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Euron paid the Faceless Men with his dragon egg


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Its not like he is the only 1 eyed guy in ASIOAF

He's the only one-eyed guy we know who is nicknamed Crow's Eye. Is it really a stretch to conclude that a one-eyed drowned crow who hired a Faceless Man to kill Balon refers to a one-eyed guy nicknamed Crow's Eye who worships the Drowned God and has a reason to want Balon dead?

do we? im inclined to ask where we learned that. But regardless the FM are not an army, they are humble priests who cannot acknowledge that they are Starks and a Lady of the North. The Dragon is a much prouder animal, goes against everything

If you need to know that the Faceless Men have good reasons to want to take out dragons and/or Valyrians, I suggest you reread Arya's Braavos chapters.

Maybe your right about the squid, we cant prove either

You're right. It's not enough that it looks like a squid, or that krakens in mythology were just giant squid, or that I'm pretty sure they're referred to (snarkily) as squid in the books at least once, or that they have the same number of tentacles as a squid. I'm sure people mistake their eggs for dragon eggs all the time.

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redriver

Hedge Knight

Posted 18 February 2012 - 01:06 PM

snapback.pngDoran II, on 18 February 2012 - 11:27 AM, said:

What makes me curious is, how did he paid for it? We know the faceless men don't ask just money, they ask for a sacrifice, what kind of sacrifice he had to do?

Maybe the dragon egg he claimed to have thrown away?

Great minds think alike,it would appear.I notice the OP contributed to this thread too.

Hmmm

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Here's a quote from AFFC that may help the discussion. It's the kindly man talking to Arya:

[...]Revolts were common in the mines, but few accomplished much. The dragonlords of the old Freehold were strong in sorcery, and lesser men defied them at their peril. The first Faceless Man was one who did.”

Isn't Daenerys ostensibly against slavery though? Wouldn't that somehow mitigate the fact that she's a Valyrian whelp with dragons? I mean, I'm enjoying these theories, but I'm not thoroughly convinced that the FM would plot to kill Dany and/or her dragons just yet (yes, even with the above quote).

Also in the same chapter, when Arya asks who the first Faceless Man was, the kindly man says:

“No one,” he answered. “Some say he was a slave himself. Others insist he was a freeholder’s son, born of noble stock. Some will even tell you he was an overseer who took pity on his charges. The truth is, no one knows.

Note that some believe the first FM - i.e. the slaves' "liberator" - could have been a member of the Valyrian nobility, or an overseer. Just food for thought...

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I came up with my first real theory and did not find anyone discussing it. I can be a fool, but I think Euron paid the Faceless Men with the dragon egg he claims to have thrown away "in one of the dark moods".

We know that it is very costly to hire a Faceless Man, especially if the victim is an important person. In the previous books it was said that to send a FM after Daenerys, when she was still a girl and not even a khaleesi, would have been the same as to hire an army. It was also mentioned that one dragon egg is enough to hire a fleet of ships.

Balon was the lord of the Iron islands and at war for the position of the king. So a dragon egg could just about meet the price for his head.

The last we heard of Jaqen H'Ghar, he was infiltrating the Citadel. And Tyrion has said that the only surviving copy of the book "The Death of the Dragons" was supposedly hidden away in a locked vault beneath the Citadel. It is named "The Death of the Dragons", but it can be generally about dragons including information how to hatch them.

I admit not knowing how exactly would the FM plan to use a dragon that use being relevant to the plot.

Congratulations on your "first real theory",commiserations on your amnesia.

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Isn't Daenerys ostensibly against slavery though? Wouldn't that somehow mitigate the fact that she's a Valyrian whelp with dragons? I mean, I'm enjoying these theories, but I'm not thoroughly convinced that the FM would plot to kill Dany and/or her dragons just yet (yes, even with the above quote).

They may figure that a Valyrian with dragons is still a Valyrian with dragons. Why take the risk? Or it could have nothing to do with their personal motivations at all, and a third party hired them.

But ...

1. A Faceless Man infiltrated the Citadel, where we know a book about dragons is held. The maesters apparently had at least something to do with the Targ dragons dying. We know that the book is locked up and Jaqen got a key from Pate, who attended the Archmaester. It wasn't enough for Jaqen to impersonate Pate; he also needed the key.

2. The Faceless Men have historically been against Valyrians with dragons.

3. It's a good theory -- whoever came up with it first -- that Euron paid with his dragon egg.

Whatever the motive, there are decent hints that the Faceless Men are attempting to hatch/raise their own dragon, working to kill or weaken Dany's dragons or both.

