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brashcandy

From Pawn to Player? Rereading Sansa V

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No, I don´t remember cause I missed those chapters, sorry. And it has been impossible right now to reread them (or read all that have you all write). I will try, when I have time. Promise.

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Sansa is stupid to people like Cersei and the Queen of Thorns because she has shown herself to be such a poor player of the Game of Thrones. Cersei I am sure thinks about how she undermined Ned, because Ned was "honourable" and that was a weakness to be exploited, and Sansa's weakness on the honour front was so glaring she was easy to manipulate and undercut. Sansa was loyal to the throne, expecting honour in exchange for that loyalty, whereas the Lannisters play the game with a different set of rules.

you know this is off topic but...

the Lannister sub-motto is "a Lannister always pays his debts' now, not that paying one's debts isn't fine, but it does speak of a certain mercenary attitude: the Lannister's pay people for the good turns that are done to them, Tyrion pays Bronn, Jaime gives Brienne a sword (that wasn't really his), Tywin pays Gregor...

In contrast Eddard and co don't really pay people (the Stark's aren't ridiculously wealthy and Eddard expects Janos Slynt to help him out) but they do treat the people around them well and do deliver law and order (the exemption being Ramsay Bolton's mother, who the Starks did not know about) in the most personal way possible.

Needless to say Tywin, by rewarding Gregor for his activities fails to deliver law and order to his own smallfolk, since Gregor rapes and murders his own crofters.

It can therefore be said that Tywin fails the most basic test of government, since the role of government is not to distribute wealth, but deliver law and order and thus gain the love of all law abiding people (ie all none Roose Boltons, Gregor Cleganes, Janos Slynts etc).

As ADWD demonstrates, Eddard passed this test with flying colours, since his bannermen love him enough that they are willing to do anything for "Ned's Little Girl".

Now people say that Tywin brought great wealth to the realm in his time as Aerys's hand, and that the Westerlands are wealthy so this must speak well of him. Needless to say Tywin's personal wealth comes through the gold mines that he owns, which is an extractive, finite industry, it is no more proof of Tywin's brilliance than the oil wealth of Saudi Arabia is proof of Saudi brilliance. It is also worth noting that in the sole rebellion during Tywin's time as Aerys's hand, Tywin actually botched...

On the other hand the law and order* that characterised Stark rule in the North is far more significant in developing infinite wealth, because moneylenders, merchants, need a government that delivers law and order and the rule of law far more than they need a government that gives out money to serial killers who have helped them.

* I would say that the whole principle of "the man who passes the sentence must swing the sword" thing probably inhibits rule of law, since if the man who passes the sentence feels squeamish on that particular day he is less likely to pass the death sentence on someone who really deserves it.

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All I see in Sansa V is Sansa turning from a Lannister pawn into a Petyr Baelish pawn. Instead of Tywin deciding who she will wed, it will be Petyr. I don't see her running off on her own pretty much ever. If Sansa wants to be a player in the game she needs to become an information broker like Varys or Littlefinger or Lady Olena. That hasn't happened yet.

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As I've said before, Littlefinger was a pawn, not a player, at the age of 13, which is the age Sansa was the last time we saw her. Very few of the powerful characters had much agency at a young age (when Daenerys was 13, she could command, but all her power came from Drogo). I think Sansa can eventually become a player in the Game; but she needs to learn more and grow up more, not to mention be cleared of the charge of kingslaying. She has changed a lot from the very naive and sheltered child who behaved foolishly in AGOT; she has honed her observational skills and increased her self-control to an unusual degree considering her age.

Besides, I just don't see GRRM bothering to have Sansa become Littlefinger's protegee if she's just going to continue being a damsel-in-distress and Littlefinger's pawn for the next ten years...

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As I've said before, Littlefinger was a pawn, not a player, at the age of 13, which is the age Sansa was the last time we saw her. Very few of the powerful characters had much agency at a young age (when Daenerys was 13, she could command, but all her power came from Drogo). I think Sansa can eventually become a player in the Game; but she needs to learn more and grow up more, not to mention be cleared of the charge of kingslaying. She has changed a lot from the very naive and sheltered child who behaved foolishly in AGOT; she has honed her observational skills and increased her self-control to an unusual degree considering her age.

Besides, I just don't see GRRM bothering to have Sansa become Littlefinger's protegee if she's just going to continue being a damsel-in-distress and Littlefinger's pawn for the next ten years...

