More Racism - the subtler, gentler, kind

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Either that or it's more about people realising that he's from LA and holy shit, you guys got Asian kids who were actually born in the US, too. It's racist exclusion at its finest.

I don't know, I'm thinking the racial aspect of this story is at least partially overblown. #1, it involves The Knicks. N.Y. is pretty much the media center of the universe. When the Knicks go on a 7 game win streak out of nowhere, it's a big story. #2, the kid came out of the ether. He was on absolutely no ones radar before this run. He was waived by two of the lowliest franchises in the league before the Knicks gave him a shot. His race only adds to the feeding frenzy, but it would be a big story regardless.

[Young Wolf]

I dunno. I don't think this would be nearly as big of a story if he was black kid.

[Ser Greguh]

I dunno. I don't think this would be nearly as big of a story if he was black kid.

The temptation to respond with the phrase "Chigga please" has now officially overwhelmed me.

I throw myself at the mercy of the mods.

[Greywolf2375]

I don't know, I'm thinking the racial aspect of this story is at least partially overblown. #1, it involves The Knicks. N.Y. is pretty much the media center of the universe. When the Knicks go on a 7 game win streak out of nowhere, it's a big story. #2, the kid came out of the ether. He was on absolutely no ones radar before this run. He was waived by two of the lowliest franchises in the league before the Knicks gave him a shot. His race only adds to the feeding frenzy, but it would be a big story regardless.

It would be a story, not nearly as big a story. The focus would be more on that they have done this without Amare & Melo rather than who they did this with.

[Sci-2]

Sports, and allegiance to your town's team, is the most open link to primitive tribalism in people's daily lives. It's where all our basest lizard-brain impulses come out.

I think sports can bring out the best and worst in us. Our ability to respect athletic performance can be a good way to see past differences in race/religion at minimum.

Working in inner city DC, I definitely remember younger kids who would high-five and give a bro-hug to their team members. For people who need that "excuse" to give in to a natural human bond I think sports can be incredibly necessary.

ETA: Actually, to be fair, I think that can be any talent driven group activity, and "excuse" isn't fair either. Damn it, I was trying to be nice, but my natural asshole tendencies got in the way.

[TerraPrime]

Re: Eefa

Since you called dibs, I will not back up all your arguments on Asian issues. When do we start?

Re: dub

I dunno. I don't think this would be nearly as big of a story if he was black kid.

Perhaps because if he were not Asian, he might have had his talents recognized earlier than 2 weeks ago? And so, less of a surprise?

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

:lol: "not"? Shit, shot myself in the foot there, didn't I?

[Arrogant Bastard]

Oh, another angle, too, is that Lin's story illustrates how discrimination and racism can be present in areas where the physical abilities are demonstrable and evident. I think some people assume that just because something is clear-cut, like athletic ability, that there can be no biases at work against people. I mean, after all, if someone can hit a home run or if someone can throw a big touch down, why wouldn't they be given a role of prominence in a sports team? Right?

I don't know about this. I'm sure part of the reason why Lin was overlooked was because he was Chinese, but not all of it. A lot of players in any sport get overlooked when it seems like they should have been noticed much earlier. And Lin may not have had great workouts or whatever they test, and it's like he's super athletic. Plus, he played at Harvard in the Ivy League conference; I'm sure a lot of scouts didn't see him play at the time, and if they did, it's hard to determine how good he is playing against that competition. If Lin was as athletic and explosive like Lebron James, no scout would have overlooked him, Chinese or not.

[TerraPrime]

:lol: "not"? Shit, shot myself in the foot there, didn't I?

:lol: I mean now. Silly typo. But I will leave it because it's funny. :rofl:

[Xray the Enforcer]

:lol: I mean now. Silly typo. But I will leave it because it's funny. :rofl:

Priceless. :lol:

[Nukelavee]

I've watched that clip 6 times.

I'm not seeing a "shit eating frat boy grin" on that anchor. I can't even see his expression when he actually says it - it's a shot of teh woman laughing.

