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brashcandy

From Pawn to Player? Rereading Sansa V

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@ brashcandy

Another great job! You must be tired, working so hard.....comparing Tyrion and Sandor, the comparison is stark.........Drum roll, please!

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The cloud castles that she sees in the sky appear to foreshadow the eventual downfall of House Lannister, which aligned with the Freys ( the first image she sees appears to be that of “twin” castles) to bring about the destruction of the Starks (black and grey) but whose power is about to crumble (via their union with the Tyrells). What do others think about the symbolism of the cloud castles?

My view: the 2 castles at the beginning are Highgarden and Casterly Rock stand-ins. The castles merge, indicating the union/alliance between Tyrells and Lannisters; the unified castle is Golden because it is a Lannister king and regent and hand who are on top of things. Then, suddenly the castle is all in ruins (with a tower toppling over); the alliance ends in bitter enmity as Cersei and Margaery are at odds and the tower that has fallen may be foreshadowing the fall of the Tower of the Hand.

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@ brashcandy

Another great job! You must be tired, working so hard.....comparing Tyrion and Sandor, the comparison is stark.........Drum roll, please!

Thanks FB :)

My view: the 2 castles at the beginning are Highgarden and Casterly Rock stand-ins. The castles merge, indicating the union/alliance between Tyrells and Lannisters; the unified castle is Golden because it is a Lannister king and regent and hand who are on top of things. Then, suddenly the castle is all in ruins (with a tower toppling over); the alliance ends in bitter enmity as Cersei and Margaery are at odds and the tower that has fallen may be foreshadowing the fall of the Tower of the Hand.

This is a solid interpretation, and I liked Queen of Winter's take on the personal relevance of the symbolism as well.

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What does he want me to say? “That is good to know, my lord.” He wanted something from her, but Sansa did not know what it was. He looks like a starving child, but I have no food to give him. Why won’t he leave me be?

Beyond the literal reading, that Tyrion yearns for Sansa to give him the love of family, which he's never really known, I read this excerpt as 1) she can't be his life preserver when she can't even save herself and 2) the image represents mounting pressure and expectation that she will become a mother soon, and foreshadows her being saddled with Sweet Robin later on.

I believe the castles are The Twins. First black to grey (they were with the Starks, grey) and after rose and gold (Lannister). First one of the castle will fall, after another that they will be a ruin. Just a crackpot.

Agreed. This is the Red Wedding, the Twins turning coat, the blood spilled, the Rock is behind it all. She will live to see ruin fall on House Lannister.

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Not sure which castles are represented, but all the interpretations of the cloud-castles are well reasoned. I also think the scene showed that Sansa's imagination and sense of wonder are still alive, which, considering how trapped and depressed she feels, is a very good thing.

Summerqueen has a good point about Tyrion yearning for familial love and hoping desperately to get a loving family from/via Sansa. I do feel sorry for Tyrion to a certain extent; he never had a mother's love and the only female influence in his childhood was a sister who despised him and enjoyed torturing him. But for Tyrion to burden his very young bride (who is a captive audience for Tyrion in every sense of the word) with this intense expectation and hope of love, of children, hope that she will save him from an unhappy life, when they have only been married a month or so, at least in the way he stares at her, is a bit much. Who's the adult here and who is the orphaned child? Sansa is far too young to become a mother, especially of a Lannister child. At least she became Robin's mother-figure through her own choice; Sansa could have rejected Robin's plea. And Robin is an actual child who has just lost his mother and had already lost his father; events Sansa can understand due to her own experiences.

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@Raksha,

It makes one wonder how long this state of affairs could have continued if Sansa didn't have an escape route. How long would Tyrion have remained the starving child?

Anyways, their journey in the litter with the curtains closed symbolized just how stifled Sansa was by the marriage. One of her dreams when she thinks she's going to marry Willas is that they'll be sailing down the Mander on a pleasure barge. With Tyrion, however, she's confined to very close quarters, having to be mindful that the smallfolk hate him, along with his own family. It's a hellish situation to be in for a young girl who just longs for a peaceful existence right now.

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@Raksha,

It makes one wonder how long this state of affairs could have continued if Sansa didn't have an escape route. How long would Tyrion have remained the starving child?

Anyways, their journey in the litter with the curtains closed symbolized just how stifled Sansa was by the marriage. One of her dreams when she thinks she's going to marry Willas is that they'll be sailing down the Mander on a pleasure barge. With Tyrion, however, she's confined to very close quarters, having to be mindful that the smallfolk hate him, along with his own family. It's a hellish situation to be in for a young girl who just longs for a peaceful existence right now.

