Arya in season 2

[protar]

I don't get people who just rant and rave about whether something was essential to the plot... How can you not like Arya's arc? Through her eyes we see: Yoren, Ser Amory, Gregor and his gang, Tywin, Vargo Hoat, Rorge, Biter, Jaqen... We get our first in depth look at Roose Bolton... I thought it was my favorite arc of the 2nd book... Who cares if it didn't affect the overall plot... Sometimes I wonder why people read books... Sometimes its to get a good story or to be entertained... Arya is 10 years old in this book, she frees the northmen without realizing Vargo Hoat was going to free them anyway... so it wasn't essential, but it was awesome! What about the part where the Frey boy is crying about a princess and arya says i hope your princess dies without realizing the princess is HER. I mean come on people get serious... If you only care about "the essential plot line" why don't you read wikipedia instead of the books themselves?

It wasn't just that it had little effect on the plot (though I'll admit I forgot about the consequences of her helping to take Harrenhal.), It was that I didn't find it interesting. Dany's arc in GOT didn't really have much of an effect on the plot aside from a couple of indirect things, but I still found it engaging because what was going on was interesting. We've got 10 Arya chapters in COK I believe. The first 4 or 5 were travelogue chapters and they're always some of the worst chapters because they're isolated from most of the interesting characters, the magic and the politics (the 3 main things for which I read this series.). Now out of them I only found the holdfast attack remotely interesting. Then we have a couple of chapters about the deaths of 1-dimensional minor characters which I don't care about. Then we've got Weasel soup which I'll agree was awesome. Then her interactions with Roose which I did like and her escape from Harrenhal which was pretty good as well. So about 3 or 4 chapters out of 10, which I found interesting. Not good in my opinion. There's my reasoning, you don't have to agree with it, but please don't tell me I shouldn't be reading the books.

[Kyrion]

Arya's my favorite arc in COK above both Tyrion's and Theon's. Im really looking forward to it aswell :).

[Rob the God]

Well her working at Harrenhaal was boring so they could have cut part of it, otherwise good arc

[Arrogant Bastard]

And now it seems they're combining Vargo with Amory. This makes no sense to me. Hoat always had a lot more flare and colour than Lorch, but I guess they didn't want to cause confusion about why they had someone from Essos working for the Lannisters.

I don't think they're combining Hoat with Lorch, they're just not having Hoat in the second season. Which is a smart move, as he does absolutely nothing in ACOK. I don't even think he has a single line of dialog. So it would make little sense to cast an actor for Hoat, pay him, and have him just stand around. Same thing with Roose Bolton last year; he's in AGOT, but has like one line, so the producers wisely waited until season 2 to cast an actor for that character.

Arya's arc in ACOK is actually one of my favorite throughout the whole series, and I'm probably looking forward to it the most in season 2. I just hope they don't short change it in favor of expanding Robb or Dany's storyline.

[protar]

I don't think they're combining Hoat with Lorch, they're just not having Hoat in the second season. Which is a smart move, as he does absolutely nothing in ACOK. I don't even think he has a single line of dialog. So it would make little sense to cast an actor for Hoat, pay him, and have him just stand around. Same thing with Roose Bolton last year; he's in AGOT, but has like one line, so the producers wisely waited until season 2 to cast an actor for that character.

Arya's arc in ACOK is actually one of my favorite throughout the whole series, and I'm probably looking forward to it the most in season 2. I just hope they don't short change it in favor of expanding Robb or Dany's storyline.

True, although in that case why not give Amory's role to Hoat? Amory does a fair bit in COK, but I never really felt like he was a proper character like I did with Vargo. It would make more sense to combine them into one, the problem is which character gets to take precedence in that combination, if that makes sense.

[Arrogant Bastard]

True, although in that case why not give Amory's role to Hoat? Amory does a fair bit in COK, but I never really felt like he was a proper character like I did with Vargo. It would make more sense to combine them into one, the problem is which character gets to take precedence in that combination, if that makes sense.

I think there's an easy answer for why they didn't give Amory's role to Hoat. I'll put in spoilers.

Hoat is pretty important in ASOS with the capturing of Jaime, and I imagine he will be cast in season 3 along with some extras to fill out the rest of the bloody mummers. Lorch dies in ACOK, and I think the show will want to keep his death, either with the bear trap as it was in the book or possibly as one of Arya's three wishes. I initially thought they would just merge Gregor with Lorch, but the writers probably want a villain to die and Amory fills that role, plus with the recasting of the actor playing Gregor they might have wanted someone new.