Indeed, if Sansa was going to continue on being a damsel in distress, then why not have Ser Dontos turn out to be genuine and then have her meet up with Sandor for a happy ending. Or if her role was to accept and suffer then she could have stayed with Tyrion and continued on being miserable.

The fact that it is Littlefinger who rescues her means that to me, her role as pawn is over, and so begins her birth as a player (under his tutelage) and one of her first acts will be to eliminate Littlefinger.

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Indeed, if Sansa was going to continue on being a damsel in distress, then why not have Ser Dontos turn out to be genuine and then have her meet up with Sandor for a happy ending. Or if her role was to accept and suffer then she could have stayed with Tyrion and continued on being miserable.

The fact that it is Littlefinger who rescues her means that to me, her role as pawn is over, and so begins her birth as a player (under his tutelage) and one of her first acts will be to eliminate Littlefinger.

Yes. In fact, there is an upcoming chapter in AFFC which I believe symbolizes perfectly this very transformation. Can't wait till we get to it to discuss it!

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* I would say that the whole principle of "the man who passes the sentence must swing the sword" thing probably inhibits rule of law, since if the man who passes the sentence feels squeamish on that particular day he is less likely to pass the death sentence on someone who really deserves it.

I don't know about this part. If Ned had been sqeamish then maybe, but he's not and always carries it out. Every one respects Ned for being the one to do it and not send along a henchman like Iliyn Payne to carry out such a thing. It's similar too to Ned telling his people that they should be able to look a condemned man in the eye. If people respect their lord, more so than fear him, that goes a long way towards creating law and order in their realm because like you said it instills loyalty and trust rather than the opposite approach which creates fear and mistrust.

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All I see in Sansa V is Sansa turning from a Lannister pawn into a Petyr Baelish pawn. Instead of Tywin deciding who she will wed, it will be Petyr. I don't see her running off on her own pretty much ever. If Sansa wants to be a player in the game she needs to become an information broker like Varys or Littlefinger or Lady Olena. That hasn't happened yet.

Stay en the reread with us and you will see how she is beginning to learn (then we will see in the next 2 books that will be written). We see how she is learning, how she is changing from her first chapter to the last one.

It will be fun to listening to your ideas.

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Indeed, if Sansa was going to continue on being a damsel in distress, then why not have Ser Dontos turn out to be genuine and then have her meet up with Sandor for a happy ending. Or if her role was to accept and suffer then she could have stayed with Tyrion and continued on being miserable.

The fact that it is Littlefinger who rescues her means that to me, her role as pawn is over, and so begins her birth as a player (under his tutelage) and one of her first acts will be to eliminate Littlefinger.

Or one of the last one. Anyway when she eliminates LF (I believe she won´t kill him personally, but I can be totally wrong) is when we will see her completely transformation in a player.

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Elba that means also that what you are doing something that you believe totally on that, you take all the consequences, the good ones and the bad ones. Also you demostrate to the Northerns if you are brave or not (depending on how you do it and how you behave doing it)

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Sansa just entered school and has many teachers:

  • Mr. Littlefinger: politic and diplomatic skills
  • Mrs. Miranda: sexual education
  • Ms. Mya: self defence (that’s what I hope)

She’s just starting to learn now; I think the real changes are going to start in WOW. She’s going to be 13 or 14 years old, which is a regular age to really start to affirm yourself and learn who you are. On that aspect, she is going to be as we all have been, the only difference: EVERYTHING ELSE!!!

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Great post, Maroucia; though I would add that Sansa's real education began when she left Winterfell.

Sansa has also had other teachers:

Septa Mordane - who taught her a lesson that has helped her tremendously, far more than the Septa probably ever realized it would, that Courtesy is a Lady's Armor. Sansa has used that lesson to forge a powerful set of emotional/political armor for herself. The late Septa also tried to teach Sansa that every man has something physically attractive about his body; a lesson that failed during Sansa's travesty of a wedding night with Tyrion, but which might be working in terms of how Sansa views Sandor.

Queen Cersei - who has sort of been the anti-Catelyn in Sansa's post-Winterfell life; the mother-figure who Sansa initially trusted and then hated; Cersei has introduced Sansa to our girl's role as a young woman (via the conversation about Sansa's 'flowering'/love/children/messy instead of magic) and also a queen. Cersei unwittingly propelled Sansa to take on the role of a queen, however briefly, during the Battle of the Blackwater; and has given Sansa an object lesson in how Not to be a queen, inspiring Sansa to resolve that if she were ever a queen, she would rule with love instead of fear (if I remember correctly).