So - here's the question - Do you think maybe you might be reading something into the delivery of that question that wasn't there, but her laughing is fooling you into thinking the worst? Considering that eyes are a feature people point out in sterotypes of Asians?

I mean, at this point, everybody on this topic is kinda biased towards seeing racism in things about him, because there are quite a few clear examples showing it exists.

Admittedly, I'd never heard of the guy until I read a couple stories earlier this week (the chink and the cookie incidents), and I don't follow sports at all, but it doesn't surprise me that somebody would say things like that. Vaguely surprised some people manage to get jobs covering sports (or anything, Rosie), and still be stupid enough to spout that shit off.

[Jaime L]

Perhaps because if he were not Asian, he might have had his talents recognized earlier than 2 weeks ago? And so, less of a surprise?

Maybe, but I doubt it.

Any 6'3 PG from Harvard is going to have an uphill climb because he didn't go to a major basketball program and hasn't played against elite competition yet.

Considering how International the NBA has become with some of its biggest stars being from Spain, Germany and China, I don't think not-Black is an impediment how teams look at you. Your measurables and who you play against, are.

[Young Wolf]

Perhaps because if he were not Asian, he might have had his talents recognized earlier than 2 weeks ago? And so, less of a surprise?

No. Because racial stereotypes are more out in the open in sports.

Nobody expects the white kid to run faster than the black kid.

Nobody expects the asian kid to school someone on the basketball court.

Apparently the NFL still thinks black athletes can't be a pocket QB.

See comments like this by Jimmy the Greek:

On January 16, 1988, he was fired by the CBS network (where he had been a regular on NFL Today since 1976) after commenting to WRC-TV reporter Ed Hotaling in a Washington, D.C. restaurant that African Americans were naturally superior athletes at least in part because they had been bred to produce stronger offspring during slavery: “

The black is a better athlete to begin with because he's been bred to be that way, because of his high thighs and big thighs that goes up into his back, and they can jump higher and run faster because of their bigger thighs and he's bred to be the better athlete because this goes back all the way to the Civil War when during the slave trade'n the big… the owner… the slave owner would, would, would, would breed his big black to his big woman so that he could have ah, ah big, ah big, ah big black kid see…

Or take these remarks by former Dodgers VP Al Campanis:

Campanis' remarks took place on the late-night ABC News program Nightline, coinciding with the 40th anniversary of Jackie Robinson's Major League Baseball debut (April 15, 1947). Campanis, who had played alongside Robinson and was known for being close to him, was being interviewed about the subject. Nightline anchorman Ted Koppel asked him why, at the time, there had been few black managers and no black general managers in Major League Baseball. Campanis' reply was that blacks "may not have some of the necessities to be, let's say, a field manager, or, perhaps, a general manager" for these positions. Elsewhere in the interview he said that blacks are often poor swimmers "because they don't have the buoyancy." Koppel says he gave Campanis several opportunities to clarify ("Do you really believe that?") or back down on his remarks but Campanis confirmed his views with his replies. A protest erupted the next morning and he resigned two days later.

*shrugs* It's fucked up out there.

[Greywolf2375]

I've watched that clip 6 times.

I'm not seeing a "shit eating frat boy grin" on that anchor. I can't even see his expression when he actually says it - it's a shot of teh woman laughing.

So - here's the question - Do you think maybe you might be reading something into the delivery of that question that wasn't there, but her laughing is fooling you into thinking the worst? Considering that eyes are a feature people point out in sterotypes of Asians?

I mean, at this point, everybody on this topic is kinda biased towards seeing racism in things about him, because there are quite a few clear examples showing it exists.

Admittedly, I'd never heard of the guy until I read a couple stories earlier this week (the chink and the cookie incidents), and I don't follow sports at all, but it doesn't surprise me that somebody would say things like that. Vaguely surprised some people manage to get jobs covering sports (or anything, Rosie), and still be stupid enough to spout that shit off.

No, I don't think I am seeing into it more than it is. I think I am seeing someone try to make an unnecessary comment and get away with it as a play on words.

Watch the 18-22 second portion again.

