assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 The deal is that valuable and meaningful aren't the same thing. I'm thinking in terms of Cersei having to give up Joff, not a pile of Lannister gold, to buy a hit on somebody. Well, it would have been Joff and a pile of gold, but Joff would be the sacrifice and the gold the value part. See my point?The point is, even if we don't know the full extent of the price, the dragon egg could be either valuable or meaningful. There's nothing about what we know of the Faceless Men's going rate to discount the possibility that an egg could be part of the equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kozma Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Okay, here is an excerpt from the book, which should help clear up your misunderstandings. You can find this in the last Victarion chapter of ADWD.If Moqorro can be believed, the Targaryens Dragon Riders did not have to blow the horn themselves. Remember, the ancient Valyrians were SLAVERS. Why would they need to do something dangerous? Again, Moqorro says, (bolded for emphasis) "Who blows the hellhorn matters not."From these facts in the book, I can infer that ancient Valyrians had one or more of these horns to bind the dragons to their will. The blood sacrifice of the pawn who they got to blow the horn is enough to get the dragons to listen to them. Perhaps a blood sacrifice is also required to hatch the eggs, as we saw with Mirri Maz Dur. Since I have no other textual evidence of a dragon hatching, this is all I have to go on.Yep, you got me. Have to admit you right I am wrong. The horn is a specialized device with known properties. However, still question remained to whom it belongs to? Is Euron is a rightful owner? Or blood claim is just a figure of speech meaning that it is bind to old Valyrian blood. Probably we will seen that soon. If Euron has a horn and an egg along with instruction how to hatch a dragon it is even more enigmatic why we gave way a crucial part of the weapon of mass distruction, the ultimate tool to conquer Westeros himself. He may proceed with all required sacrifice bind a dragon to himself, get over Westeros with a modest gang of cutthroats he had at the moment and enjoy his life forever after. Instead he traded an egg and something else to get rid of his brother and to take over Ironborns people. Unless he is deeply in national socialistic movement that sounds illogical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 The point is, even if we don't know the full extent of the price, the dragon egg could be either valuable or meaningful. There's nothing about what we know of the Faceless Men's going rate to discount the possibility that an egg could be part of the equation.Exactly. We don't know. It's all supposition. Even to the egg being a part of the deal at all. Or that the FM pitched Balon off the bridge, though we can strongly suspect that's what happened.And did anyone actually see the egg? I don't remember. I have a hard time paying attention to the Ironborn because they are so cartoonish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The GRRumbler Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I've said this like eight times already, but it's possible that Euron gave up something else in addition to the egg. I don't think that we're saying he only gave the egg, just that it's a very, very, very good theory that the egg was part of the payment.You're being silly, i said i knew the egg was the financial part and we still don't know what the sacrifice was, then you go and say the same thin as if it was a different thing, the fact is, we still don't know what the sacrifice was.....Why is it so hard to understand that it's possible that the egg was the sacrifice ?If theres one thing i know for sure is that the egg was the wealth, the money he paid, but in order to hire the fm, you need money and a sacrifice, wich we still don't know what was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redriver Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 You're being silly, i said i knew the egg was the financial part and we still don't know what the sacrifice was, then you go and say the same thin as if it was a different thing, the fact is, we still don't know what the sacrifice was.If theres one thing i know for sure is that the egg was the wealth, the money he paid, but in order to hire the fm, you need money and a sacrifice, wich we still don't know what was.All we know about the cost of hiring the FM is that it is costly.They demand a "sacrifice",but I think you're taking that word too literally.A sacrifice means giving up something important and of value to you.It doesn't mean you have to burn your son in a fire or give your right arm or left leg.If you place great significance on a dragon egg,then giving up that egg is a sacrifice.Can you show me a quote in the books where it says someone has to die in order to hire the FM for a job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackTalon Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 The question is whether a dragon egg is really valuable enough to have a king killed. Wasn't there talk of paying for a ship with crew with a dragon egg at some point? Soi it is expensive and valuable yes, but considering the other riches Euron brought home it was just a small fraction of his wealth, he could certainly have bought several shipx with his loot. Surely the FM would have demanded more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redriver Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 The question is whether a dragon egg is really valuable enough to have a king killed. Wasn't there talk of paying for a ship with crew with a dragon egg at some point? Soi it is expensive and valuable yes, but considering the other riches Euron brought home it was just a small fraction of his wealth, he could certainly have bought several shipx with his loot. Surely the FM would have demanded more.Sigh.No.It is not the intrinsic value of the egg in itself.It's what it means to you.And given the FM's history,what it means to them has got to be factored in.If a billionaire wants to hire the FM, he will probably have to give up three quarters of his wealth.If a peasant wants to hire the FM the cost maybe as little as a goat.It is not the money,it is how IMPORTANT the price/sacrifice is to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The GRRumbler Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 All we know about the cost of hiring the FM is that it is costly.They demand a "sacrifice",but I think you're taking that word too literally.A sacrifice means giving up something important and of value to you.It doesn't mean you have to burn your son in a fire or give your right arm or left leg.If you place great