[the wolf warg]

Arya plot is the best part of Acok the amount of action she encounters is amazing compared to everyone else, I really hope they do it justice and include everything

[dark sister]

Personally I hope they don't give it too much time. It was by far the most boring arc in Clash imo.

Damn, that is just sad! Arya is my favorite character.

I thought out of all the characters in Clash, her character underwent the most dramatic (dare I say epic?) transformation. Sansa was still a lady, and still surprisingly naive for all that had happened to her (but that's just her personality, not necessarily something I'm trashing her for) Tyrion was clever Tyrion, as expected, Cersei was still mad, just getting madder, Catelyn was the exact same (but don't get me wrong, I really like her character), Robb was winning battles and acting kingly but we never got his POV, Bran was slowly becoming in tune with his warg side, Rickon was a toddler...who else?

Oh, Renly was being power-hungry for about ten minutes until Mel cut him down. Stannis did undergo some change, and I liked the introduction of Davos, but it was really Arya who had absolutely NOTHING -- no money, no clothes, no Needle (after only a short while) and was snatched by the psychopath Gregor Clegane. She could have been picked to be tortured for information any one of those days but wasn't, and she kept her courage through everything, risking all to try to rescue Gendry after he had been caught.

Ok, I'm sorry if it sounds a little like a rant but I just can't believe you found her arc boring! Especially after her arrival in Harrenhal, when she learns a few things from Jaquen and starts to become a professional killer. That stunt at the end where she thinks to drop the coin when she has only a second to think is pretty incredible in my view.

May I ask why you think it was boring? Whose arc did you think was the most exciting?

Also, getting back to what you originally said, I'm afraid that you might not get your wish -- from the trailers and what I've read, it appears that Arya's story will be one of the major arcs in the second season, along with Tyrion's, Stannis', Dany's (obviously, Robb's, and possibly Theon's. It seems like Bran's POV and a couple of others won't be featured as much, but I suppose you can only fit so much into one season.

Arya's chapters COK were interesting because of all the Starks, she was in the most immediate danger, and the worst equipped to handle it.

I totally disagree that she was the worst-equipped to handle her danger, but probably for different reasons than you do. If you're talking about her being small, young, not being all armored up like Robb, and having no money, then you have a point. But I think we see in the end how much armor and money really matter (battle between Mountain and Red Viper, for instance). Also, Sansa has money and jewels and silks, but it does her no good.

I think SHE is in the most immediate danger because of Joffrey's crazy temper and his mother's inability to control it, and her naivete/innocence.

I believe that Arya, on the other hand, has the spirit of her aunt Lyanna in her, PLUS some extra strength, like a Lyanna 2.0 ;-) Or maybe not...perhaps if Lord Rickard had let Lyanna practice at arms like Ned did with Arya, they'd be the same...but either way, I think she's the strongest Stark.

It didn't need resolution. The journey itself was more important.

WORD. Why don't more people realize that? If Martin just recited the story like a fairy tale, and came to the conclusion, would that make the series as beautiful and rich as it is? Thanks for pointing that out.

Only it wasn't, on account of it not affecting the plot at all. Only Arya could be given magic wishes to kill any three people in the world and not affect the plot one bit.

Actually, when you think about it, her wishes DID affect the plot - hugely. Her wasteful, selfish use of the wishes (the selfish one I'm referring to in particular was Weese) ennabled Tywin, Joffrey, and Cersei to live. She realizes this at the last minute when the Lannister party is riding out:

A shiver crept up Arya’s spine as she watched them pass under the great iron portcullis of Harrenhal. Suddenly she knew that she had made a terrible mistake. I’m so stupid, she thought. Weese did not matter, no more than Chiswyck had. These were the men who mattered, the ones she ought to have killed. Last night she could have whispered any of them dead, if only she hadn’t been so mad at Weese for hitting her and lying about the capon. Lord Tywin, why didn’t I say Lord Tywin?

If, at the very least, she had named Tywin,

The Red Wedding, at the very least, wouldn't have happened.

So when you think about it, her effect on the plot was HUGE!

[Chelly]

I am very excited for this particular episode because it was one of my favorite parts from ACoK. I found Arya's story in ACoK to be incredibly gripping, intense, and made the book all that more awesome for me. You get an inside look of the bad guys through her eyes and you get to know all interesting sorts like Yoren, Jaqen, and Roose.. I actually like Gendry and I loved his and Arya's friendship that starts to develop throughout the book. So that's something I'm also looking forward to seeing played out.