Lady Margaery Tyrell and her cousins/maids/relatives - who have taught Sansa, sadly, to beware of friendship too quickly given and given with a condition (i.e. Sansa's agreement to marry Willas).

Sandor Clegane and Joffrey Baratheon - who have taught Sansa, more than anyone else, that appearances can be deceiving. Ser Dontos also aided Sandor, along with the Kingsguard, on giving Sansa a course in Ethics, Knighthood and Chivalry; though some of the lessons have been brutal.

Lady Lysa Arryn - who taught Sansa the dangers of obsession.

and a note to mention little Lord Robert Arryn; who is giving Sansa a crash course in Child Care (and after this course ends, or Robin manages to make it through puberty alive, Sansa may never want to be near a child again, but that's beside the point, LOL)...

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Sansa just entered school and has many teachers:

  • Mr. Littlefinger: politic and diplomatic skills
  • Mrs. Miranda: sexual education
  • Ms. Mya: self defence (that’s what I hope)

I also really really hope she'll end up wearing riding leathers a la Mya (especially after the "Do you think he thinks of her in riding leathers or fine silks and velvet" comment re Mya and Lothor Brune). That would be so awesome. *hopes*

I really didn't have anything more to add, sorry. :lol:

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ASOS – SANSA IV

Summary

Sansa wakes from a dream and thinks of how pleasant it was:

That was such a sweet dream, Sansa thought drowsily. She had been back in Winterfell, running through the godswood with her Lady. Her father had been there, and her brothers, all of them warm and safe. If only dreaming could make it so…

She doesn’t dwell on these thoughts for long however, but tells herself she must be brave because “her torments would soon be ended, one way or the other.” She thinks that if Lady were there she would not be afraid, but now she is all alone in the world. She notices that Tyrion is not beside her, but this doesn’t come as a surprise since he is a bad sleeper and she usually wakes to find him in the solar at work or taking a walk.

When she opens up the shutters she sees clouds that have formed into a castle shape:

There were clouds massing in the eastern sky pierced by shafts of sunlight. They look like two huge castles afloat in the morning sky. Sansa could see their walls of tumbled stone, their mighty keeps and barbicans. Wispy banners swirled from atop their towers and reached for the fast fading stars. The sun was coming up behind them, and she watched them go from black to grey to a thousand shades of rose and gold and crimson. Soon the wind mushed them together, and there was only one castle where there had been two.

When her maids enter the room to get her ready for the wedding breakfast, she calls them to the window to see the castle.

“It’s made of gold.” Shae had short dark hair and bold eyes. She did all she was asked of her, but sometimes she gave Sansa the most insolent looks. “A castle all of gold, there’s a sight I’d like to see.”

“A castle, is it?” Brella had to squint. “That tower’s tumbling over, looks like. It’s all ruins, that is.”

Sansa doesn’t want to hear talk of ruined castles so she closes the shutters and inquires about Tyrion’s whereabouts. Shae responds quite boldly that he might have gone to see his father, while Brella suggests that Sansa get into her bath. Sansa is extremely nervous as she contemplates the day ahead, thinking bitterly:

They have made me into a Lannister

Tyrion arrives shortly and proceeds to get dressed. During this time Sansa tries to engage Pod in conversation but the boy is painfully shy and barely manages to make sense in talking about the colours of his house. Although Sansa is tempted to come up with an excuse for not attending the wedding breakfast, she realises that she has to be brave, “like Robb” and attend the festivities.

The wedding breakfast is held in the Queen’s ballroom and it’s a pretty elaborate affair with lots of dishes and drinks, musicians and fools cantering around. After the food is cleared away, Cersei presents Joff with the Lannister bride cloak that he will present Margaery with. Sansa thinks that it looks a little threadbare.

Then it’s time for the gifts. Joffrey receives elaborate wedding gifts and is gracious in thanking everyone until Tyrion presents him with a book called The Lives of the Four Kings. When Joffrey wonders what it is, Sansa notes sarcastically:

A book. Sansa wondered if Joffrey moved those fat wormy lips of his when he read.

Joffrey shoves the book away and proceeds to humiliate Sansa by telling Tyrion that if he had less time for books he would have gotten her pregnant by now. He promises that after he is wed he will come to her bedchamber and show Tyrion how it’s done.