Yeah, both Sansa and Tyrion want a someone they can love and love them back, but are unable to do so with each other. The same could not be said for Sansa and Sandor who have a "The Beauty and the Beast" vibe going on, where she manages to see past the unwelcoming visage of the Hound and find something to love.

As for the two castles I agree with Wouter's interpretation, the castles are foreshadowing for the Lannister-Tyrell alliance. The combined castle seems to have fallen apart as quickly as it was made. The castle didn't last long and neither will the alliance as seen in AFfC.

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First I must say that it is a long wedding (first a breakfast with so many dishes!). It should be a boring, tedious wedding.

- Sansa trembles in the water. And she lies saying that the water was cold. She is a Northern, she is accostumed to cold.

- Tyrion drinking so early. Later he won´t be so quickly of mind.

- It is beginning a new century. Normally all the beginning of century brought war and political and even geographical changes).

- Tyrion when he wears his new clothes. He makes the joke of "seems less dwarf". But it really doesn´t sound as a joke, it is his own regrets. He is the one that doesn´t forget that he is a dwarf. He seems as stucked, without moving on.

- Joffrey looks Sansa (well that he is dead and she is gone out of KL, I don´t know what will be about her there).

- Tyrion presents: it wasn´t the proper one to Joffrey. All the rest of presents were action present (as sword, boats, etc) or vanity presents (the Scorpion fastener, the golden cup, ...)

- Joffrey naming again a sword. I don´t know but all the names of sword or ships of Joffrey they are become ironic. As Widowmoan? His own widow will not moan in his death.

- Joffrey understimates the Dragonbone cause it isn´t pretencious (as the golden and rubi hilt). And also to Sansa.

- Prince Oberyn notices that Joffrey is turning mad and nobody knows why (Baelor The Saint was bitten by many snakes and after he went mad.

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- Joffrey understimates the Dragonbone cause it isn´t pretencious (as the golden and rubi hilt). And also to Sansa.

- Prince Oberyn notices that Joffrey is turning mad and nobody knows why (Baelor The Saint was bitten by many snakes and after he went mad.

Bgona, did you note the fact that the dagger Tyrion is speaking about is the description of the dagger the hired killer slashed Catelyn with, when he went to kill Bran?

That's why Joffrey gets flustered and tries describing a different dagger.

You may know this, but I'm not certain.

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Of course! Even when Tyrion question to Joffrey if he will like a dagger of valyrian steel with Dragonbone, after Joffrey begin to ask something as: "Do you know..." (the sentence probably will be as Do you know about the hitman that I send to kill Bran with the dagger of LF? :lol: )

It is the same dagger why Tyrion almost was kill at the Vale (Catelyn arrested him, the war between Lannister and Stark begins, etc...).

Joffrey you did great!

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Yeah, both Sansa and Tyrion want a someone they can love and love them back, but are unable to do so with each other. The same could not be said for Sansa and Sandor who have a "The Beauty and the Beast" vibe going on, where she manages to see past the unwelcoming visage of the Hound and find something to love.

The "stark" contrast in her reaction to Sandor and Tyrion is here....she feels compassion and offers comfort to Sandor whereas she coldly turns away from Tyrion.

that alone says it all in regards to how she views each man

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We know from one of Tyrion's chapters in ACOK that Cersei told Tyrion, Sansa had told her, her father's plans (as in all his plans) because she wasn't going to tell her brother the truth that , "Yeah, Ned found out about me and Jaime, and Jaime trying to kill Bran, and offered me mercy and a chance to escape and live in exile before he told Robert, so I had the King murdered and then with the help of LF etc destroyed the King's will, arrested Ned and then had him threatened with his daughter's life to make a false confession that he was after the throne." This maybe why he thinks So although we know that Sansa only spoiled her and Arya's escape, Tyrion thinks she is responsible for telling everything to Cersei. This could again be construed as one of the reasons why Tyrion thinks she is stupid, or certainly why he doesn't trust her. We know all she did was tell Cersei that her father was sending her away and she wanted to stay with Joffery, but it is thought she did more. @ Brash I think it was you who noted earlier, that from their wedding until Joff's there is no Sansa chapter, as if she didn't have a voice in that time. This is an interesting idea for the next chapter as it seems like she almost stopped speaking completely during that period, apart from her courtesies.

