Fearsome Fred Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 How would the FM use a dragon though?They'd disguise it as a unicorn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lykos Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 At first I didn´t like the idea that a FM killed Balon, mostly because it would be taking the vision of the Ghost of Highheart too literally. A man with no face can be any unknown. The other thing that bothered me was the price the FM ask. Many of you made excellent suggestions, but there is still one weak spot. Why did Euron need such a costly assassin, just to appease Asha, was there no easier way?What I really like about this theory is that I always had the feeling that the FM must have some agenda of their own, other than granting the gift. I hope Arya will be able to keep her warging abilities secret and find out what they´re up to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rydis2 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 the only problem I have with this theory..isn't really the theory itself..but inconsistant information. We are told that hiring a FM is very expensive in the first book..but we get first hand look at the cost of others who hire FM..and it is never a cost. People give up random things..usualy just something important to themselves to have someone killed. I dont think the FM care how important the person is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What is dead may never die Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Perhaps they want to hatch a dragon not to use as a weapon, but to experiment on to find out the weakness of dragons?This makes a whole lot of sense as well. Since there is a lot of discussion as to the payment for the murdering of Balon, assuming that it was in fact the FM; perhaps the FM were contracted to kill Dany's dragons before Euron contracted them to kill Balon, thus them accepting the dragon egg as payment.With a dragon egg in their possession and Jaqen at the Citadel likely looking for the dragon book (Marwyn said it was the Maesters who killed the last dragons); they would have the means to fulfill their contract to kill Dany's dragons.Awesome thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 At first I didn´t like the idea that a FM killed Balon, mostly because it would be taking the vision of the Ghost of Highheart too literally. A man with no face can be any unknown. The other thing that bothered me was the price the FM ask. Many of you made excellent suggestions, but there is still one weak spot. Why did Euron need such a costly assassin, just to appease Asha, was there no easier way?I thought the vision pretty clearly suggested a Faceless Man hire. The vision needn't be too literal -- the one-eyed drowned crow represents Euron.He needed to get rid of Balon and have it look like an accident and not be tied back to him in any way. A Faceless Man could do that -- make it look like Balon simply fell, and not go around blabbing.the only problem I have with this theory..isn't really the theory itself..but inconsistant information. We are told that hiring a FM is very expensive in the first book..but we get first hand look at the cost of others who hire FM..and it is never a cost. People give up random things..usualy just something important to themselves to have someone killed. I dont think the FM care how important the person is.Except that they do care, according to Littlefinger. The cost is proportional to the target. And if you "give up" anything, that's still a "cost." A cost doesn't have to imply currency. Even if you do think a cost can only refer to money, we DO have an example of someone paying literal wealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackTalon Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 It never occurred to me that Euron could have been lying about the dragon egg (but man was I pissed at him when I read that) ... it would make sense too, after all his whole crew must have known that it was brought aboard and Euron must have expected them to gossip and spread the news.What better way to explain the absence of the egg than to claim he threw it overboard? he is just crazy enough to make that seem believable to the other Ironborn.And the connection between the faceless man in the citadel looking for a key and the last book about dragons locked away in some vault ... damn that is going to be a long wait for TWOW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rydis2 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I thought the vision pretty clearly suggested a Faceless Man hire. The vision needn't be too literal -- the one-eyed drowned crow represents Euron.He needed to get rid of Balon and have it look like an accident and not be tied back to him in any way. A Faceless Man could do that -- make it look like Balon simply fell, and not go around blabbing.Except that they do care, according to Littlefinger. The cost is proportional to the target. And if you "give up" anything, that's still a "cost." A cost doesn't have to imply currency. Even