Sansa reddened. She glanced nervously at Tyrion, afraid of what he might say. This could turn as nasty as the bedding had at their own feast. But for once the dwarf filled his mouth with wine instead of words.

After this, Mace Tyrell presents Joffrey with a “golden chalice three feet tall, with two ornate curved handles and seven faces glittering with gemstones”. He explains how each of the seven faces represent the seven kingdoms, and Joffrey announces that they’ll need to scratch the wolf off and put a squid in its place. Tyrion muses that the chalice is so tall that Joff will be falling down drunk with only half a cup, to which Sansa thinks:

Good … Perhaps he’ll break his neck.

The highlight of the gift giving is Tywin’s present of the Valyrian longsword. Joff promptly proceeds to wave it around, and petitions for an appropriate name, choosing “Widow’s Wail”. He then uses the sword to chop the Tyrion’s gift in half. Garlan Tyrell tells him:

“Your Grace … Perhaps you did not know. In all of Westeros there were but four copies of that book illuminated in Kaeth’s own hand.”

Joff replies that now they are three. When he states that Tyrion and Sansa owe him a better gift, Tyrion is watching him closely:

“Perhaps a knife, sire. To match your sword. A dagger of the same Valyrian steel … with a dragonbone hilt, say?

Joff gave him a sharp look. “You… yes, a dagger to match my sword, good.” He nodded. “A … a gold hilt with rubies in it. Dragonbone is too plain.

Prince Oberyn and Ellaria Sand join Sansa and Tyrion as they are leaving the breakfast and Sansa takes note of the woman:

Sansa glanced at the woman curiously. She was baseborn and unwed, and had borne two bastard daughters for the prince, but she did not fear to look even the queen in the eye. Shae had told her that this Ellaria worshipped some Lysene love goddess. “She was almost a whore when he found her, m’lady,” her maid confided, “and now she’s near a princess. Sansa had never been this close to the Dornishwoman before. She is not truly beautiful, she thought, but something about her draws the eye.

Tyrion and Oberyn proceed to get into a conversation about the book that Joffrey destroyed. Tyrion is dismissive towards Baelor the Blessed, whom he sees as having spent all his time praying. Sansa believes that Baelor was a great king and then recites the story of Baelor rescuing the Dragonknight from a snakepit without being bitten. Ellaria tells her that this is only a tale for singers and septons, but that truthfully Baelor was bitten half a hundred times.

Tyrion and Sansa take a litter back to the castle and Tyrion insists that the curtains be closed because the people of KL hate him so much. Sansa is disappointed because it is a lovely day, but nevertheless acquiesces. She tells him that he is sorry that Joffrey destroyed his book, and Tyrion muses that he should have known better and recognized a lot of things sooner.

“Perhaps the dagger will please him more.”

When the dwarf grimaced, his scar tightened and twisted. “The boy’s earned himself a dagger, wouldn’t you say?

Tyrion then questions Sansa on the relationship between Joffrey and Bran at Winterfell, but Sansa does not remember there being any ill feelings between the two. As the journey continues, she notices Tyrion staring at her and is uncomfortable with his gaze.

“You loved your brothers, much as I love Jaime.”

Is this some Lannister trap to make my speak treason? My brothers were traitors, and they’ve gone to traitors’ graves. It is treason to love a traitor.”

Tyrion asks her if she knows what happened to Bran at Winterfell and tells her that he never harmed Bran, despite Catelyn having her suspicions, and that he means no harm to Sansa. The chapter ends with Sansa telling him that she has no desire to know how her mother and Robb died because it would give her bad dreams. Tyrion tells her he will say no more about it because he knows about bad dreams too.

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Analysis

Tyrion discovers in this chapter that it was Joffrey who hired the murderer for Bran, and it appears to make him regretful over the unhappiness that the Lannisters have caused Sansa’s family. He cannot tell her the truth about Bran’s assassin, but he wants to reassure her that he won’t harm her. The tragedy of their relationship, however, is that even while Tyrion may genuinely be trying to have a sincere moment with Sansa, and to reach out to her, she will never be able to overcome her fear and suspicions of him and his family. His mentioning of Jaime has the opposite reaction he intended, and merely serves to make Sansa become guarded and to revert back to her programmed responses. Sansa can see that he is desperate for something from her, but is in no way prepared or able to meet his desires. After he tells her that he would never harm Bran and means no harm to her, she thinks:

What does he want me to say? “That is good to know, my lord.” He wanted something from her, but Sansa did not know what it was. He looks like a starving child, but I have no food to give him. Why won’t he leave me be?

