Mirri Maz Duur *Spoilers*

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Mere moments before the birth began the child was still moving around in Dany's belly. But when it was born, the child looked like he had been dead for months.

Definitly MMD's magic going on there. As MMD stated to Dany "You knew the price". Rhaego's life for Drogo..

[CaptainTheo]

I've always assumed that Mirri was lying about what Rhaego looked like when he was born, because the description sounds nonsensical. I figured that he was a normal baby that she killed.

However, I also think that Dany was a bit harsh on Mirri, even leaving aside the fact that the khalasar destroyed Mirri's village and way of life and raped her.

1. Mirri warned Drogo not to remove the poultice. He removed it.
   
2. Mirri strongly advised Dany against doing anything to save Drogo's life, eventually admitting, "there is a way... some would say death is cleaner" when Dany really pressed her.
   
3. Mirri stated in no uncertain terms that nobody must enter the tent during the ritual. Jorah brought Dany in there.
   

Thereore, Rhaego (and Mirri) would still be alive if Mirri's advice hadn't been ignored for both case #2 and #3. Mirri even told Dany that only death can pay for life and Dany didn't ask whose, beyond ensuring that it wasn't her own. Admittedly, Mirri severely hurt her cause with what she told Dany afterwards. It's as if Mirri deliberately provoked Dany into killing her, which perhaps she did because she didn't have much of a life left. Dany would have been less likely to burn her if she'd said, "I did tell you not to bring anyone into the tent, and I did what I could to bring Drogo back, but it wasn't enough".

As for case #1 - whether Mirri's poultice was designed to harm or heal Drogo - I'm not sure. I'm leaning towards the latter, given that Dany never accused Mirri of killing Drogo with it; instead she asks for more help. Also, Mirri never tells Dany that she deliberately killed Drogo, which presumably would have, given that she readily admitted that she was happy to see Rhaego dead.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Mirri even told Dany that only death can pay for life and Dany didn't ask whose, beyond ensuring that it wasn't her own

Mirri seems to make it clear (after all is said and done) that it would always have been Rhaego's life that would pay for Drogo's. So Rhaegp would have died no matter what.

The only thing that entering the tent might have changed, IMO, is the appearance Rhaego was born with.

As to the poultice... We might never know whether it was truly supposed to help or not.

[Arlan of Pennytree]

Dany never saw the baby, if I recall correctly.

Clash of kings spoilers :

She does, however

have a vision of a warrior most people assume is a grown up war-lord Rhaego, in the house of the Undying... but it was just that, a vision

Damn those tricky dreams & visions!!

[Arlan of Pennytree]

Could you elaborate? I'm morbidly curious but I really don't want to look it up.

Google "Harlequin ichthyosis"

[CaptainTheo]

Mirri seems to make it clear (after all is said and done) that it would always have been Rhaego's life that would pay for Drogo's. So Rhaegp would have died no matter what.

She did kill the horse first. I don't have the text in front of me now but I interpreted that Dany thought it was only Drogo's horse who had to die and that Dany's son would have been safe if she'd stayed away from the tent during the ritual.

[FakeJaqenH'ghar]

Somewhat off topic, but this thread got me thinking...

Was Mirri directly or indirectly responsible for the birth of Dany's dragons? Do we have any knowledge of Dany's actual plan to try to hatch the eggs before Rhaego/Drogo die? (its been a while since I read AGOT).

Did her blood magic, in any way/shape/form, give the eggs the ability to create the life of Dany's most prized possessions?

[johnnyonthespot]

Somewhat off topic, but this thread got me thinking...

Was Mirri directly or indirectly responsible for the birth of Dany's dragons? Do we have any knowledge of Dany's actual plan to try to hatch the eggs before Rhaego/Drogo die? (its been a while since I read AGOT).

Did her blood magic, in any way/shape/form, give the eggs the ability to create the life of Dany's most prized possessions?

I do remember a passage in the book where Dany felt compelled to draw the eggs close to body her when she went to sleep one night, so it seems that she had some inkling but not any overt, conscious plan. Ultimately, I didn't get the impression that it was Mirri or Dany or anything other than fate itself that finally led to the birth of the dragons.

The book gives a lot more foreshadowing of the eggs eventually coming to life than the TV show did. I watched the show first and was absolutely shocked at that final image of real, live actual dragons!

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

Yep, Dany never saw her baby.

@ KhaleesiDany

What do you mean by "

Drogo, Rhaego and Mirri Maz Durr's are the lives that paid for Drogon, Rhaeger and Viserys. "

at first i thought you meant the 3 dragons but those names are troubling. You mean Rhaegar the baby Robert killed?? i hope not.

Robert did not kill a baby named Rhaegar.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

She did kill the horse first. I don't have the text in front of me now but I interpreted that Dany thought it was only Drogo's horse who had to die and that Dany's son would have been safe if she'd stayed away from the tent during the ritual.