FYI, I thought this also, and there is no POV from either Sansa's or Cerseis on the conversation but I accidentally came across this, seems Sansa said more than we thought per GRRM answer to this fan:

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Month/1999/04/

April 10, 1999

Regarding Sansa

Submitted By: Kay-Arne Hansen

Your question re Sansa...

The way I see it, it is not a case of all or nothing. No single person is to blame for Ned's downfall. Sansa played a role, certainly, but it would be unfair to put all the blame on her. But it would also be unfair to exonerate her. She was not privy to all of Ned's plans regarding Stannis, the gold cloaks, etc... but she knew more than just that her father planned to spirit her and Arya away from King's Landing. She knew when they were to leave, on what ship, how many men would be in their escort, who would have the command, where Arya was that morning, etc... all of which was useful to Cersei in planning and timing her move.

Ned's talk with Littlefinger was certainly a turning point, though I am not sure I would call it =the= turning point. There were other crucial decisions that could easily have changed all had they gone differently. You mention Ned's refusal of Renly, which was equally critical. And there is Varys to consider, as well as the minor but crucial player everyone forgets -- Janos Slynt, who might have chosen just to do his duty instead of selling the gold cloaks to the highest bidder.

So... all in all, I suppose my answer would be that there is no single villain in the piece who caused it all, but rather a good half dozen players whose actions were all in part responsible for what happened.

Hope that helps.

(And let me add that I am always astonished to be reminded how fiercely some of my readers argue these points. It's gratifying to know I have readers who care so much, although if truth be told sometimes I get the scary feeling that you people know these books better than I do... )

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Analysis

Tyrion discovers in this chapter that it was Joffrey who hired the murderer for Bran, and it appears to make him regretful over the unhappiness that the Lannisters have caused Sansa’s family. He cannot tell her the truth about Bran’s assassin, but he wants to reassure her that he won’t harm her. The tragedy of their relationship, however, is that even while Tyrion may genuinely be trying to have a sincere moment with Sansa, and to reach out to her, she will never be able to overcome her fear and suspicions of him and his family. His mentioning of Jaime has the opposite reaction he intended, and merely serves to make Sansa become guarded and to revert back to her programmed responses. Sansa can see that he is desperate for something from her, but is in no way prepared or able to meet his desires. After he tells her that he would never harm Bran and means no harm to her, she thinks:

This reaction by Sansa pretty much illustrates the vast gulf and division between her and Tyrion. He remains desperate to connect with her, but she remains unwilling and unable to do the same. Sansa may recognize that he’s not a terrible person, and she may even appreciate that he didn’t force her to sleep with him, but there is absolutely no interest on her part to find any kind of shared understanding with this man, or to reveal her true feelings to him. When we think back to how easily she connected with the Hound, and was able to open up herself emotionally to him, the contrast is stark.

Whilst I can understand how Tyrion feels, my sympathies remain with Sansa. There is something to be said for her refusal and inability to respond to Tyrion’s needs in this moment and throughout their brief marriage. She might have been forced to repeat those wedding vows to him, and to let him put a Lannister bride cloak on her shoulders, but she has kept the really important part of herself separate and unreachable. Some people continue to express the belief that Sansa was shallow, or that she should have seen that Tyrion was at heart a nice man who only wanted to help her. However, what Sansa is being here isn’t shallow, superficial or unkind. I think she’s being honest, realistic and defiant. She shouldn’t be under any obligation to make a marriage work when she had no consent to it in the first place. And she shouldn’t be under any obligation to love a man simply because it would make him happy. Chemistry, attraction, desire, romance, compatibility, compassion: these things cannot be manufactured, even when one person in the relationship wants them badly.

I have to say that when I see the kinds of statements GRRM is making via Sansa’s character and her arc so far, I have hope that she will be able to chart an independent path for herself – away from the negative influences of men like Littlefinger – and that her romantic life in particular will not be about settling or compromising, but really experiencing true fulfilment in the man she ends up with.

Anyhoo, back to the chapter!

I really had a good time seeing Joffrey’s wedding breakfast through Sansa’s eyes, and she’s not without her humorous moments, like wondering whether Joffrey moved his fat, wormy lips to read. Also, when she notes that Lannister bride cloak was looking a bit threadbare, but surmised that it was because it was so “used,” it was a nice confirmation (albeit unknowingly) of the reason that the Tyrells rejected Cersei. One of the things this chapter makes clear is just how bitter Sansa is over having been made a Lannister, and how uncomfortable she is around her new family. She can make it through this wedding breakfast by slyly undermining Joffrey in her thoughts and wishing him badly, but if she didn’t have an escape planned I’m not sure she could have endured it.

