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Why did Varys say anything at all to Kevan?


MGorgon

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what does it matter if its the real aegon as long as the realm (people) benefit, its clear that the noble born of westeros abuse and use the small folk. he says he works for the realm, the realm is the small folk not the lords or king. hes a mummer when he was speaking to kevin he could just simply be implying in his view that change was coming because aegon will balance the realm again. hes probably just using aegon's name and birthright to do this, if this is varys big plan though, im disappointed and wonder whats in it for him maybe he does work for the realm as he says who knows until the end. as varys says though.

Power resides only where men believe it resides. [...] A shadow on the wall, yet shadows can kill. And ofttimes a very small man can cast a very large shadow.”

Just a few things.

1. Varys' description of Aegon as a noble, duty-bound prince is in sharp contrast to Tyrion's experience of him, wherein he's something of a petulant, entitled brat. Either Varys doesn't know what he's created or he's blind to it.

2. Varys killing Kevan — a decent, competent man working hard to stabilize the government — for no other reason than to turn the Lannisters and Tyrells against each other should show that Varys does not really care about the realm. He wanted to postpone the Stark-Lannister war because it would have been out of his control and conflicted with his plan for fake!Aegon, not because he really cared about the realm. Look at what he does, not what he says.

3. A popular theory is that Varys is a Blackfyre and/or a Blackfyre loyalist, and that Aegon himself is a Blackfyre. There's Varys' motive.

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I think Varys thought Kevan was a good man more or less and was remorseful for having to kill him, but it had to be done. He explained all that too him it seemed in hope that Kevan would at least understand why he was being killed, it was the only consulation Varys could offer under the circumstances.

yep, he probably respected him alot more because he didnt do ruthless things for his self interest and gain like the rest of the kings/queens and lords he works with

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A popular theory is that Varys is a Blackfyre and/or a Blackfyre loyalist, and that Aegon himself is a Blackfyre. There's Varys' motive.

i read that theory but still... ultimately its if dany accepts a blackfyre, i mean this mummers dragon could be a hint that he is a blackfyre and it doesnt matter or it could be a hinting dany its a enemy in disguise. if she did accept him and she lived happy ever after what would happen to jon targaryen? :)

people wonder about varys and littlefingers motives, i think its possible varys looks out for the little guy, where as littlefinger is rebelling against the ruling order/system because he feels robbed and cheated due to factors like birth/blood status.

from what varys said about his background he seems like he would never have any connection or motive to help anyone but himself or people who was in his position maybe because he was in that position, the lowest of the low. if it comes out he has a penis for example and he was totally lying about his background, well it makes sense that he could be a blackfyre supporter. hes a mummer after all.

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I think Varys thought Kevan was a good man more or less and was remorseful for having to kill him, but it had to be done.

Sorry to comment on this yet again... but if Varys really felt that way, wouldn't he have killed Kevan as quckly as possible and put him out of his misery? Why leave him in mortal agony, whilst psychologically torturing the poor guy by explaining how you are going to undo his families legacy that he's devoted his life to, and leading him to fear for his beloved family? If Varys was at all remorseful, his actions don't really make much sense.

In fact, imo, his actions here don't really make sense for anyone who's not either a. a weird psychological sadist (a la LF or Cersei); or b. so in love with their own sheer brilliniance that they must explain their plans to everyone, even when it is actually detrimental to their cause. IMO, from what we've seen of him in the past, Varys fits neither of these descriptions. He is not cruel when he can help it (but he is incredibly ruthless); and while he is one of the cleverest men at court, he does not seem to be always vainly delighting in his own brilliance, like LF does, for instance.

So, IMO, Varys actions here remain somewhat inexplicable in my mind.

what does it matter if its the real aegon as long as the realm (people) benefit, its clear that the noble born of westeros abuse and use the small folk. he says he works for the realm, the realm is the small folk not the lords or king. h

Yes, and as Varys himself has noted, it is all to often the helpless little people-- commoners-- who die and suffer in the greatest numbers when those in power play at the game of thrones. As a former slave who's seen a lot of the world, Varys doubtlessly knows far more about such people and their sufferings as does any other POV character we hear from, most of whom, deaspite being outsiders in some way, come from unbelievably privileged backgrounds. Varys sounds rather resentful when he tells Ned that the smallfolk always end up bearing the brunt for the calous, selfish nobles who care nothing for them.

