Former Lord of Winterfell Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Flip Murray is a good counter example to the Lin hype in terms of highlighting how the racial aspect is almost certainly driving the bus on this one.I don't think there is a good counterexample because what Lin has done is freakish. The NBA is a league that is overwhelmingly dominated by highly drafted players. Rarely, a player drafted in the second round may hit it big. To put that in perspective, there have been only 12 players since 1986 drafted in the second round who have made an all-star team, and only one undrafted player to make an NBA All-Star Team during that period. Basically, if you don't come into the league wiht high expectations, your chances of turning out to have star-level talent are extremely slim. Lin was undrafted.Like I said, what he has done is freakish. Since the ABA and NBA merged in 1970 only one player in that timespan has scored 89 points in his first three career starts. Not LeBron James, not Hakeem Olajuwon, and not Michael Jordan. Jeremy Lin. As a starter, he's averaged 24.8 points per game, which is the fifth highest ppg in the entire league. And unlike most flash-in-the-pans who just get a hot hand, he hasn't just been scoring -- he's also averaging 9.4 assists per game, which is third in the league, and the only two guys ahead of him aren't even scoring 15 points per game.And, he's not just putting up great stats. His team was 8-15 until Lin was inserted in the starting lineup, and they've since gone 8-2. That's just nuts. And on top of that, he's playing in the media capital of the entire country. Anyone who thinks the New York sports media wouldn't be deifying any player that did that doesn't know sports.Okay, so there have been a few douchbags make stupid comments. But overall, the reaction to Lin has been what it is because American sports fans love an underdog. They love to see the guy that nobody gave a chance prove everyone wrong. The dude was sleeping on his brother's couch because he didn't even have a place of his own. That's freaking Rocky shit right there, and people love that. I suppose to the extent his race matters in the reaction, it might be the recognition that because of stereotypes, he's had to prove himself even more, so it just magnifies the underdog component. The guy nobody gave a chance to is proving the world wrong, and we love that.I really can't see a way to spin that into some sort of negative comment on society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verboten Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I am not sure what the source of confusion is. One person is only one data point.I was actually asking where you saw people doing that but okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Thanks for the context FLOW. That does make more sense, and why this coverage has been more pronounced than that of Yao Ming.Also, I have to say it - Verboten's new avatar is the coolest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickg Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Yao Ming went through a similar situation when he came into the league. the deal with Shaq for instance, or a team they were visiting giving away free fortune cookies to fans. Despite the fact that he huge and highly skilled, there were plenty of people guaranteeing he wouldn't amount to anything in the NBA. Mainly because he is Chinese, and, you know, the Chinese can't play basketball. Stereotypes are huge in basketball though. Black dudes can jump high, they are flashy, and aggressive. White guys can shoot and have "good motors". Basketball as a whole is looked down on by many because of its thug/criminal players which is unfortunate and not true for the most part.I guess him being Asian is a big deal to casual fans, but really, the fact that he's from Harvard, ( a school that has very few players in the league now and in the past ) he was undrafted, and cut by several teams ( rockets included /sigh ) is what's so extraordinary. Hell, the Knicks were about to cut him. So he's thrown into his first meaningful minutes as a starter of the freaking knicks and is absolutely freakin killing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLU-RAY Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 and jeremy lin is a big deal because the media is making him a big deal. sure, he has played well as a relative unknown, but it is the media latching onto him and making him into a huge story. why are they doing this? because he is asian. if he was black or white he would get a mention here or there on espn but not be such a potential media superstar. his being asian is the subtle and hidden real story of it all. it is not that he went to harvard. it is not that he was undrafted. it is that he is asian.Chef, I love you, but this is an insane comment. The story wouldn't be as big if he weren't Asian, sure. But his being Asian is only one of like four or five elements to this. He has resurrected basketball in NYC almost singlehandedly (I just got off a train full of folks rocking 17 jerseys. I'm pretty sure they only started making these two weeks ago). He's set all manner of records for a player in their first "X" number of starts. He's scoring a lot AND racking up a huge assist total. And someone doing all of these out of