if you do think a cost can only refer to money, we DO have an example of someone paying literal wealth.And we are to believe littlefinger? He doesn't tell anyone the truth. And seeing as he was the treasurer at the time, and talking about cost, they were directly referring to currency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 And we are to believe littlefinger? He doesn't tell anyone the truth. And seeing as he was the treasurer at the time, and talking about cost, they were directly referring to currency.What would Littlefinger have to gain by lying about the cost of killing Daenerys? Unlike Varys, there's nothing to imply that he'd do anything to protect them. He was one of the proponents for going ahead with the assassination. More than likely, him balking at the cost was done to give some insight into what it was.And like I said, we do have an example of someone giving up an extreme amount of wealth to hire a Faceless Man. But to say that cost "only" applies to currency is also incorrect, as that same man also had to give up his daughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingerly Grumkin Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 i have writtin extensively for the past 30 min on this thread defending and questioning but mostly deleting. Anyways I never thought that Euron hired a FM, its to simple... he would be a kinslayer, which i doubt that otherwise Vic would (prob) have been offed as well. But this thread does make sense, however my prob is this; Why would the FM want a dragon, i thought that the FM were all ninja like, have no face, poison coins, pushing people off bridges, etc. A dragon is kinda in your face, kinda goes against there methods. Alas no, i think Balon's murderer is still a mystery and the Dragon Egg that was thrown off the ship was no Dragon Egg, it was a Kraken Egg.p.s. Free Shadow, nice thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Alas no, i think Balon's murderer is still a mystery and the Dragon Egg that was thrown off the ship was no Dragon Egg, it was a Kraken Egg.I'm honestly surprised that it's still of question of whether a Faceless Man was hired or not. Maybe which Faceless Man, but not a Faceless Man. :dunno:And Protar had a very good idea as to why they might want an egg: If they want to kill and/or fight Dany's dragons, they'd need more information about them. Jaqen can get the book from the Citadel, but how do they "test" to make sure what it says is true? They'd need their own egg.ETA: Also, a kraken is just another word for a squid, apparently. I don't think it'd lay anything that could be confused for a dragon egg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Ou Pas Cap Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 What does Euron treasure?His health and his boyish dream of "flying" which now translated itself into "getting dragons and conquering the world".I am sure he would rather have killed Balon with own hands than sacrificed own health. So a dragon (egg) was the highest personall sacrifice FM could have hoped to extract from him. I really love the parallel that his egg was "thrown away into the sea" as Balon was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ojji Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 i have writtin extensively for the past 30 min on this thread defending and questioning but mostly deleting. Anyways I never thought that Euron hired a FM, its to simple... he would be a kinslayer, which i doubt that otherwise Vic would (prob) have been offed as well. But this thread does make sense, however my prob is this; Why would the FM want a dragon, i thought that the FM were all ninja like, have no face, poison coins, pushing people off bridges, etc. A dragon is kinda in your face, kinda goes against there methods. Alas no, i think Balon's murderer is still a mystery and the Dragon Egg that was thrown off the ship was no Dragon Egg, it was a Kraken Egg.p.s. Free Shadow, nice threadWhy would Euron care if he was a kinslayer, he doesn't strike me as a god fearing type Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Why would Euron care if he was a kinslayer, he doesn't strike me as a god fearing typeHe may not care, but the rest of the Ironborn would. And not fearing any god would be little use if they decided to feed him to the Drowned god, rather than making him king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingerly Grumkin Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I'm honestly surprised that it's still of question of whether a Faceless Man was hired or not. Maybe which Faceless Man, but not a Faceless Man. :dunno:And Protar had a very good idea as to why they might want an egg: If they want to kill and/or fight Dany's dragons, they'd need more information about them. Jaqen can get the book from the Citadel, but how do they "test" to make sure what it says is true? They'd need their own egg.ETA: Also, a kraken is just another word for a squid, apparently. I don't think it'd lay anything that could be confused for a dragon egg.I'm sure it was a FM, i dont