IMO, in addition to personal revenge, it is probably his desire to have a good, caring king-- a man of the people-- sit on the throne of Westeros and improve things for everyone. Varys seems to believe that in suffering what he's suffered, Aegon has become a man of the people, and thus able to understand their sufferings and his subsequent duty to him far better than any entitled noble brat before him. His comment about Aegon knowing kingship is his duty and not his right is significant. He sees the noble born kings as feeling the people must serve them; but he feels a true king must know its his duty to serve the people.

Of course, there is one major issue with this, and herein lies the irony of Varys character. In trying to usurp the careless nobles and put a candidate of his own choice (Blackfyre?) on the throne in order to improve life for the common folk, Varys has become every bit as ruthless and callous towards the common people as those nobles he clearly despises and wishes to replace.

Varys is a targ ;)

I'd wager he's a blackfyre, possibly the last of his line.

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i read that theory but still... ultimately its if dany accepts a blackfyre, i mean this mummers dragon could be a hint that he is a blackfyre and it doesnt matter or it could be a hinting dany its a enemy in disguise. if she did accept him and she lived happy ever after what would happen to jon targaryen? :)

I don't think that Dany will accept Aegon, I think they're going to fight between themselves. And I think Jon's destined for greater things than the Iron Throne, which, the story should show, is an empty token.

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As to why Varys said anything at all can be explained. It is not everyday you go around killing someone. At least Varys never did the deed himself. Imagine it is you. You have been nursing a hatred towards the Lannisters for ruining the realm for their own greed. You have been constantly insulted by them for being a eunuch. You have been forced to work for people who are as cruel and stupid as Cersei and Joffrey. All that anger is pent up in you and you have nursing your grievances for a decade now.

You don't climax immediately, you take it slow at first. Teasing, telling them what it is they want to hear. And then, you let loose.

It's Varys' way of sex I'd imagine. Sorry for sexualizing it, but that's how I read it. Whether he really was telling the truth may have been secondary to what he was feeling at the time.

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Of course, there is one major issue with this, and herein lies the irony of Varys character. In trying to usurp the careless nobles and put a candidate of his own choice (Blackfyre?) on the throne in order to improve life for the common folk, Varys has become every bit as ruthless and callous towards the common people as those nobles he clearly despises and wishes to replace.

Oh and dont forget that while Varys still thinks Aegon VI is the 'perfect king', he has in fact been highly spoiled and indulged by his handlers without his knowledge. Thus his little scheme is about to blow up in his face.

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Oh and dont forget that while Varys still thinks Aegon VI is the 'perfect king', he has in fact been highly spoiled and indulged by his handlers without his knowledge. Thus his little scheme is about to blow up in his face.

Oh, oh, oh ... might Varys end up in the same position with "Aegon" that Cersei was in with Joffrey, having to now control a monster you helped create? I don't think "Aegon" is sadistic like Joffrey, but he's clearly a spoiled little brat. Methinks a karmic slap is in order.

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Oh and dont forget that while Varys still thinks Aegon VI is the 'perfect king', he has in fact been highly spoiled and indulged by his handlers without his knowledge. Thus his little scheme is about to blow up in his face.

hes not that bad!!!!! compare him to joff, what do you want a kid version of stannis? haha!

this aegon real or not, has experienced the other end of the spectrum like dany has hense why they would make good rulers and work to benefit there subjects. look at the mentality of the lannisters for example, i dont think improving the lives of there small folk are large factors into there decision making along with alot of the other great houses and people in power in westeros. they think power is a birth right and they are mini gods in a sense.

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I don't see YG as anywhere near as annoying as some of you seem to. I mean, think of the Man in the Iron Mask...they have to instill in him some sense of being Royal if they want him to succeed in the role, but within that context his life seems fairly workmanlike and pedestrian compared with your average noble, and Griff himself seems to have been a pretty stern task-master.

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this aegon real or not, has experienced the other end of the spectrum like dany has hense why they would make good rulers and work to benefit there subjects. look at the mentality of the lannisters for example, i dont think improving the lives of there small folk are large factors into there decision making along with alot of the other great houses and people in power in westeros. they think power is a birth right and they are mini gods in a sense.