Harvard without being drafted into the NBA... yeah, this story would still be getting about 85% of the coverage it's currently getting if he were black or white (i.e., it'd still be everywhere all the damn time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Lord of Winterfell Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I guess him being Asian is a big deal to casual fans, but really, the fact that he's from Harvard, ( a school that has very few players in the league now and in the past ) he was undrafted, and cut by several teams ( rockets included /sigh ) is what's so extraordinary. Hell, the Knicks were about to cut him. So he's thrown into his first meaningful minutes as a starter of the freaking knicks and is absolutely freakin killing it.The fact that he kept getting cut...that just can't help but make you smile. In an era when sports can seem kind of "canned" and institutionalized, and more about the "business" than the sport, there is something pure about seeing the guy who got cut proving everybody wrong. yeah, this story would still be getting about 85% of the coverage it's currently getting if he were black or white (i.e., it'd still be everywhere all the damn time). Knowing that he was probably an even bigger underdog because of stereotypes just makes it sweeter. I don't think the recognition that there are stereotypes out there, and recognizing and appauding those who overcome them, is racist or a bad thing. People love the fact that the guy who succeeded was the one all the conventional wisdom said would not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickg Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 The fact that he kept getting cut...that just can't help but make you smile.  In an era when sports can seem kind of "canned" and institutionalized, and more about the "business" than the sport, there is something pure about seeing the guy who got cut proving everybody wrong.  Exactly. Despite the fact that my home team cut him before he exploded, I've enjoyed every minute of it. Hell, im DVRing Knicks games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 2. Jeremy Lin is ESPECIALLY good for the image of the Asian-American male. As a Taiwanese-American female I am ecstatic to see such a positive image. He can't even Tebow me with his Christianity. I will stan for him, and stan hard (to take a term from ONTD).This is why I have a good deal of affection for the Harold and Kumar movies. It might be the first time in a Hollywood movie an Asian guy gets laid. Think about it. Did Jackie Chan or Jet Li get any play in their Hollywood movies? Bruce Lee? Not even the Asian guy in Revenge of the Nerds got laid. Asian guys are emasculated in Hollywood movies. At best they're martial arts guys who remain sexually unthreatening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord O' Bones Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Jackie Chan got plenty of play. Let's not get crazy here.Of course he also portrayed Chun-Li at one point (in one of the most hilarious action I'd ever seen at the time.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Jackie Chan got plenty of play. Let's not get crazy here.In which Hollywood movie? There was a Rush Hour where Rosalyn Sanchez flirted with him. That's all I can remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinDonner Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Romeo Must Die, dude. Jet Li as actual romantic interest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord O' Bones Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 In which Hollywood movie? There was a Rush Hour where Rosalyn Sanchez flirted with him. That's all I can remember.Fair enough. He got most of his play in Hong Kong movies.And good lord did he get mad play IRL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Yeah, the Lin-as-Asian thing - I think that while there's a bit of news there, for the most part it's been glossed over. The newscasters in Seattle were talking about his being from Harvard more than him being Asian. If he was white or black he'd still be the biggest story right now, period. As FLOW said, no one does this in the NBA. The closest related sports story I can think of is something like Kurt Warner, where he went from being a grocery bagger to winning a superbowl and shocked everyone. And even then, there were hints with Warner - his time in NFL Europe, the system, etc. With Lin we had a team without their big superstar and a couple other injuries which had sucked for the entire season, and their starting PG had been in four other teams prior to this. The guy was sleeping on a couch of his brother's for the last couple weeks. He was not only undrafted, he wasn't a scholarship player in college either. Harvard isn't a big basketball school regardless, and Lin didn't win big accolades when he was there.If someone made a sports movie about this, no one would believe it - it's way too implausible.I'm sure that the Asian thing is being played out in some places, but as far as I can tell it's very, very minor. Especially compared to all the rest. Hell, he rightfully eclipses Tebow as The Story and really doesn't deserve to be compared to Tebow; with him his team is winning because he's playing great. With him no one expected a damn thing (compared to the 1st rounder spent on Tebow). With Lin we saw nothing in college compared to a two-time national championship winning QB who was everywhere in the media for 4 years.It's crazy. It's Linsanity.