WinterfellWoman Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 This may contain spoilers for those who haven't read at least to chapter 62 of SoS!In chapter 62, when Jamie is finally reunited with Cersei, he alludes to having done something terrible to his brother Tyrion: "I loved Tyrion. I was good to him. Well, but for that one time...but the Imp did not know the truth of that. Or did he?"Is he talking about Tyrion's first marriage, or is there something else? It seems to me it would be obvious that Tyrion knew about Jamie's involvement in his marriage to the whore, so I think something else has to be going on here. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolorous Eddie Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Without spoiling it for you, let's just say there's more to Tyrion's marriage than what you know so far. You'll just have to wait and see :cool4: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterfellWoman Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 Good to know, I'll keep reading. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtopher Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Yep, you´ll get your answer at the end of the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterfellWoman Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 I finally got there. I have to admit, I defintely was not expecting that. I also find it incredibly sad that one little (ok, it was kind of big) lie is enough to turn Tyrion against his brother. I absolutely hate the Lannisters, but I was kind of growing fond of Jamie in this book. Now that he's finally become a likeable character everything is being taken away from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DivPArADox Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 ...he's finally become a likeable character everything is being taken away from him.You aren't used to GRRM doing that to you by the end of the third book? I admire your complete lack of cynicism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterfellWoman Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 I know, I should be used to it. I have a tendenceny to be an optimist, even when everything seems to point in the opposite direction. It's one of the reasons this series keeps crushing me over and over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtopher Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I also find it incredibly sad that one little (ok, it was kind of big) lie is enough to turn Tyrion against his brother.little lie? its the thing that Tyrion himself says marked his whole life. The fact that this supposed "hired whore" actually married him because she loved him just changes everything for him and how he sees life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterfellWoman Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 I guess what I meant is Jamie did plenty of things to earn his love and prove himself has a good brother. He did one thing and all of a sudden that changes. And really, he didn't even lie to Tyrion, he just kept silent when his dad lied. It's arguably just as bad, but when you factor in the sheer fact that Jamie is the only person in the family who has ever loved him or cared for him, I don't think it's enough of a reason to turn his back on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtopher Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Ok, he could forgive him, yes, but 5 seconds after he just told him!??! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterfellWoman Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 Ok, he could forgive him, yes, but 5 seconds after he just told him!??!I didn't expect him to forgive him instantly. I guess we'll see where GRRM goes with this, but it seemed to me that Tyrion was never going to forgive Jamie. The way it was portrayed had a sense of finality to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtopher Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Only death is final, as my buddy Tyrion once said:"Death is so terribly final, while life is full of possibilities." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hookd Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I finally got there. I have to admit, I defintely was not expecting that. I also find it incredibly sad that one little (ok, it was kind of big) lie is enough to turn Tyrion against his brother. I absolutely hate the Lannisters, but I was kind of growing fond of Jamie in this book. Now that he's finally become a likeable character everything is being taken away from him.Tyrion is the only likable Lannister.. and seemingly one of the only characters with honor. I wonder if his whopper of a lie is going to come back and haunt him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterfellWoman Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 Tyrion is the only likable Lannister.. and seemingly one of the only characters with honor. I'm going to completely disagree with you about the whole honor thing there. How is it honorable to sleep with whores or lure an army into a trap then douse them in wildfire? Yes, Tyrion does have a certain kindness too him, and when you compare him to his family members he is definitely a "good" guy, but that is completely different than honor. Eddard Stark had honor. Robb Stark had honor. Davos has honor. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Tyrion as a character, he's one of my favorites, but he does not have honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hookd Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I'm going to completely disagree with you about the whole honor thing there. How is it honorable to sleep with whores or lure an army into a trap then douse them in wildfire? Yes, Tyrion does have a certain kindness too him, and when you compare him to his family members he is definitely a "good" guy, but that is completely different than honor. Eddard Stark had honor. Robb Stark had honor. Davos has honor. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Tyrion as a character, he's one of my favorites, but he does not have honor.For his family, he does. :cool4: But I get what you are saying. But even all your examples.. they all have flaws. Eddard Stark broke his marriage vows months after wedding Catelyn. Robb made a pact with the Lord of the Twins and broke it months later. Davos is a smuggler (if not a thief)... by definition, not an honorable trade. While, what Tryion did by setting fire to Lord Stannis ships was very gruesome.. I do think that setting fire to ships is part of that type of warfare. As to the sleeping with whores, not that I agree with it either.. but he's so ugly that I got the impression that that is all that he could hope to achieve. After all, since Tywin told Tryion who he would marry anyway (and Cersei for that matter).. why didn't Tywin marry him off either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterfellWoman Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 For his family, he does. :cool4: But I get what you are saying.But even all your examples.. they all have flaws. Eddard Stark broke his marriage vows months after wedding Catelyn. Robb made a pact with the Lord of the Twins and broke it months later. Davos is a smuggler (if not a thief)... by definition, not an honorable trade.While, what Tryion did by setting fire to Lord Stannis ships was very gruesome.. I do think that setting fire to ships is part of that type of warfare. As to the sleeping with whores, not that I agree with it either.. but he's so ugly that I got the impression that that is all that he could hope to achieve. After all, since Tywin told Tryion who he would marry anyway (and Cersei for that matter).. why didn't Tywin marry him off either?Well, there's a theory out there that suggests Eddard may not have broken his vows to Catelyn. Robb did make a mistake, and that was less than honorable, but in both his case and Eddards it was ONE mistake. One mistake does not necessarily ruin your honor. And Davos WAS a smuggler. He transformed himself when he pledged honor to King Stannis. So if you tie past and present together, you're right, Davos is not an honorable person. When I say he is honorable though I am referring to the "new" Davos.As for your last question, I'm not quite sure what you're asking. Care to expound on that a bit further? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SummerGhostofNymeria Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I'm going to completely disagree with you about the whole honor thing there. How is it honorable to sleep with whores or lure an army into a trap then douse them in wildfire? Yes, Tyrion does have a certain kindness too him, and when you compare him to his family members he is definitely a "good" guy, but that is completely different than honor. Eddard Stark had honor. Robb Stark had honor. Davos has honor. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Tyrion as a character, he's one of my favorites, but he does not have honor.I'm going to go ahead and agree with this point, but only to an extent. Tyrion has honor in some things, (of which he proves in some instances with Sansa) but he isn't known for his honor. Tyrion does what NEEDS to be done. He usually makes the more intelligent decisions, whereas in some cases Ned and Robb may have made the HONORABLE choice, but it wasn't always the RIGHT choice.Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Ned, Robb, and Tyrion. The point is that the honorable choice is not always the right choice, and that there IS a such thing as making a right choice without it necessarily being the most honorable... if that makes any sense at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterfellWoman Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 I'm going to go ahead and agree with this point, but only to an extent. Tyrion has honor in some things, (of which he proves in some instances with Sansa) but he isn't known for his honor. Tyrion does what NEEDS to be done. He usually makes the more intelligent decisions, whereas in some cases Ned and Robb may have made the HONORABLE choice, but it wasn't always the RIGHT choice.Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Ned, Robb, and Tyrion. The point is that the honorable choice is not always the right choice, and that there IS a such thing as making a right choice without it necessarily being the most honorable... if that makes any sense at all.It does make sense, and I completely agree with you, the must honorable choice isn't necessarily the right choice. As I said before, I really like Tyrion as a character. He's definitely at the top of my list of favorites. I just don't think he's "honorable" is all. Nice, yes. Honorable, no. I think that his unhonorableness (not a word, I know) is what allows him to be such a great character and do so much more than Ned and Robb. It's also definitely kept him alive so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hookd Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 It does make sense, and I completely agree with you, the must honorable choice isn't necessarily the right choice. As I said before, I really like Tyrion as a character. He's definitely at the top of my list of favorites. I just don't think he's "honorable" is all. Nice, yes. Honorable, no. I think that his unhonorableness (not a word, I know) is what allows him to be such a great character and do so much more than Ned and Robb. It's also definitely kept him alive so far.The thing is that I really thought that Rob would have last longer and become more central. At this point, as I told my friend who has already read all 5 books, that I am expecting Dany and Bran to married, ride dragons and conquer the Westeroes world.Oh.. and FWIW, I found Dontos creppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SummerGhostofNymeria Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 It does make sense, and I completely agree with you, the must honorable choice isn't necessarily the right choice. As I said before, I really like Tyrion as a character. He's definitely at the top of my list of favorites. I just don't think he's "honorable" is all. Nice, yes. Honorable, no. I think that his unhonorableness (not a word, I know) is what allows him to be such a great character and do so much more than Ned and Robb. It's also definitely kept him alive so far. No, and honestly, I agree that's what makes Tyrion so great. However, though Tyrion is not HONORABLE (I.E. - his excessive sexual relations with random women at brothels, etc, etc) he CAN do honorable things though. Those few honorable things are usually the nicer things he does. All the same, Tyrion is one of my favorite characters, by far. He has a lot of depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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