He's apparently spent his life roaming around on a boat with Jon Connington and a "septa" and a few other hangers-on. I don't really see much evidence of hardship or actually living in fear like Varys has claimed. How can he know what it's like to be hunted, as Varys claims, when everyone who would look for him thinks that he's dead? Doesn't make any sense. Again, don't just take for granted what Varys says. I agree that the Lannisters are not in it for the right reasons, but I don't see anything to show that "Aegon" is a saint.

I don't see YG as anywhere near as annoying as some of you seem to. I mean, think of the Man in the Iron Mask...they have to instill in him some sense of being Royal if they want him to succeed in the role, but within that context his life seems fairly workmanlike and pedestrian compared with your average noble, and Griff himself seems to have been a pretty stern task-master.

I don't recall Philippe ever upturning a game table because he lost and ordering someone else to pick up the mess. Not only is he a brat, it seems he's an easily goaded one. Not a good combination.

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Well I think in part it's totally in keeping with Varys' commitment to any story or tale he tells (down to leaving a fell chamber pot when Rugen). Just as Sansa thinks of herself as Alayne to maintain her cover so Varys (if Aegon is not Rhaegar's son) still is sensible to always call Young Griff Aegon. If he comes to believe his own story the lie is that much more convincing.

The part that I find bizarre is the endgame of Varys' plan. Even with 3 dragons the first Aegon could not take all of Westeros. Sure Dorne and Highgarden may declare for Aegon and by taking the Stormlands first they get the South, but how will he subdue the Iron Islands? Let's even assume Tyrek gives him the West and that the West can subdue the Riverlands (big assumption). How on Earth is he going to make either the Vale or the North bend the knee?

More importantly, how is he going to keep the entire kingdom subdued and not rebel?

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He's apparently spent his life roaming around on a boat with Jon Connington and a "septa" and a few other hangers-on. I don't really see much evidence of hardship or actually living in fear like Varys has claimed. How can he know what it's like to be hunted, as Varys claims, when everyone who would look for him thinks that he's dead? Doesn't make any sense. Again, don't just take for granted what Varys says. I agree that the Lannisters are not in it for the right reasons, but I don't see anything to show that "Aegon" is a saint.

saint is a bit extreme but this aegon would be more understanding and less silver spooned, hes basicly lived the life of a hedge knight you cant exactly say thats amazing care free life, sansa also lives in fear even though people have no idea its sansa stark.

tommen is a little fat kid whos going to get played by his advisors and family who will just work his rule into benefiting there houses and ultimately there pockets screwing everyone else along the way, where as aegons rule would most likely be alot more balanced. i mean currently tommen is a glove puppet hes even getting used by cersei the biggest fook up westeros lol! and will remain so until hes dead because lets face it hes not going to rule until he can even come to age.

some people might hate dany but she knows as well what it is to have nothing as she would make a better ruler then most too.

Well I think in part it's totally in keeping with Varys' commitment to any story or tale he tells (down to leaving a fell chamber pot when Rugen). Just as Sansa thinks of herself as Alayne to maintain her cover so Varys (if Aegon is not Rhaegar's son) still is sensible to always call Young Griff Aegon. If he comes to believe his own story the lie is that much more convincing.

The part that I find bizarre is the endgame of Varys' plan. Even with 3 dragons the first Aegon could not take all of Westeros. Sure Dorne and Highgarden may declare for Aegon and by taking the Stormlands first they get the South, but how will he subdue the Iron Islands? Let's even assume Tyrek gives him the West and that the West can subdue the Riverlands (big assumption). How on Earth is he going to make either the Vale or the North bend the knee?

More importantly, how is he going to keep the entire kingdom subdued and not rebel?

the north is going to be invaded by others so its uncontrollable until they are defeated , the iron islands are going to bend the knee to dany, the vale is defended at the blood gate and will be on lock down and there army will most likely attack north or head south as they are a important piece still yet to be placed.

i assume the lannisters will bend the knee to someone after tyrion comes in charge but ye all guess work, it has to fit together some how its all slowly getting there already.

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saint is a bit extreme but this aegon would be more understanding and less silver spooned, hes basicly lived the life of a hedge knight you cant exactly say thats amazing care free life, sansa also lives in fear even though people have no idea its sansa stark.