This reaction by Sansa pretty much illustrates the vast gulf and division between her and Tyrion. He remains desperate to connect with her, but she remains unwilling and unable to do the same. Sansa may recognize that he’s not a terrible person, and she may even appreciate that he didn’t force her to sleep with him, but there is absolutely no interest on her part to find any kind of shared understanding with this man, or to reveal her true feelings to him. When we think back to how easily she connected with the Hound, and was able to open up herself emotionally to him, the contrast is stark.

Whilst I can understand how Tyrion feels, my sympathies remain with Sansa. There is something to be said for her refusal and inability to respond to Tyrion’s needs in this moment and throughout their brief marriage. She might have been forced to repeat those wedding vows to him, and to let him put a Lannister bride cloak on her shoulders, but she has kept the really important part of herself separate and unreachable. Some people continue to express the belief that Sansa was shallow, or that she should have seen that Tyrion was at heart a nice man who only wanted to help her. However, what Sansa is being here isn’t shallow, superficial or unkind. I think she’s being honest, realistic and defiant. She shouldn’t be under any obligation to make a marriage work when she had no consent to it in the first place. And she shouldn’t be under any obligation to love a man simply because it would make him happy. Chemistry, attraction, desire, romance, compatibility, compassion: these things cannot be manufactured, even when one person in the relationship wants them badly.

I have to say that when I see the kinds of statements GRRM is making via Sansa’s character and her arc so far, I have hope that she will be able to chart an independent path for herself – away from the negative influences of men like Littlefinger – and that her romantic life in particular will not be about settling or compromising, but really experiencing true fulfilment in the man she ends up with.

Anyhoo, back to the chapter!

I really had a good time seeing Joffrey’s wedding breakfast through Sansa’s eyes, and she’s not without her humorous moments, like wondering whether Joffrey moved his fat, wormy lips to read. Also, when she notes that Lannister bride cloak was looking a bit threadbare, but surmised that it was because it was so “used,” it was a nice confirmation (albeit unknowingly) of the reason that the Tyrells rejected Cersei. One of the things this chapter makes clear is just how bitter Sansa is over having been made a Lannister, and how uncomfortable she is around her new family. She can make it through this wedding breakfast by slyly undermining Joffrey in her thoughts and wishing him badly, but if she didn’t have an escape planned I’m not sure she could have endured it.

I would imagine that any doubts Garlan Tyrell might have had that Joff would not make a suitable husband for Margaery were all erased that morning. Not only did the destruction of the book obviously annoy Garlan and move him to say something, but he could not have been pleased to hear that Joffrey was planning on raping Sansa whenever he wanted. Joff was truly becoming more and more uncontrollable and dangerous, and it’s hard to believe that Tyrion would have been able to protect Sansa if he had remained alive.

Her fear that Tyrion will say something to embarrass her again when Joff makes the promise to come to her bedchamber supports the argument I was making earlier about how mortified Sansa was when Tyrion made those rude jokes at the motley wedding. It wasn’t necessary for Tyrion to say those things, and only served in humiliating the girl.

Sansa’s opinion of Ellaria Sand is intriguing given the role she herself will later adopt as a bastard. Her recognition of the woman’s pride and dignity despite being unwed and of low birth serves as another lesson for Sansa about placing value in a person’s character, not whether they’re married or from noble stock. Ellaria might be base born but she’s kind and thoughtful, telling Sansa that Oberyn was only teasing her, and then going on to explain the truth behind him the tales. She also did this without talking down to the girl or making her appear stupid because she believed in the fabled version of events.

The dream of Lady and her brothers back at Winterfell and everyone safe together shows just how Sansa continues to be connected to her family and her Northern roots. The power of memory is evinced repeatedly in Sansa’s arc, and her ability to still dream of Lady suggests that her need for a replacement protector remains constant. After she wakes up, Sansa thinks that she must be brave like Robb, another sign of maturity and her determination not to buckle under her fears. Robb has died, but she’s going to honour his memory by keeping her courage in preparation for her escape later on in the night.

The cloud castles that she sees in the sky appear to foreshadow the eventual downfall of House Lannister, which aligned with the Freys ( the first image she sees appears to be that of “twin” castles) to bring about the destruction of the Starks (black and grey) but whose power is about to crumble (via their union with the Tyrells). What do others think about the symbolism of the cloud castles?