I would imagine that any doubts Garlan Tyrell might have had that Joff would not make a suitable husband for Margaery were all erased that morning. Not only did the destruction of the book obviously annoy Garlan and move him to say something, but he could not have been pleased to hear that Joffrey was planning on raping Sansa whenever he wanted. Joff was truly becoming more and more uncontrollable and dangerous, and it’s hard to believe that Tyrion would have been able to protect Sansa if he had remained alive.

Her fear that Tyrion will say something to embarrass her again when Joff makes the promise to come to her bedchamber supports the argument I was making earlier about how mortified Sansa was when Tyrion made those rude jokes at the motley wedding. It wasn’t necessary for Tyrion to say those things, and only served in humiliating the girl.

Sansa’s opinion of Ellaria Sand is intriguing given the role she herself will later adopt as a bastard. Her recognition of the woman’s pride and dignity despite being unwed and of low birth serves as another lesson for Sansa about placing value in a person’s character, not whether they’re married or from noble stock. Ellaria might be base born but she’s kind and thoughtful, telling Sansa that Oberyn was only teasing her, and then going on to explain the truth behind him the tales. She also did this without talking down to the girl or making her appear stupid because she believed in the fabled version of events.

The dream of Lady and her brothers back at Winterfell and everyone safe together shows just how Sansa continues to be connected to her family and her Northern roots. The power of memory is evinced repeatedly in Sansa’s arc, and her ability to still dream of Lady suggests that her need for a replacement protector remains constant. After she wakes up, Sansa thinks that she must be brave like Robb, another sign of maturity and her determination not to buckle under her fears. Robb has died, but she’s going to honour his memory by keeping her courage in preparation for her escape later on in the night.

The cloud castles that she sees in the sky appear to foreshadow the eventual downfall of House Lannister, which aligned with the Freys ( the first image she sees appears to be that of “twin” castles) to bring about the destruction of the Starks (black and grey) but whose power is about to crumble (via their union with the Tyrells). What do others think about the symbolism of the cloud castles?

To sum up, it’s interesting how this chapter evokes the earlier one where Tyrion also agreed with Sansa on the fear of nightmares when dreaming. The difference of course is that now Tyrion is feeling quite bitter by his failed attempts to engage Sansa and reach past her courtesy armour, and agrees with her sarcastically.

What remains the same is what is ultimately significant: Sansa still does not trust him and is still planning on escaping from KL no matter the assurances that Tyrion tries to placate her with. It’s almost like Martin wants to highlight just how their relationship hasn’t developed over this time, unfortunately remaining stagnant and unnatural.

I thought it foreshadowed the Twins being toppled, I think this is closer then WF, or the red keep or any others.

ETA: move my text to proper location.

Damn SQL errors.

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Edited. Not enough focus on relevant chapter, sorry.

It was excellent though and you made some very astute points about Margery!

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Edited. Not enough focus on relevant chapter, sorry.

Bring back the post - you raised some great points comparing Margaery to Sansa! Or else, start a new thread comparing the girls...

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@Raksha,

It makes one wonder how long this state of affairs could have continued if Sansa didn't have an escape route. How long would Tyrion have remained the starving child?

Anyways, their journey in the litter with the curtains closed symbolized just how stifled Sansa was by the marriage. One of her dreams when she thinks she's going to marry Willas is that they'll be sailing down the Mander on a pleasure barge. With Tyrion, however, she's confined to very close quarters, having to be mindful that the smallfolk hate him, along with his own family. It's a hellish situation to be in for a young girl who just longs for a peaceful existence right now.

If Sansa had been unable to flee King's Landing, and presuming she and Tyrion weren't blamed for Joffrey's death, I think the marriage would have destroyed Sansa. She either would have sunk into a depression, gone nutty like Lysa, or become cold and cynical, even ruthless, behind her courtesy armor.

Perhaps if Tyrion had made common cause with Sansa, broken with his family when he took her to Winterfell, they might have had a chance to develop some kind of semi-decent relationship; particularly if Tyrion managed to father a child or two on her. But that in itself could have horrified Sansa, to become the mother of Lannisters.