[Maginor]

Also, the journey really isn't more important. I see that sentence bandied about all the time. No. This isn't a third-grade adventure book where they go searching for the ultimate treasure and discover that it was within their hearts all along. Endings matter.

A book does not have to be a third grade adventure novel for the journey to matter. In my experience, it is in the cheap novels where everything is focused on the final climax. If you think everything should just build up to a satisfying end though, I get why you find Arya's story boring. Try to understand the actual stories that are told there and you may not.

[protar]

Damn, that is just sad! Arya is my favorite character.

I thought out of all the characters in Clash, her character underwent the most dramatic (dare I say epic?) transformation. Sansa was still a lady, and still surprisingly naive for all that had happened to her (but that's just her personality, not necessarily something I'm trashing her for) Tyrion was clever Tyrion, as expected, Cersei was still mad, just getting madder, Catelyn was the exact same (but don't get me wrong, I really like her character), Robb was winning battles and acting kingly but we never got his POV, Bran was slowly becoming in tune with his warg side, Rickon was a toddler...who else?

Oh, Renly was being power-hungry for about ten minutes until Mel cut him down. Stannis did undergo some change, and I liked the introduction of Davos, but it was really Arya who had absolutely NOTHING -- no money, no clothes, no Needle (after only a short while) and was snatched by the psychopath Gregor Clegane. She could have been picked to be tortured for information any one of those days but wasn't, and she kept her courage through everything, risking all to try to rescue Gendry after he had been caught.

Ok, I'm sorry if it sounds a little like a rant but I just can't believe you found her arc boring! Especially after her arrival in Harrenhal, when she learns a few things from Jaquen and starts to become a professional killer. That stunt at the end where she thinks to drop the coin when she has only a second to think is pretty incredible in my view.

May I ask why you think it was boring? Whose arc did you think was the most exciting?

Also, getting back to what you originally said, I'm afraid that you might not get your wish -- from the trailers and what I've read, it appears that Arya's story will be one of the major arcs in the second season, along with Tyrion's, Stannis', Dany's (obviously, Robb's, and possibly Theon's. It seems like Bran's POV and a couple of others won't be featured as much, but I suppose you can only fit so much into one season.

I totally disagree that she was the worst-equipped to handle her danger, but probably for different reasons than you do. If you're talking about her being small, young, not being all armored up like Robb, and having no money, then you have a point. But I think we see in the end how much armor and money really matter (battle between Mountain and Red Viper, for instance). Also, Sansa has money and jewels and silks, but it does her no good.

I think SHE is in the most immediate danger because of Joffrey's crazy temper and his mother's inability to control it, and her naivete/innocence.

I believe that Arya, on the other hand, has the spirit of her aunt Lyanna in her, PLUS some extra strength, like a Lyanna 2.0 ;-) Or maybe not...perhaps if Lord Rickard had let Lyanna practice at arms like Ned did with Arya, they'd be the same...but either way, I think she's the strongest Stark.

WORD. Why don't more people realize that? If Martin just recited the story like a fairy tale, and came to the conclusion, would that make the series as beautiful and rich as it is? Thanks for pointing that out.

Actually, when you think about it, her wishes DID affect the plot - hugely. Her wasteful, selfish use of the wishes (the selfish one I'm referring to in particular was Weese) ennabled Tywin, Joffrey, and Cersei to live. She realizes this at the last minute when the Lannister party is riding out:

If, at the very least, she had named Tywin,

The Red Wedding, at the very least, wouldn't have happened.

So when you think about it, her effect on the plot was HUGE!

I've already said why I didn't find it interesting: Boring characters (including Arya herself who can be quite whiny and annoying.) aside from a couple like Yoren and Jaqen, distance from the main plot, and lack of a lot of what makes the series great like the political intrigue. And really I don't think that is very good reasoning for her having an effect on the plot. By that logic Wendel Manderly is a major character because he didn't stop the RW by pushing Tywin off the battlements when they were talking. The weasel soup did have an effect on the larger plot, although to be honest Roose probably would have taken Harrenhal without Arya. Lorch only had 100 men in his garrison, and Vargo would have turned his cloak as soonRoose arrived. Arya's arc later on in the books is much better. It's still distanced from the plot, but atleast she's grown up a bit and is doing something cool. As for my own favourite arc I'll say Tyrion's. Everything that Arya's arc lacked found it's way to Tyrion's. Interesting stuff was going on, and even the minor characters felt alive.

[Dragon greyscale]

I thought arya's chapters were awesome. Assasin training and coming of age...Nuff said.