think Balon slipped, thats silly (idk about Stannis' leeches). But i dont think Euron hired him, Kinslayer is a scary word.i dont think they want to fight Dany's dragons, maybe Dany but not dragons. First we thought that Targaryens killed dragons, then we learned it was normal knights, then we found out it was Maesters, dont make it syrio forel.i think a Kraken and a squid are different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sand Snake No. 9 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 It's one thing to have a dragon's egg, it's another thing to hatch it. So I don't think that just obtaining a dragons egg is going to hurt Euron that much or help the FM that much, if hatching their own dragons for research purposes is their goal. However, if Euron gave them the egg, and the instructions to hatch it, which he acquired after years of studying magic and combing through the ruins of Valyria, that would be paying an enormous price. Or to turn this into a gift of the magi scenario, now Euron has the knowledge to hatch a dragon, but the FM have the egg. Given what we know of Braavosi and their feelings about dragons, Valyrians and slavers, it might be enough for the FM to keep a dragon out of Euron's hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Remarkable Other Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 i have writtin extensively for the past 30 min on this thread defending and questioning but mostly deleting. Anyways I never thought that Euron hired a FM, its to simple... he would be a kinslayer, which i doubt that otherwise Vic would (prob) have been offed as well. But this thread does make sense, however my prob is this; Why would the FM want a dragon, i thought that the FM were all ninja like, have no face, poison coins, pushing people off bridges, etc. A dragon is kinda in your face, kinda goes against there methods. Alas no, i think Balon's murderer is still a mystery and the Dragon Egg that was thrown off the ship was no Dragon Egg, it was a Kraken Egg.p.s. Free Shadow, nice threadI think he considers Vic the submissive type. And he is partially right.Also he will probably try to off him when he returns from Mereen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I'm sure it was a FM, i dont think Balon slipped, thats silly (idk about Stannis' leeches). But i dont think Euron hired him, Kinslayer is a scary word.That's why he did it in such a way that it wouldn't get back to him. It's implied that a one-eyed drowned crow hired the Faceless Man. Who would that be? It could not possibly be a one-eyed, Drowned God-worshiping ironborn reaver nicknamed Crow's Eye, could it? :PI doubt he saw Victarion as much of a threat to getting the Seastone Chair. It was Balon he had to kill to force a kingsmoot.i dont think they want to fight Dany's dragons, maybe Dany but not dragons. First we thought that Targaryens killed dragons, then we learned it was normal knights, then we found out it was Maesters, dont make it syrio forel.I think at this point, fighting Dany and fighting dragons are one and the same. We know that the Faceless Men are anti-Valyrian and anti-dragon, from what Arya learns.i think a Kraken and a squid are differentConsidering that the sigil looks just like a squid, has the same number of tentacles as a squid and that the mythological kraken was probably just a squid that people thought was something else, I'm taking a shot in the dark and saying that a kraken and a squid are nigh interchangeable or at least very, very similar, such that a dragon egg and a kraken's egg could not be confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sand Snake No. 9 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 FWIW, I think the term "kraken" applies only to giant squid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 FWIW, I think the term "kraken" applies only to giant squid.Giant or not, it's still a squid. :P My point is, no one could possibly mistake a squid egg for a dragon egg. Or use the terms interchangeably, or say that you tossed a dragon egg when it was actually a kraken egg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingerly Grumkin Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 That's why he did it in such a way that it wouldn't get back to him. It's implied that a one-eyed drowned crow hired the Faceless Man. Who would that be? It could not possibly be a one-eyed, Drowned God-worshiping ironborn reaver nicknamed Crow's Eye, could it? :PIts not like he is the only 1 eyed guy in ASIOAFI think at this point, fighting Dany and fighting dragons are one and the same. We know that the Faceless Men are anti-Valyrian and anti-dragon, from what Arya learns.do we? im inclined to ask where we learned that. But regardless the FM are not an army, they are humble priests who cannot acknowledge that they are Starks and a Lady of the North. The Dragon is a much prouder animal, goes against everythingMaybe your right about the squid, we cant prove either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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