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Oh, redriver, don't be a Darkstar picking on girls.

Challenge her and call her a thief or allow that she thought of that herself and that is why she said "yes, and" to you.

;)

It's not the end of the world,but perhaps there was a misunderstanding.

Perhaps the OP might be adjusted?

Who says she's a little girl anyway?Probably a 25 stone Hell's Angel :eek:

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He's the only one-eyed guy we know who is nicknamed Crow's Eye. Is it really a stretch to conclude that a one-eyed drowned crow who hired a Faceless Man to kill Balon refers to a one-eyed guy nicknamed Crow's Eye who worships the Drowned God and has a reason to want Balon dead?

no its not a stretch, its kinda obvious. which is why i dont belive it, GRRM always throws us off. Also Victarion and Asha would then be dead.

If you need to know that the Faceless Men have good reasons to want to take out dragons and/or Valyrians, I suggest you reread Arya's Braavos chapters.

*sigh* do i have to? They were kinda boring... Ok i'll skim thru them 2night

You're right. It's not enough that it looks like a squid, or that krakens in mythology were just giant squid, or that I'm pretty sure they're referred to (snarkily) as squid in the books at least once, or that they have the same number of tentacles as a squid. I'm sure people mistake their eggs for dragon eggs all the time.

lol. we dont know what the eggs look like, and there have been kraken sightings, one talked about during the king's council, and one was at Castle Black, so they do exist

They may figure that a Valyrian with dragons is still a Valyrian with dragons. Why take the risk? Or it could have nothing to do with their personal motivations at all, and a third party hired them.

But ...

1. A Faceless Man infiltrated the Citadel, where we know a book about dragons is held. The maesters apparently had at least something to do with the Targ dragons dying. We know that the book is locked up and Jaqen got a key from Pate, who attended the Archmaester. It wasn't enough for Jaqen to impersonate Pate; he also needed the key.

2. The Faceless Men have historically been against Valyrians with dragons.

3. It's a good theory -- whoever came up with it first -- that Euron paid with his dragon egg.

Whatever the motive, there are decent hints that the Faceless Men are attempting to hatch/raise their own dragon, working to kill or weaken Dany's dragons or both.

that was quite convincing thou... maybe your right, what the hell do i know? ill put it over Rhaenys is a cat, but under Quentin is the tattered prince

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Wouldn't that somehow mitigate the fact that she's a Valyrian whelp with dragons?

It might seem so, but you also have to consider the Braavosi banker at the Wall, with his "We do not jape of dragons". It wasn't a joke about dragons being used to enslave people that put him in such a bad mood. It was the mere mention of dragons, in a positive context (fighting back the cold, being warm, etc as I recall).

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no its not a stretch, its kinda obvious. which is why i dont belive it, GRRM always throws us off. Also Victarion and Asha would then be dead.

If he wanted to be obvious, he'd say, "Euron hired a Faceless Man to kill Balon."

In any case, extra hits mean extra payment, and I imagine Euron could only afford the one, which was the one he really needed. Hiring lesser hitmen might mean a botched job or something that could get back to him, which means messy kinslaying charges. Better to send Victarion on a goose chase and force Asha into exile.

*sigh* do i have to? They were kinda boring... Ok i'll skim thru them 2night

Thank you. :D

we dont know what the eggs look like, and there have been kraken sightings, one talked about during the king's council, and one was at Castle Black, so they do exist

I'm sure they do exist. They're giant squid. This is a squid egg. (Warning: Ick.)

that was quite convincing thou...

I try. :)

It might seem so, but you also have to consider the Braavosi banker at the Wall, with his "We do not jape of dragons". It wasn't a joke about dragons being used to enslave people that put him in such a bad mood. It was the mere mention of dragons, in a positive context (fighting back the cold, being warm, etc as I recall).

Bingo.

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@redriver

Firstly I think there´s a difference between Euron being a FM and paying FM with a dragon egg. But since the link you posted provided me with the quote of the vision:

"I dreamt of a man without a face, waiting on a bridge that swayed and swung. On his shoulder perched a drowned crow with seaweed hanging from his wings."

I have to say that I don´t think the FM have anything to do with killing Balon. I think this is telling us that Euron is a puppet. And I believe he is a puppet of the Red Priests and probably even dead and resurrected. This makes much more sence, since he meddled with all these sorcerers.

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@redriver

Firstly I think there´s a difference between Euron being a FM and paying FM with a dragon egg. But since the link you posted provided me with the quote of the vision:

"I dreamt of a man without a face, waiting on a bridge that swayed and swung. On his shoulder perched a drowned crow with seaweed hanging from his wings."