On the issue of the larger plot: if the FM are to play a bigger role (which I think they will) Arya's pov is quite essential, if only because it's the only pov where we learn from this organization. In COK, we see the beginning of this exploration because she meets jaqen. It serves her personal narrative of vengeance combined with what I believe will be quite an essential part of the endgame. The FM are definitely up to something and perhaps arya will also be the focal point of their goal. Some poster somewhere suggested she would kill Dany...sounds pretty essential.

[dark sister]

I've already said why I didn't find it interesting: Boring characters (including Arya herself who can be quite whiny and annoying.)

ARYA is whiny? It's the people she's travelling with who are whiny, not her! If anything, she's pissed that everyone else is always teasing her (Lommy/Hot Pie) or talking about yielding. I really don't know where you're getting that impression -- she is the least complaining character out of anyone in the series, imo. And I didn't read your other post, must not have seen it.

aside from a couple like Yoren and Jaqen, distance from the main plot, and lack of a lot of what makes the series great like the political intrigue. And really I don't think that is very good reasoning for her having an effect on the plot. By that logic Wendel Manderly is a major character because he didn't stop the RW by pushing Tywin off the battlements when they were talking. The weasel soup did have an effect on the larger plot, although to be honest Roose probably would have taken Harrenhal without Arya. Lorch only had 100 men in his garrison, and Vargo would have turned his cloak as soonRoose arrived. Arya's arc later on in the books is much better. It's still distanced from the plot, but atleast she's grown up a bit and is doing something cool. As for my own favourite arc I'll say Tyrion's. Everything that Arya's arc lacked found it's way to Tyrioten's. Interesting stuff was going on, and even the minor characters felt alive.

Ok, I see now. You're just into the political intrigue.

And I think that your straw man concerning Wendel Manderly is not very good reasoning. Arya basically had the power of a god by having a faceless man being able to kill any three people she wanted, and by not killing Lannisters (ironically, the ones who usually ended her death wish list) events that happened later were able to occur. She could have ordered Tywin, Cersei, and Joffrey dead, and have no repurcussions. Wendel couldn't just "push Tywin off the battlements" and go along his merry way...he was a hostage. Arya was unknown, to everyone else a nobody. No one would have suspected her and no one would have been able to trace those deaths back to her. And yes, she realized her mistake. I'd say that her arc is pretty epic. Just because an arc doesn't have political intrigue in it on the level of the shit that happens in the Red Keep doesn't mean it's not integral to the story.

[kephv]

Just because an arc doesn't have political intrigue in it on the level of the shit that happens in the Red Keep doesn't mean it's not integral to the story.

This! Actually, with the way Arya's story is headed, she's probably going to get very political. She has the potential to take out any number of various key figures in the game of thrones, Dany being a favorite theory amongst many. Arya -- Faceless (Wo)Man, warg commander of wolves, water dancer, etc... -- is headed to stir shit up on a massive level!

[dreamcatcher]

Arya's story is one of my favourites in ACoK (apart from Jon's) and I can't wait to see it on tele :)

[boojam]

Arya's arc was only annoying because of the complete and utter lack of resolution.

Jez you could say that about the arcs in all the novels!

[Elaena Targaryen]

I loved Arya's chapters in ACOK. I love Arya period, some one who never whines. I wanted to see all of the places she went and see all of the characters she met. I loved that it continued in ASOS.

That being said I think the show will do a pretty good job with it. What happens to Arya is essential to her future story, and a lot happens, and she has way to many great characters in her scenes. They made a Harrenhal set and we did not get a Riverrun set. :shrug: People who found her chapters boring just might realize from the show how devastating and heartbreaking Arya's arc actualy is.

[kephv]

Speaking of Arya in Season 2, here's a new promo with some dialogue and a few new shots from her.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Il7FT4p2jqE

[hombay]

Never liked Arya and her storylne in ACoK was not my favourite. No Arya storyline has been my favourite.

Nevertheless, it does introduce some interesting characters so I'm looking forward to that.

Off-topic: Why does everyone love Arya? Is it because people relate to her? How can people enjoy relating to the biggest brat in the series?

[dark sister]

Off-topic: Why does everyone love Arya? Is it because people relate to her? How can people enjoy relating to the biggest brat in the series?

How is she a brat? She's a survivor. She's tough. She never gives up. She believes in doing things all by herself, without any help. She's playful. She's a tomboy. (A modern woman, eventually.) She's a warrior. She's funny.

I suppose you think people like Joffrey and Sansa and Cersei and Lancel etc. etc. are the exact opposite of brats.

Or you just think everyone in the series is a brat.