I think that Tyrion would not have continued too many months to beg for emotional scraps from Sansa; he just would not have the patience, particularly if Shae had remained on the scene to stroke his ego.

It was a marriage made in hell, not heaven.

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This chapter highlights even stronger that while Tyrion and Sansa must not necessarily be enemies, their current situation in Kings Landing makes it impossible for them to reach out or connect. Sansa is unable to trust him because he is a Lannister. She plays her role at the breakfast, but it is obvious how she cannot stand the rest of the Lannister family and especially Joffrey, whom she mocks internally (and lol at her being snide about his intellect, too).

The saddest bit is in the end, when Tyrion is really making an effort to reach out to her, but she is suspicious and won't let him get at her.

Apart from that it's a lot of courtly interaction. We see Garlan the Gallant and more Tyrell/Lannister interaction. I hope Sansa at some point remembers these conversations and figures things out once she gets more into the swing of things with LF, since it seems her time as a hostage in KL has exposed her to a lot of situations which reveal things about the powerful people involved, like Oberyn, Ellaria, Garlan, Olenna, the rest of the Tyrell entourage, etc.

It seems obvious from both the Tyrell and the Dornish that they all think Joffrey is an awful king and basically a ludicrous Lannister puppet gone rogue. We also get some information that both Garlan and Oberyn are fairly well read men and that they don't look down on knowledge, while Tywin focuses more on might and force (as per his wedding gift). Overall, I think if Sansa retains information from her KL time, it will serve her well to understand and manipulate people in the future.

Regarding the castle of gold, if it signifies the Lannisters, I think it means they will be the most powerful family in the land, but after that, they will topple. And as others have pointed out, Shae went down with that particular golden castle. :)

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Tyrion's version of discretion:

Sansa speaking to Dontos after she fled the hall during Joff's poisoning:

In previous chapters we have seen Cersei, Joffery and the Queen of Thorns refer to her as stupid and Tywin refer to her as tractable. All of them have not even a clue that she is planning an escape attempt, even Varys. She is watched by servants and the KG, and although they don't think of her as clever, there are so many things that could have given her away, that she manages to cover up such as her reason to Tyrion for why she won't accepted his offer to have her stay in the Tower of the Hand and let his Wildlings guard her and keeping tremendously calm and not giving anything away when Cersei talks about her treasons in the Godswood. Even the reason she gives to Tyrion for not coming to the Godswood is taken at face value.

I would imagine given the popular image of these people, that she is stupid, Tyrion would think that too. Certainly his thoughts about her see to indicate it. He doesn't think of her as a "lackwit" though, so maybe dumb and naive are better descriptions for his opinion of her.

What is clear from his chapters and from hers, is that people do not think of her as all that bright. They do not see the internal workings of her mind and most (Tywin, Tyrells etc) have not witnessed the year she had in Joffery's hands and the way she learnt to compose herself through iron self-control. The only people who vaguely saw behind her mask were Sandor Clegane and Ser Dontos.

This.

One of the many reasons I enjoy this thread is how much more its made me appreciate Sansa’s political astuteness and subtlety. Originally, I always saw Sansa as a very bright girl and scoffed at those on these boards who called her dim, silly, foolish, etc. However, what stood out most to me while reading her chapters the first few times was the sheer awfulness of her situation. Thus, on my own first couple of read throughs, Sansa’s character arc struck me as the story of a girl being thrust into a horrific situation and being preyed on by those around her, merely struggling to survive. I was more preoccupied with being angry over the injustice of the whole thing, and less focused on Sansa’s own increasing wisdom, skill, and ingenuity, which I think is rendered so subtly that it is only too easy to miss.

Anyway, in the past I always saw Sansa as a victim who only now was getting on her way to becoming an independent player. However, these discussions regarding how Sansa has already learned to conceal her emotions, hide her activities, and fool some of the canniest players in the court has made me revise my opinions. Instead of the story of a child victim, Sansa’s arc becomes the story of a girl whose abilities are constantly overlooked and underestimated by those around her, which only testifies further to her skills.

I especially enjoy the fact that Sansa is already more politically savvy in some respects than Tyrion, who is constantly praised by most posters for his brilliance. Comparing him to Sansa, quite a few of Tyrion’s mistakes become all the more glaring. And yeah, contrary to the claims of many, I can totally see how Cersei could legitimately believe that Tyrion could have killed Joffrey, considering his attitude towards him in the past.