That's what Dany thought, or at least what she had been telling herself. But Mirri had always known it would be Rhaego's life, not just that of the horse.

[Endymion I Targaryen]

1.Dany starts giving birth because of the ritual or because she fell down or it was just the time for her to give birth?

2.Where is Rhaego's body?What kind of mother doesn't ask to see her son's body?

3.She clearly remembers that Jorah killed her son by entering the scene with her,then why later she accuses Mirri?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

1.Dany starts giving birth because of the ritual or because she fell down or it was just the time for her to give birth?

2.Where is Rhaego's body?What kind of mother doesn't ask to see her son's body?

3.She clearly remembers that Jorah killed her son by entering the scene with her,then why later she accuses Mirri?

1. A combination of all three

2. Dany was unconscious for a long time, so the body is most likely already gone by she time she wakes up. She most likely asked off-page.

3. Because Mirri later admits that it was Rhaego's life that paid for Drogo's

[sweetsunray]

I think that initially Mirri tried to heal Drogo, but from the get go he already made clear he was going to ignore her advice on drinking. He then had the poultice replaced with one that would only cause infection by the other healers. By the time he falls from his horse, the infection is already in his blood stream.

Mirri did not kill him, because eventually his wound is actually healed, even though it was described earlier on (upon discovery of the severe infection) as gangrenous: black, dead flesh. But as the infection was already in his blood stream it affected his brain beyond repair.

I'm not even sure whether Mirri actually expected Dany's child would die. But she knew that Dany would have to pay for it in some grievous manner, and that there might be plenty of death and commotion around the tent. I mean she knew that there would be some events outside of her control and the tent, that would lead to a sacrifice being brought in.

It ended up being Dany. As soon as Jorah carried Dany inside while she was in labour, Mirri would have known the unborn child would be the sacrifice. I take Mirri's speech afterwards as that of a woman who had nothing to lose anymore, and decided to dig in the emotional dagger even deeper into Dany.

Mirri is shown to be a woman of having faith the in Shepherd god, that everybody really is his flock. She seems to regard events as signs of where her god wants her to go, as his subconscious tool. And so she does try to heal Drogo in good faith, but increasingly she's shown how Drogo and then Dany self-destruct in Mirri's eyes.

What she did not expect though was Dany to learn from it and use a "fire-life for life" magic herself to hatch the three dragon eggs. Rhaego's life was the price for Drogo's life, so Dany killing Drogo and burning him counts for 2 lifes (Rhaego and Drogo). Mirri's life is the third life for the third egg. That's how I make sense of it.

[dopplerdog]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I kind of like Mirri, and I sympathise with her. From her point of view, Drogo is no better than Genghis Khan. She keeps her promise of "saving" Drogo, warns Dany that "saving" him would cost her a life, and even spares Dany. She could easily have killed all three - but didn't.

Some might argue that Mirri owes them something by being spared - but as she points out, and clearly illustrates with Drogo, what good is being spared if everything that makes life enjoyable is stolen from you?

Many people may come to sympathise with main characters, or with noble characters, but it's worth pointing out what effect their squabbles have on ordinary people. A lot of people get trampled to satisfy the ambitions of a nobleman/woman.

[ftheking]

-Mirri effectively "traded" the baby's life for Drogo's (that would also make sense but it doesn't explain the baby's appearance)

It does still explain it, because it was killed by magic. The ritual might have changed the baby. I think before it was a healthy baby like Dany said and Mirri kinda confirmed.

But when you think of it this basically boils down to Drogo's headstrong attitude.

No way. It was just lucky for Mirri that Drogo played along and she could hide behind that fact. She probably knew for a fact that he wouldn't follow her lowly instruction. Actually, what she did to him was probably unbearable on purpose, so he needed the alcohol and he needed to take it off - a normal man might have screamed in agony and begged for death. So maybe not really luck at all, but all her doing.

I never hated Mirri at all. She had the good right to kill Drogo. Even killing his son, "the stallion who will mount the world" seems rather justified. It kind of comes down to the question: If you could kill baby Hitler, would you? I think I would, if I had the strength, or at least understand when someone else did. Mirri, who just personally had her world and life and the lives of everyone she knew destroyed, really did the right thing from her perspective.

Doesn't change the fact that I felt horrible for Danaeris and understood her attitudes and actions as well.

That said, I thought it was a nice little bit of characterization for Drogo. He may be a pillaging savage by tradition, but deep down he was more open minded than he seemed. He did let one of the Lamb People --who had all the reasons in the world to wish him harm-- tend to his wounds.

Not open minded. He didn't take her seriously. He thought a slave would do what you tell them. He could never be afraid of a slave. He was arrogant and that was his undoing. Same as Viserys actually, who couldn't take the Dothraki seriously.