I have to say that I don´t think the FM have anything to do with killing Balon. I think this is telling us that Euron is a puppet. And I believe he is a puppet of the Red Priests and probably even dead and resurrected. This makes much more sence, since he meddled with all these sorcerers.

Where are you getting "red priests" from "a man without a face" though? Why would the red priests assassinate Balon? What's the motive?

Newborns in the Iron Islands are "drowned" as part of the Drowned God religion. It doesn't have to point to a red priest resurrection.

And I had the opposite impression -- the crow is the one calling the shots and directing the man without a face.

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@Apple Martini

1. The crow being the played I got from the OP of the link redriver send

2. No face reminded me of Quaithe, but as I already said it could also just mean unknown. So it should be Shadowbinders, sorcerers of Asshai or so and not Red Priests but I think they are connected to the big unknown from Asshai.

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If he wanted to be obvious, he'd say, "Euron hired a Faceless Man to kill Balon."

In any case, extra hits mean extra payment, and I imagine Euron could only afford the one, which was the one he really needed. Hiring lesser hitmen might mean a botched job or something that could get back to him, which means messy kinslaying charges. Better to send Victarion on a goose chase and force Asha into exile.

Goose chase? "Take all your ships and this horn and go to this mad hot chick who is queen, she has an army and dragons and she needs ships." Maybe an improbable survival chance, but it is possible, i mean look at him, he is doing it!

Thank you. :D

For you Sweetling

I'm sure they do exist. They're giant squid. This is a squid egg. (Warning: Ick.)

They look like giant squids, thats not the same. We dont know if there eggs will look like overgrown larva
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@Apple Martini

1. The crow being the played I got from the OP of the link redriver send

2. No face reminded me of Quaithe, but as I already said it could also just mean unknown. So it should be Shadowbinders, sorcerers of Asshai or so and not Red Priests but I think they are connected to the big unknown from Asshai.

Completely disagree, but OK. Still not seeing what motive they'd have to bump Balon. And crows/ravens have called the shots before (Mormont's raven).

Goose chase? "Take all your ships and this horn and go to this mad hot chick who is queen, she has an army and dragons and she needs ships." Maybe an improbable survival chance, but it is possible, i mean look at him, he is doing it!

Euron could fully expect him to die doing it. "Euron's gifts are poisonous." ;)

For you Sweetling

Thanks, boo.

They look like giant squids, thats not the same. We dont know if there eggs will look like overgrown larva

No. I still don't think Euron would call one a dragon egg though. Whatever he did or didn't toss over, it was a dragon egg. :D

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It might seem so, but you also have to consider the Braavosi banker at the Wall, with his "We do not jape of dragons". It wasn't a joke about dragons being used to enslave people that put him in such a bad mood. It was the mere mention of dragons, in a positive context (fighting back the cold, being warm, etc as I recall).

I know the Braavosi are very much against dragons, I'm not disputing that. My doubt is about the Faceless Men, specifically, taking the initiative to get rid of the dragons. I think I'm more comfortable with the idea that they were hired to do so, from what we've seen of the FM so far. I really don't know.
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@Apple Martini

1. The crow being the played I got from the OP of the link redriver send

2. No face reminded me of Quaithe, but as I already said it could also just mean unknown. So it should be Shadowbinders, sorcerers of Asshai or so and not Red Priests but I think they are connected to the big unknown from Asshai.

I only put that link up to show I had posted this idea of Euron paying the FM with his dragon egg some days ago.

It's just a theory but far from crackpot.

The FM might want to destroy the egg or experiment on it,as others have said.

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@redriver

Ah, ok the OP got the idea from your post and not from the OP of the link you send.

And yes I got the stuff about the dragonegg. We don´t know if the FM are interested in dragoneggs, we don´t even know if they´re interested in anything except granting the "gift". Even though I suspect them of having a hidden agenda, I don´t believe the official view of this vision of the "Ghost".

On the other hand we know that the "Red lot" is interested in dragons and that Euron meddles with them.

Edit for grammar

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And yes I got the stuff about the dragonegg. We don´t know if the FM are interested in dragoneggs, we don´t even know if they´re interested in anything except granting the "gift". Even though I suspect them of having a hidden agenda, I don´t believe the official view of this vision of the "Ghost".

But it's not official and it won't be until/unless Martin says, "Euron hired a Faceless Man to kill Balon." It's just an educated guess. It's possible that we never know for sure if Euron hired a Faceless Man. The only thing we have is the vision. I think it's far and away the likeliest explanation, but it's still not confirmed and as such it's not official.

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