Which, just maybe, makes Tyrion’s stated desire to murder and rape his sister just the slightest bit unjust :rolleyes:

Actually, taking a good hard look at Tyrion’s political skills and especially the issues that have been brought up here, I seriously question whether he would really be such a great help when he travels east to serve as an advisor to Dany, as he is generally expected to do. Will he really be just what Dany needs to rule well, as so many claim? Does Dany really need to be taught about forgiveness and the folly of revenge….from the guy who wants to murder and rape his sister? Should she be taught the value of keeping personal feelings and pettiness out of administrative decisions by the guy who loathed numerous people in Kings Landing for laughing at his (rather hilariously ridiculous) sexual nicknames when they were revealed in court? Should she learn about fairness from the guy behind the antler incident, from the guy who had Symon Sylvertongue murdered and cannibalized? And can she really be forced to face “the hard truths” from a guy who refuses to face a single one about his love life himself? IMO, at this point, impossible though it would be, Sansa would be a better advisor to Dany than the great Tyrion.

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Excellent summary and analysis Brash.

Her torments would soon be ended, one way or the other.
They have made me a Lannister, Sansa thought bitterly

These are the first comments we have from Sansa about how she feels since her wedding. “Torment” seems to indicate that her situation had indeed become even worse in her eyes since her marriage. And her bitterness is understandable as she has been made into one of the family that she wants her children to hate and that she hates herself.

The last bit of the first quote had me thinking about the “other way” her torments would have ended and if she had contemplated suicide if the escape plan had not come about? Certainly she is now at her lowest in the series. The only evidence of suicide being a possible meaning comes from her initial desire at the end of AGOT to throw herself out the window and her lack of concern if she were to die too if she pushed Joff off the walkway. Anyone else thought about what this might mean?

Sansa’s emotions in this chapter very much echo her father’s words that you can only be brave when you are afraid. She thinks about taking the edge off her fears with a cup of wine or not going to the breakfast, but then thinks she shall be brave. Compare her decision not to drink to Tyrion’s desire to get drunk. (On a sidenote, I can only remember three occasions when Sansa has a lot to drink: with Joff on the day Lady was killed, at the insistence of Cersei at the BBW and then on her Wedding night with Tyrion as a means of combating her fear and despair.)

The wedding breakfast is one long humiliation for her and her ability to rise above the humiliating comments thrown her way, will have been very clear to others in the room. Her nervousness about Tyrion embarrassing her or himself is also sad and again highlights that she still feels humiliated about his comments during their wedding. Brash made an excellent point about Garlan Tyrell and the impression Joff was making on everyone.

When his joke about her having a baby was met with laughter, as Sansa notes, when the King laughs the Court laughs, suggesting it was obviously very fake laughter and even she could see that. This chapter again highlights that she is becoming more and more perceptive of the motivations behind people’s actions. She is still not a player, but she has learnt to question people’s motivations. This is evident in her conversation with Tyrion:

Why is he looking at me that way?
Is this some Lannister trap to make me speak treason?
What does he want me to say?
He looks like a starving child, but I have no food to give him. Why won’t he leave me be?
*

She has absolutely no reason to trust him and clearly is wary of all his attempts at conversation so responds with learned courtesies.

In terms of their relationship, it is clear that although Tyrion tries at times to get through her courtesy armour, he seems to spend as little time with her as possible. She is used to his not being there when she wakes and at the feast she notes

He might have been all alone in his solar for all the attention he paid Sansa.
While she may not want his attention, the lack of it is noticeable and it is clear that she avoids paying any attention to him as much as possible too.

She has to force herself to talk to him when they are only in the litter, which I think again indicates how bad things were between them. Also despite Tyrion asking her to call him Tyrion on their wedding night, she still calls him my Lord. She doesn’t even use the intimacy of calling him by his first name. It’s not covered in the text, but I wonder if the lack of interaction between them was noticed by others at court?

Also I thought that despite being Ser Ilyne’s cousin, the fact she can still like timid Pod was another nice facet of her character.

* I sometimes wonder about the use of italics in the series. Any thoughts?

@ Queen Cersei I

I agree that Cersei had every reason to suspect Tyrion and also that Cat had did too in AGOT. In both instances LF had set them up to assume it was him.

@ Grail King

Good find on the quote from GRRM. It does highlight more responsibility on Sansa’s part. Although as he said it was many factors and I still think Sansa’s part was small in comparison to others. Also she was unaware of what was going on in the larger picture.

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