significance on a dragon egg,then giving up that egg is a sacrifice.Can you show me a quote in the books where it says someone has to die in order to hire the FM for a job?No but i think we can use precedence as evidence here, and the fact that the rich man had to give not oly 3/4 of his wealth but also his daughter, seems like a sacrifice to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackTalon Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Sigh.No.It is not the intrinsic value of the egg in itself.It's what it means to you.And given the FM's history,what it means to them has got to be factored in.If a billionaire wants to hire the FM, he will probably have to give up three quarters of his wealth.If a peasant wants to hire the FM the cost maybe as little as a goat.It is not the money,it is how IMPORTANT the price/sacrifice is to you.That logic is flawed.If he had known how he would have hatched the dragon himself and then he could have killed any number if kings without paying a single penny to the FM ... as Aegon the Conqueror has proven.And if he didn´t know how to hatch the egg, it just wouldn´t have been worth enough. It is made pretty clear that before dany hatched the eggs al those dormant eggs are considered just fossils, pretty, yes, rare, yes, but in the end just baubles. I very much doubt that one egg had enough "intrinsicvalue" to Euron that it would have been considered a fitting sacrifice.unless one considers Euron the type who weeps into his pillows for weeks because the egg was the farewell present of his one and only lady love he left in a faraway land ... I think not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Littlefinger's Lash Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 How do you know Euron isn't a faceless man? Either that he's been replaced or that he became one? Also, doesn't the horn belong to Euron via the blood sacrifice of the son who blew the horn at the King's Moot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The GRRumbler Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 How do you know Euron isn't a faceless man? Either that he's been replaced or that he became one? Also, doesn't the horn belong to Euron via the blood sacrifice of the son who blew the horn at the King's Moot?The horn itself does not requires a blood sacrifice, biding a dragon does, it doesn't really matter who blows the horn, but who commanded the blow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Ou Pas Cap Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 How do you know Euron isn't a faceless man? Either that he's been replaced or that he became one? Also, doesn't the horn belong to Euron via the blood sacrifice of the son who blew the horn at the King's Moot?To become a FM, one must lose the former identity. Euron's identity is just too big to lose and even if you think he'd do that, then it would be, well, lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Littlefinger's Lash Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 The horn itself does not requires a blood sacrifice, biding a dragon does, it doesn't really matter who blows the horn, but who commanded the blow.How do you know what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Littlefinger's Lash Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 To become a FM, one must lose the former identity. Euron's identity is just too big to lose and even if you think he'd do that, then it would be, well, lost.Do you? or do you have to be able to convince the other faceless men that you have? Look at Arya's lessons. "You lie. And worse, you lie poorly." Clearly the waif still has her identity. Jaquen tells Arya his father is dead. All evidences points to the fact that the test is whether or not you can convince them you lost your identity, not actually losing. Which for the purposes of practically administering a test is the same from their perspective. And keeping the identity while deceiving them is the more impressive and useful skill for an assassin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The GRRumbler Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 How do you know what?Moqorro tells Victarion in book five, after reading the inscripted runes.For example if that slave had blew the horn for Euron and hatched a Dragon, it would be binded to Euron, not the slave, because Euron cammands the slave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Littlefinger's Lash Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Moqorro tells Victarion in book five, after reading the inscripted runes.For example if that slave had blew the horn for Euron and hatched a Dragon, it would be binded to Euron, not the slave, because Euron cammands the slave.Yes, but Euron commanded Victarion... how long can the chain be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The GRRumbler Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Yes, but Euron commanded Victarion... how long can the chain be?I have no idea about that, but since Victarion is planning to "steal" the queen for him, then Euron can no longer be consider to be his commander, i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Littlefinger's Lash Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I have no idea about that, but since Victarion is planning to "steal" the queen for him, then Euron can no longer be consider to be his commander, i think.So then if the slave is thinking about stealing the dragon for himself then a slave blowing the horn doesn't count either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The GRRumbler Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 So then if the slave is thinking about stealing the dragon for himself then a slave blowing the horn doesn't count either?As i said befor i have no idea, this is not clearly explained, and all we can do is to keep to what is in the books, speculating would not help clearing this issue.And you know what, maybe yes, if a slave is not thinking of obeying his master maybe he could do that, but you cannot compare Victarion and Euron's relationship to a slave with his master. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Littlefinger's Lash Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 As i said befor i have no idea, this is not clearly explained, and all we can do is to keep to what is in the books, speculating would not help clearing this issue.And you know what, maybe yes, if a slave is not thinking of obeying his master maybe he could do that, but you cannot compare Victarion and Euron's relationship to a slave with his master.Yeah if a slave were half way around the world he'd have the good sense to escape. Victarion is to cowed and dimwitted to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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