(also, a note: I had no idea that he was Chinese descent until about a week ago. All I had heard about him was on the radio. they didn't mention it. Really, not a big deal) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Romeo Must Die, dude. Jet Li as actual romantic interest!Did he ever kiss Aaliyah? The most intimate contact he had with her in that movie was when he used her as a martial arts weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yagathai Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 To be fair, I've had some times with my steel-edged Japanese war fan that I've never had with any woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mya Stone Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I can't believe people are even defending the dudes who are making racist remarks. Instead of asking us if we're being oversensitive, why can't everyone else be under-sensitive, bullheaded, or ignorant?The eyes comment is downright lobotomy-stupid. What about his eyes? If he were really talking about Lin's eyes on the court, he'd say court vision. No one says oh man, Drew Brees has fabulous eyes to see his receivers for them Hail Marys. They say he has great vision on the field.I've quit reading Tweets about Jeremy Lin because half of them are insensitive or downright racist in some way.As for Lin vs. Yao Ming, let's face it: Yao Ming was already fulfilling a few racial stereotypes that Americans hold. First, he's actually Chinese so his English isn't the best. He's a foreigner so he'll fall into our expected roles of what a foreigner is. The racism against Lin is much more veiled and insidious. It's the same kind of racism that makes people say to us. "Wow, your English is so good!" Lin is experiencing the stigma of the perpetual foreigner despite being an American citizen.Let's also clarify, here: Lin is Taiwanese-American, and we're happy to have him.As you are my favorite Asian female friend, I support your stance. Fuck all the haters. Racists, all of you. Me and my Asian friends are gonna go eat some dim sun and do math equations for fun, cuz that's how we roll.I obviously have nothing to add to this argument but I wanted Mina to know she's my favorite Asian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Greguh Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 As you are my favorite Asian female friend, I support your stance. Fuck all the haters. Racists, all of you. Me and my Asian friends are gonna go eat some dim sun and do math equations for fun, cuz that's how we roll.I obviously have nothing to add to this argument but I wanted Mina to know she's my favorite Asian. Don't forget to throw in some Starcraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Mord Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I'm deeply disappointed in the character of NBA sportscasting that this is where they go regarding Lin. After all the stories of racially motivated adversity in sports and all the circle-jerk self-congratulation pride in getting past racism in the field, to not even hesitate whipping this shit out is just stupid on its face.The only way in which race should be at all relevant for these guys, is to be embarrassed by the racism which previously held Lin back, and to shame the fans with the fortune cookie banners. To do aught but ignore race in every other way is, if not racist outright, then a gross moral failure."Racially insensitive" seems made up, in the sense of needlessly and insultingly apologizing for their behavior. It basically says, the victims of persistent racism are inclined to hysterics, so we need to be extra sensitive around them.I'm gun-shy about the word racism, but no other word or concept really seems to come close to these idiocies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Stone Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I'm not sure the Fortune Cookie thing should be taken as offensive. A few years ago the Nebraska Basketball team had a big dude from Australia who was really good. People would show up with signs with Kangaroos and such on them, or even dress like a Kangaroo. Unless fortune cookies have an underlying racial undertone that I am unaware of, aside from being an American food sold at Asian-American restaurants. The big difference between the treatment of Yao and Lin has to do with athleticism. Yao isn't a freak athlete for his size. He's just a freak size. He's no slouch, but you don't see him jumping out of the arena either. Lin on the other hand, is an amazing athlete. He's explosive, which people don't associate with Asians. It's pretty clear his Tiger Mother had him running sprints instead of reading books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 As you are my favorite Asian female friend, I support your stance. Fuck all the haters. Racists, all of you. Me and my Asian friends are gonna go eat some dim sun and do math equations for fun, cuz that's how we spring roll.I obviously have nothing to add to this argument but I wanted Mina to know she's my favorite Asian. Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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