[Ser Greguh]

No, I don't think I am seeing into it more than it is. I think I am seeing someone try to make an unnecessary comment and get away with it as a play on words.

Watch the 18-22 second portion again.

You are correct. Having now watched the clip I agree that this dude was trying to slip in a little racist innuendo and that it's hard to argue. In transitioning from a specific discussion of Lin's physical attributes to "What about his eyes", the anchor was clearly trying to get away with something. A more full statement of, say, "One of the things that makes him great as a Point Guard is really his eyes, his court sense, his vision, the fact that he can always deliver the ball to the right spot" would be very different. Such comments are common in the sports world and transparently have nothing to do with race. This was clearly something different.

[Arrogant Bastard]

Considering how International the NBA has become with some of its biggest stars being from Spain, Germany and China, I don't think not-Black is an impediment how teams look at you. Your measurables and who you play against, are.

This. Yao Ming was taken number one in the draft; nobody cared about him being Chinese, he had good experience in the Chinese Basketball Association and of course being 7'5 never hurts.

Also, I don't think Lin would be hyped nearly as much as he is if not for him being of Chinese descent. Let's be honest, he's good, but he's not a top five point guard and likely never will be. He's playing really well at the moment and most importantly to the media he's different (Chinese-American) than any other player in the history of the NBA. Like with Tebow, ESPN is doing all it can to make him seem better than he really is (though unlike Tebow, Lin can pass the ball effectively). All the stuff about Lin breaking records is pretty much crap; scoring the most points in your first five starts is not a record, it's a mostly meaningless statistic. Scoring the most points of a rookie or first time starter in a season is a record, one that Lin wouldn't pass even if it wasn't a lockout shortened season.

[Tempra]

I've watched that clip 6 times.

I'm not seeing a "shit eating frat boy grin" on that anchor. I can't even see his expression when he actually says it - it's a shot of teh woman laughing.

So - here's the question - Do you think maybe you might be reading something into the delivery of that question that wasn't there, but her laughing is fooling you into thinking the worst? Considering that eyes are a feature people point out in sterotypes of Asians?

I mean, at this point, everybody on this topic is kinda biased towards seeing racism in things about him, because there are quite a few clear examples showing it exists.

Admittedly, I'd never heard of the guy until I read a couple stories earlier this week (the chink and the cookie incidents), and I don't follow sports at all, but it doesn't surprise me that somebody would say things like that. Vaguely surprised some people manage to get jobs covering sports (or anything, Rosie), and still be stupid enough to spout that shit off.

What bothered me is that after he remarked, "what about those eyes?", he remained silent and grinned (look right after the woman laughs). Had he said "what eyes Lin must have to make some of the passes and shots that he does!", I would have said people are overreacting. But as it is, the comment fails the smell test.

[Young Wolf]

This. Yao Ming was taken number one in the draft; nobody cared about him being Chinese, he had good experience in the Chinese Basketball Association and of course being 7'5 never hurts.

Listen, Yao was taken #1 in the draft because he was over 7'...period. If he was a 6'8" forward he's not a #1 pick, probably not even a first rounder.

[Nukelavee]

Greguh - I've watched that bit over and over. Honestly, I don't..

Hmm, how about this - I'm not saying he wasn't - but it isn't clear to me he was. I'd really have to be able to view him saying it, not hearing it and seeing the female anchor, to make a call on it.

I think it is kinda cool that some nearly average height guy has come out of no where to make a big splash, I also think, yes, him being Asian makes for an even tastier story. (yes, I also agree that is a type of racism)

[Arrogant Bastard]

Listen, Yao was taken #1 in the draft because he was over 7'...period. If he was a 6'8" forward he's not a #1 pick, probably not even a first rounder.

Yes, I know this. I was trying to be kinda funny with the "being 7'5 never hurts" and it clearly didn't work, but yeah, his height is the main reason he was taken number one.

ETA: Just realized the OP left out the most offensive reaction to Lin. Jason Whitlock, sports hack extraordinaire of Foxsports, tweeted this gem after the Knicks beat the Lakers a couple weeks ago.

Some lucky lady in NYC is gonna feel a couple inches of pain tonight