Glass Candles

[Maester Tormund]

Also NotSoSilentSister I like some of the theories put forth in your signature!

[Stoned Dragon]

The best way to to understand whether or not Quaithe is giving Dany her best advice given her limited view is to try and pinpoint WHEN she got her information that Tyrion, Moquorro, etc... were heading her direction. If she is using glass candles to look for people heading towards Dany, then if she is telling the truth we - as a reader - should be able to deduce when she was watching and what she may have seen that made her warn Dany.

I dont have my books with me, but surely we can look for 1) when is the earliest moment when everyone she mentioned was on their way to Dany and 2) what were they doing, thinking, or plotting at those moments. We all know motives, plans, and ideas changed - but if we find the moment where Quaithe was looking last, then once we have that information we'd just have to see if their motives at those moment are actually about hurting or helping Dany - or a mix.

[Blindsie]

Quaithe just told her not to trust them. Tyrion gives Aegon the exact same advice. Everyone else has their own motives, their schemes of revenge. You might need their help, but it important to remain wary.

The other parts of her advice are interesting.

"Beware the perfumed seneschal" - My big bets this is Illyrio. For the life of me I can't quite get a handle of what his true desires are. If Dany fulfills the Tattered Prince's wish for Pentos? What will Illyrio do? So far he just used Dany as a pawn in his game. Little did he know she would thrive with the Dothraki. Once she got dragons, suddenly she has protection. Sent by Illyrio. He's only in it power. He seems different to Varys in that way.

"To go forward you must go back."

Interestingly we find Dany at the end of DwD back in the Dorthraki Sea, meeting Khal Jhaqo and his khalesar. My big guess is that she will seek vengence for Eroeh, and take the khalesar for herself.

[the Scorpion Knight]

The sun's son is without a doubt Quentyn Martell. He's the son of the Prince of Dorne, the sigil of Dorne is a sun, so he is literally the "sun's" son.

the sun's son also fits Aegon (elia martell was his mother)

[I do not sew]

The Alchemist is Jaqen H'Ghar, what he is doing there is a completely different question

I thought Tyrion pretty much cleared that up. He's after the only copy of that duper-awesome-end-all dragon book. That seems to be his priority anyway.

[The Mother of The Others]

Sometimes I ask who the perfumed seneschal is.

Other times I remember that it was the name of one of the ships. (It had two names, and the one translated into this phrase). (Probably 'twas the ship that breaks up on Moqorro and leaves him swimming in the ocean???)

On still other occasions, I assume the perfumed seneschal is Hizdar. (Who seems both trustable and non-trustable at the same time).

Illyrio is also a nice candidate.

[Maester Tormund]

the sun's son also fits Aegon (elia martell was his mother)

Didn't even think of that one

Sometimes I ask who the perfumed seneschal is.

Other times I remember that it was the name of one of the ships. (It had two names, and the one translated into this phrase). (Probably 'twas the ship that breaks up on Moqorro and leaves him swimming in the ocean???)

On still other occasions, I assume the perfumed seneschal is Hizdar. (Who seems both trustable and non-trustable at the same time).

Illyrio is also a nice candidate.

Yeah I thought it could be something with the "Stinky Steward" as Tyrion calls it. Cargo, the crew, the passengers, I dunno what it could be. Oh and I think you meant Reznak not Hizdahr. Reznack is the seneschal and Hizdahr is the fighting pit owner that Dany marries.

[NotSoSilentSister]

I really like that idea, the only problem I could see is eye color. Is Quaithe's eye color ever stated? I know Shiera Seastar has two different color eyes but I can't remember what color they are.

Well she's wearing a mask, so Shiera is defenitely still in the running!

I can't take credit for the idea - it has been mentionnend a couple of times in the forum by others and I'm sure it was already dilligently debunkend on multiple occassions, but I still kinda like it.

[Belisarius09]

So we are accepting that the glass candles can be used to implant visions, ie Quaithe appearing in Dany's dreams.

Looking back, what if the Mad King wasn't mad, he was just being manipulated by someone wiedling a glass candle? If so, who was implanting visions in his mind and to what purpose? Something to think about.

[I do not sew]

I've thought about this as well, but given the history of the targs it just seems natural.

[NotSoSilentSister]

It's also interesting to look at the people Quaithe doesn't warn Dany about: no word lost about Xaro and Brown Ben Plumm, who did after all end up turning on Dany and I have a hunch that whoever was responsible for the assassination attempt wasn't mentionned by Quaithe either.

So that would be another point in favor of the argument that Quaithe might either have malevolent intentions or be not all that well-informed.

Another theory might be that Dany actually went quite a bit off script when she decided to stay in Meereen to try to sort out the mess she made by freeing the slaves. So that might be another reason why Quaithe can't help her there.

Another person apparently not mentionned by Quaithe is Marwyn the Maege (unless he turns out to be the perfumed seneschall - there are seneschals at the Citadel, but they seem to be on the opposing side in inter-citadel-politics). If Quaithe has ties to any of the characters we've encountered so far, it's probably him. Marywn has done a semester abroad in Asshai after all.

