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One small fact: Joffrey was not evil


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Damn, this is hard. Wait, shall we call him Joffrey the Just when he told that under his rule "treason shall never go unpunished"?

And he was such a dick to Tommen that he ended up being one good boy.

And he couldn't even do that right!

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Here comes the Lannister fanboy with more defense for a character that most fans don't like, but I don't think Joffrey was born evil.

As I see it Joffrey was kind of more made evil due to bad parenting and mentorship. He did certainly not end up as a great guy and he deserved what he got due to his own actions. But I do not think that he was born evil and if his parents had been more stabile he would not have ended up as twisted as he was. He would probably have some less savory character traits or sides, but then agan most people have those.

So I would personally think that Joffrey became evil, if you want to use that term which I normally don't, but I don't think he was born evil. In a way I pity him in a similar manner that I pity Robert or Lysa. I do NOT however think that he didn't end up deserving what he got.

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Imagine Joffrey didn't die and went to visit WF to meet Ramsay...glad it can't happen

Imagine a Joffrey/Ramsay cage match. Damn, I'd buy tickets to that.

Joffrey seemed somewhat unhappy to give up Sansa for Margaery – until he figured out he could have both, I guess.

But the little bastard killed cats. He is irredeemable; my Fluffy and Bootsie concur.

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Here comes the Lannister fanboy with more defense for a character that most fans don't like, but I don't think Joffrey was born evil.

As I see it Joffrey was kind of more made evil due to bad parenting and mentorship. He did certainly not end up as a great guy and he deserved what he got due to his own actions. But I do not think that he was born evil and if his parents had been more stabile he would not have ended up as twisted as he was. He would probably have some less savory character traits or sides, but then agan most people have those.

So I would personally think that Joffrey became evil, if you want to use that term which I normally don't, but I don't think he was born evil. In a way I pity him in a similar manner that I pity Robert or Lysa. I do NOT however think that he didn't end up deserving what he got.

There must be something good in your character, acts, asspirations, not something bad in your circumstances, for you to be considered not evil. And "evil" is used here only because Martin used it in his interview. If we warrant that circumstances are everything and free will means nothing, than nothing means anything.

That said, I actually think that he was not hopless. If he was sent to a camp at Harrenhaal as a nameless peasant boy and made to do hard physical work under the supervision of Weese , I think he might have changed enough. And if he had any friends like Gendry or Hot Pie. I regret that his parents wasted him so.

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I wouldn't say he was eager to please and impress people of KL. "Tell them they have my leave to eat their dead", was it?

He listened to Sansa when she told him to give the woman with dead baby a coin, that counts as point in his favor, I guess.

I didn't explain well enough, I meant specifically during the Battle of the Blackwater, when he rallied the troops and raised the spirits of the citizenry with his visage.

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He seemed like a decent enough older brother. i don't recall him abusing tommen or myrcella at all?

Making fun of Tommen jousting, cat and kittens and there must have been other things he did around Tommen, because when talking to Jaime Tommen said something like: "I used to go away in my head when Jofrey... he..." And here someone iterrupted them. So maybe Joffrey tortured some more kittens.

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Here comes the Lannister fanboy with more defense for a character that most fans don't like, but I don't think Joffrey was born evil.

As I see it Joffrey was kind of more made evil due to bad parenting and mentorship. He did certainly not end up as a great guy and he deserved what he got due to his own actions. But I do not think that he was born evil and if his parents had been more stabile he would not have ended up as twisted as he was. He would probably have some less savory character traits or sides, but then agan most people have those.

So I would personally think that Joffrey became evil, if you want to use that term which I normally don't, but I don't think he was born evil. In a way I pity him in a similar manner that I pity Robert or Lysa. I do NOT however think that he didn't end up deserving what he got.

I agree with this, though ordering the brutal whipping of Sansa was extreme and he is somewhat of a sociopath

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There IS a theory out there that he raped Tommen, though.

http://asoiaf.wester...rey-and-tommen/

DA FUCK

I think what Martin meant is that no one is inherently evil : they either have some reasons in their past (Joff's ubringing), or some mental issues (Ramsay Bolton), or they truly believe they're doing what needs to be done (Melisandre).

In any case, he didn't bother to write any redeeming qualities for Joffrey, or so it seems.

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