in feast waiting for him to show up. Then when I found out he was really dead I was pretty broken up about it. Now I can read on hoping he is alive--these books really do a number on my emotions and my expectations. I don't even know what to think anymore.

I think his last scene in a storm of swords was superb but I don't agree that's a good reason to cut him out of the book completely. Actually I think it is more reason to bring him back because not everyone is on the sansan ship and don't necessarily think go gaga every time they say two words to each other, and that scene makes clear how much he cares about her. He got so drunk because he was upset to hear that she got married to Tyrion and that is why he confesses to Arya. At the end of the book notice Sansa is thinking of him, too.

Well I am pretty much convinced that he is dead, but if he isn't that would be cool.

I thought it was funny that they tried to geld Stranger--HAH!

[Lyanna Stark]

You and LadyJSnow both make good points. I guess Sansa is growing up, and my initial impressions of her are a little stale now. She had such a romantic view of all of what a knight is, and how her life would play out. Which is totally anti-Hound like. But now that she's seeing life for what it truly is for most people in this era (a savage battle just to survive), she can relate to the Hound now.

:agree:

This is almost definitely the point of Sansa's character arc. In the beginning she's a naive, shallow little thing, but at the end of ASOS and in AFFC, she's come to realise that it's not always the pretty, smiling person you should go for, but that there are other values. In Kings Landing, she befriends Dontos and the Hound. She recognises that despite being humiliated and forced to marry Tyrion, a dwarf, he never hurt her.

During AFFC, we also see her becoming better and better ar judging people's characters and motivations, something her poor dear old dad could have used a good helping of back in AGOT. Part of that is definitely because Sandor Clegane was blunt with her about what people are like, but also because he rose above that despite not being pretty, of high birth or having any real reason to except for human decency, empathy and honour.

[TheLightningLord]

I truly hope this speculation is correct. The Hound is my second favorite character in the series behind Ser Jaime, so I was upset to learn he was dead, I guess I just missed some of the details ;)

[turdle]

i hope the hound is dead. give him the gift of mercy, GRRM. the hound died the way the hound should die. don't turn this into a fairy tale for stupid little birds.

[Lyanna Stark]

i hope the hound is dead. give him the gift of mercy, GRRM. the hound died the way the hound should die. don't turn this into a fairy tale for stupid little birds.

So...the Hound should die in agony alone along the Trident? 0.o That's not very nice.

[Winter Wasnt That Bad]

At the risk of beating a dead horse, let's have a show of hands to see who thinks the Hound is truly dead or alive? And when I say alive, I don't mean like the Lightning Lord. Really alive, just laying extremely low for the time being.

Vote Yea if you think he's still alive, and Nay if you think he's in that great castle in the sky.

If you feel the urge, say your reasons for your vote. Maybe some interesting ideas will be shown here.

As for me, I vote Yay. I've already given my reasons, so won't repeat them.

[turdle]

So...the Hound should die in agony alone along the Trident? 0.o That's not very nice.

no, it's not very nice. but it would validate him as a character wouldn't it? wouldn't a miraculous escape from the jaws of death be the opposite of the harsh reality that the hound represents? if sandor were reading a song of ice and fire, he would want the hound to die the way he is portrayed to die.

[WinterfellWoman]

At the risk of beating a dead horse, let's have a show of hands to see who thinks the Hound is truly dead or alive? And when I say alive, I don't mean like the Lightning Lord. Really alive, just laying extremely low for the time being.

Vote Yea if you think he's still alive, and Nay if you think he's in that great castle in the sky.

If you feel the urge, say your reasons for your vote. Maybe some interesting ideas will be shown here.

As for me, I vote Yay. I've already given my reasons, so won't repeat them.

I want to say yay. I really do. However, I'm going to say nay, and this is why:

no, it's not very nice. but it would validate him as a character wouldn't it? wouldn't a miraculous escape from the jaws of death be the opposite of the harsh reality that the hound represents? if sandor were reading a song of ice and fire, he would want the hound to die the way he is portrayed to die.

Reading that a moment ago really put things in a new light for me. That is how the Hound would want to die. It makes sense, and it's totally changed my opinion.

[7V3N]

Reading that a moment ago really put things in a new light for me. That is how the Hound would want to die. It makes sense, and it's totally changed my opinion.

Is it? The Hound just wanted to live to see the death of Gregor, and hoped it would be by his own hand. We also do not know just how bad his wound was. Arya is no good judge, and Sandor was probably dazed from his wound and couldn't think clearly. There is enough to make sure we can have hope without certainty. That is why there is no answer yet. Both sides are equally supportable.

[csm]

I think he is the gravedigger and that he lost his cojones with this inner-peace / redemption phase ( ._.)