[Ser Leftwich]

All the threats that Quaithe doesn't see also shows her fallibility. Granted she also might be not reporting them to Dany.

As Marwyn says, "Prophecy will bite your prick off every time.”

As for causing Aeyrs II madness with the candles, who would gain from that? Rhaegar. If there is anything to the Maester Conspiracy, they are a possibility. The history of madness in Targaryen's and the Defiance at Duskendale kidnapping that he suffered are sufficient to explain his paranoia, to me at least.

Shiera Seastar seems like a stretch to me. How many ~125 year old characters are going to be still alive and be vital plot elements?

[RumHam]

Looking back, what if the Mad King wasn't mad, he was just being manipulated by someone wiedling a glass candle? If so, who was implanting visions in his mind and to what purpose? Something to think about.

But the candles weren't burning back then.

[KronetHjort]

Only after battles.

not to send messages but to eat the dead

[King Tam Stark]

Now candles.

Marwyn says: The sorcerers of the Freehold could see across mountains, seas, and deserts with one of these glass candles. They could enter a man’s dreams and give him visions, and speak to one another half a world apart, seated before their candles.

Side note: the Reader (Asha's uncle) tells her in the same book that Marwyn claims to have found three pages of Signs and Portents, visions written down by the maiden daughter of Aenar Targaryen before the Doom came to Valyria.

Marwyn proceeds to ask Sam: Do you think that might be useful, Slayer?

Sam: We would have no more need of ravens.

Marwyn: Only after battles. The archmaester peeled a sourleaf off a bale, shoved it in his mouth, and began to chew it.

I do not fully understand his answer "Only after the battles", but he seems more interested not in the direct communication, but in those visions maybe?

maybe they would have no more need of crows rather than ravens as the vision could be telling them the threat from the others has been met in battle and eliminated and therefore no need for the wall to be manned by crows

[MotherMerciless]

The Citadel has four candles. Three are black, one is green.

A black and a green candle have been seen lit so far.

Why would the Citadel need four? Certainly they are not like telephones,as in, they cannot come through to whomever the user wishes to contact. If it were so, there would be no need for multiple candles, one would suffice.

Their colours might mean something too. They are not decorative items, so the colours might be an indicator for what they can do. If they are indeed made out of Dragonglass, then the green one must be special.

[Determined to Fail]

Maester Turmond,

Interesting breakdown. Much of your hypothesis fit given evidence from books. What are your thoughts about the candles being melted down and forged into the light bringer sword?

King Tam Stark,

Marwyn means the mages are in a way obsolete. They pretend/bluff/to blaithe to know more than they actually do. Marwyn, Asha's iron borne uncle who likes to read a lot, Meliksandre, Quaithe, and the last green sayer. Those characters are similar in that they are all looking towards events unfolding farther down the road. Most other characters merely operate at present or near future. Marwyn's character possesses some aspects of a latter Roman Stoic sense of the Logos but he is also kind of Machiavellian in thinking the ends justifies the means and tends to look down on others.. Though he believes in doing his homework and knowledge is power. Thus, he is very interested in those three pages and stepping his game up compared to everyone else. (Based off of his character's motivation and where he has located himself, I would wager Marwyn hired the FM to get him the key to the vault,...on the sly access to those pages he is so interested in)

Got the candles, don't need ravens for messages. Yet after battles there are a lot of dead people. So nature provides ravens and we need such creatures to eat the corpses. That's why the author pairs the character dialog response with the character action of peeling and chewing.

Marwyn proceeds to ask Sam: Do you think that might be useful, Slayer?
Sam: We would have no more need of ravens.

Marwyn: Only after battles. The archmaester peeled a sourleaf off a bale, shoved it in his mouth, and began to chew it.

[King of the Bastards]

The Citadel has four candles. Three are black, one is green.

A black and a green candle have been seen lit so far.

Why would the Citadel need four? Certainly they are not like telephones,as in, they cannot come through to whomever the user wishes to contact. If it were so, there would be no need for multiple candles, one would suffice.

Their colours might mean something too. They are not decorative items, so the colours might be an indicator for what they can do. If they are indeed made out of Dragonglass, then the green one must be special.

Can you tell me, where it says that the candles are black and green? I don't remember and after reading all the speculations about who is a real Targ and who not, the greens and the blacks, etc. I just had the idea that they could stand for the Targs. The ones that are lit would be the ones striving for power - Dany and fAegon, the black candles standing for the real Targs and the green one for the pretender. The two that are not lit yet could stand for two secret Targs that yet have to learn that they are (Jon and someone else (not a theory I support, but that's popular around the forum would be Tyrion)).

[joluoto2]

Urrathon Nightwalker sounds like an emo to me. So he's probably Dorkstar's father or something.

[RumHam]

Can you tell me, where it says that the candles are black and green?

Pate knew about the glass candles, though he had never seen one burn. They were the worst-kept secret of the Citadel. It was said that they had been brought to Oldtown from Valyria a thousand years before the Doom. He had heard there were four; one was green and three were black, and all were tall and twisted.