But everyone knows that Sansa Stark is alive and on the run and wanted for murder. Officially, Aegon is very much dead and no one has any reason to go looking for him, much less to "hunt" him. So it's not really the same thing.

tommen is a little fat kid whos going to get played by his advisors and family who will just work his rule into benefiting there houses and ultimately there pockets screwing everyone else along the way, where as aegons rule would most likely be alot more balanced. i mean currently tommen is a glove puppet hes even getting used by cersei the biggest fook up westeros lol! and will remain so until hes dead because lets face it hes not going to rule until he can even come to age.

And what makes you think that Aegon won't just be Varys and Illyrio's puppet? There is literally a prophetic vision of a mummer controlling and manipulating a dragon.

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I don't recall Philippe ever upturning a game table because he lost and ordering someone else to pick up the mess. Not only is he a brat, it seems he's an easily goaded one. Not a good combination.

Not a great moment, agreed. Nor was freezing in the face of the greyscale boarder.

But I didn't see either incident as all that typical, especially in consideration of the extraordinary pressure he's under to be perfect/win at his age,,,,especially for something that must seem so abstract.

And Philippe did have bouts of frustration and, worse, wanting to quit.

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But everyone knows that Sansa Stark is alive and on the run and wanted for murder. Officially, Aegon is very much dead and no one has any reason to go looking for him, much less to "hunt" him. So it's not really the same thing.

And what makes you think that Aegon won't just be Varys and Illyrio's puppet? There is literally a prophetic vision of a mummer controlling and manipulating a dragon.

everyone who is hiding or waiting around to place there part is scared of being discovered/killed even this aegon even if they arent in full view for everyone to see.

its possible they could rule through aegon or abuse the power he could come to have, but illyrio is rich enough and varys, i mean varys could of climbed to a sit of power some how like littlefinger has but whats the point? no one will respect him anyway and whats he going to do with power? i personally think if they are going to help plant someone on a throne they do it for what they see as the right choice for westeros.

the controlling part as you put it is more likely to do with the fact that they are manipulating people/planting him/supporting him, i highly doubt they are going to rule through him or whatever and they cant exactly force him can they with anything he could just have them killed once hes king

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Crackpot: Varys' speech isn't for Kevan, but for the kids there to kill him. Maybe to keep them in line by making them think it's for a good cause? Or possibly to show Illyrio the plan is going forward, in case they are also reporting back to him.

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everyone who is hiding or waiting around to place there part is scared of being discovered/killed even this aegon even if they arent in full view for everyone to see.

But everyone — everyone — believes Aegon to be dead. Even if someone does see him in Essos, he's just another kid. There's nothing connecting him to Aegon Targaryen such that he should live in any real fear for his life.

its possible they could rule through aegon or abuse the power he could come to have, but illyrio is rich enough and varys, i mean varys could of climbed to a sit of power some how like littlefinger has but whats the point? no one will respect him anyway and whats he going to do with power? i personally think if they are going to help plant someone on a throne they do it for what they see as the right choice for westeros.

the controlling part as you put it is more likely to do with the fact that they are manipulating people/planting him/supporting him, i highly doubt they are going to rule through him or whatever and they cant exactly force him can they with anything he could just have them killed once hes king

That's ... kind of naive that you think their intentions are that good and that Aegon can't be that easily managed, but OK.

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But everyone — everyone — believes Aegon to be dead. Even if someone does see him in Essos, he's just another kid. There's nothing connecting him to Aegon Targaryen such that he should live in any real fear for his life.

That's ... kind of naive that you think their intentions are that good and that Aegon can't be that easily managed, but OK.

they could blackmail him sure but they would lose everything and probably be killed, varys runs like a rat or backs down at the first sign hes threatened, so if he didnt play ball and varys has to run for his life, hes gained nothing and he is nothing and i cant see a extremely fat rich man whos used to luxury going on the run because he would get insta-killed, look at how he traveled when he took tyrion to aegon.

tyrion figured him out in a sort amount of time and they said nothing to him at all (isnt there a part in the books where he says others could of figured it out too?), there could always be someone who knows something they shouldnt and give that information to his enemy, its naive thinking like hes perfectly safe from all harm when most of his family was wiped out and the survivors hunted. the books are full of betrayal and ruthlessness.

other then blackmail how are they going to "manage" him in anyway for there own purposes, i mean what would they even do if he was a puppet king?

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