To sum up, it’s interesting how this chapter evokes the earlier one where Tyrion also agreed with Sansa on the fear of nightmares when dreaming. The difference of course is that now Tyrion is feeling quite bitter by his failed attempts to engage Sansa and reach past her courtesy armour, and agrees with her sarcastically.

Tyrion rubbed at his scarred, scabby nose yet again, an ugly habit that drew the eye to his ugly face. “You have never asked me how Robb died, or your lady mother.”

“I … would sooner not know. It would give me bad dreams.”

“Then I will say no more.”

“That … that’s kind of you.”

“Oh, yes,” said Tyrion. “I am the very soul of kindness. And I know about bad dreams.”

What remains the same is what is ultimately significant: Sansa still does not trust him and is still planning on escaping from KL no matter the assurances that Tyrion tries to placate her with. It’s almost like Martin wants to highlight just how their relationship hasn’t developed over this time, unfortunately remaining stagnant and unnatural.

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Having trouble with the board, but I wanted to respond to this piece that brashcandy quoted:

When she opens up the shutters she sees clouds that have formed into a castle shape:

There were clouds massing in the eastern sky pierced by shafts of sunlight. They look like two huge castles afloat in the morning sky. Sansa could see their walls of tumbled stone, their mighty keeps and barbicans. Wispy banners swirled from atop their towers and reached for the fast fading stars. The sun was coming up behind them, and she watched them go from black to grey to a thousand shades of rose and gold and crimson. Soon the wind mushed them together, and there was only one castle where there had been two.

When her maids enter the room to get her ready for the wedding breakfast, she calls them to the window to see the castle.

“It’s made of gold.” Shae had short dark hair and bold eyes. She did all she was asked of her, but sometimes she gave Sansa the most insolent looks. “A castle all of gold, there’s a sight I’d like to see.”

“A castle, is it?” Brella had to squint. “That tower’s tumbling over, looks like. It’s all ruins, that is.”

I'm thinking the castle clouds are representing her and Tyrion (grey- Stark, red-Lannister), symbolizing her "becoming a Lannister" , so to speak. The swirling until they become one symbolizing their marriage, and the tower toppling, indicates that the relationship itself is ruinous.

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I think one of the points the breakfast illustrates is how urgent it was for the Tyrells to rid themselves of Joffrey ASAP, before he ever got into Margaery's bed. Can you just imagine that first sexual experience for both of them? Shudder!

When you pluck quotes out and they stand on their own, it really brings out certain thoughts. Shae would like to see a castle made of gold indeed. First with Tyrion, then with Tywin. But the castle came tumbling down, and she fell under the stones didn't she?

I also get the feeling that Shae around Sansa would have ended quite badly had Sansa not escaped. Shae would have done something nasty or insolent to Sansa, IMHO, and the stuff would have hit the fan.

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I think one of the points the breakfast illustrates is how urgent it was for the Tyrells to rid themselves of Joffrey ASAP, before he ever got into Margaery's bed. Can you just imagine that first sexual experience for both of them? Shudder!

:ack:

When you pluck quotes out and they stand on their own, it really brings out certain thoughts. Shae would like to see a castle made of gold indeed. First with Tyrion, then with Tywin. But the castle came tumbling down, and she fell under the stones didn't she?
Oh interesting! I hadn't looked at it like that. Good catch! :thumbsup:

I also get the feeling that Shae around Sansa would have ended quite badly had Sansa not escaped. Shae would have done something nasty or insolent to Sansa, IMHO, and the stuff would have hit the fan.

Absolutely agree with you there!

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I believe the castles are The Twins. First black to grey (they were with the Starks, grey) and after rose and gold (Lannister). First one of the castle will fall, after another that they will be a ruin. Just a crackpot.

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The cloud castles that she sees in the sky appear to foreshadow the eventual downfall of House Lannister, which aligned with the Freys ( the first image she sees appears to be that of “twin” castles) to bring about the destruction of the Starks (black and grey) but whose power is about to crumble (via their union with the Tyrells). What do others think about the symbolism of the cloud castles?

I noted the castles in a previous thread of mine. It could either have something to do with the fall of the Freys or the eventual fall of both Stark and Lannister, with the glittering gold ruines and falling towers suggest something is going to happen at Casterley Rock.

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