Initial Impressions on Season 2

[Kaitscralt]

I guess I'm the only one who was expecting worse when I heard about an LF blunder in the episode. Sure, what happened is a bit of a dunce move, but to me it just sounds like Littlefinger is so confident that he can mouth off to Cersei in private because he knows that she will just threaten him back. Cersei's craziness doesn't really blossom until after ASOS, for obvious reasons. I think he could predict that nothing would come of it. Littlefinger knows that Cersei needs him, and Cersei knows that he needs her family. I haven't seen the scene so this is of course baseless speculation, but as it stands I am not really too worried about it. I don't think Littlefinger's character comes out too scathed.

[Lebronn Jaime]

I'd say that Cersei and Joffrey is another area where they've brought out the sledgehammer to make the points they want to make. However, if you did not hate the portrayal of Cersei in the first season (as I most definitely did, it was the worst part of S1), you probably won't mind it.

Out of curiosity, what about Cersei's portrayal did you dislike?

[Hyper]

Great, they made my favorite character look like an idiot and do something that he'd never do. Awesome! :bang:

I love how people are so sure of what these characters would do in private (before even seeing the scene in question), even though Littlefinger has never been a POV, and Cersei only became one much later. Yay for fandom! :ack:

[teemo]

Well, in my defense, I did admit I was overreacting and being quite a bit irrational. I've managed to calm down since that post :P But got it.

[Arrogant Bastard]

I guess I'm the only one who was expecting worse when I heard about an LF blunder in the episode. Sure, what happened is a bit of a dunce move, but to me it just sounds like Littlefinger is so confident that he can mouth off to Cersei in private because he knows that she will just threaten him back. Cersei's craziness doesn't really blossom until after ASOS, for obvious reasons. I think he could predict that nothing would come of it. Littlefinger knows that Cersei needs him, and Cersei knows that he needs her family. I haven't seen the scene so this is of course baseless speculation, but as it stands I am not really too worried about it. I don't think Littlefinger's character comes out too scathed.

Hopefully not. Though as Ran mentioned, it does sound like the whole scene was invented just to use the

"knowledge is power" vs "power is power" lines.

I suppose I should wait to see how it plays out, but right now those lines don't even sound very good and the whole situation seems pretty heavy handed. Littlefinger does act boldly throughout the series, but it always seems like opportunities that he knows he can get away with his actions--showing Tyrion the dagger, etc. From what it sounds like here, he somehow manages to get one upped by Cersei in a situation that he provokes and gains nothing from. Hopefully it plays better than it sounds, but I am somewhat worried that the writers are trying to spice up characters and situations to make everything more dramatic. For instance, more Littlefinger (in ACOK he's actually not around that much), Cersei acting remorseful (the "sins" line in the trailer), more political intrigue in Qarth, Robb's big romance. I need to wait before I judge it, but I feel like the writers might be trying too hard to make everything big.

[Jamie Lannister]

I love how people are so sure of what these characters would do in private (before even seeing the scene in question), even though Littlefinger has never been a POV, and Cersei only became one much later. Yay for fandom! :ack:

On the other hand, it's just out of character. Littlefinger's majesty is that he's everyone's friend, that he knows the line and quite deliberately treads on the safe side -- he managed to incite a war while concurrently getting into the good graces of pretty much every king, queen and lord he was manipulating, and was rewarded massively by each of them for his efforts. It's like managing to play off the UN against each other, all the while being rewarded by each nation you're backstabbing, because they value your input and "loyalty."

That guy wouldn't do something this stupid. :P

[Linda]

Out of curiosity, what about Cersei's portrayal did you dislike?

I think there is very little of book Cersei in Lena Headey's portrayal of her. She comes across as bitter, bored and dour rather than fiery and arrogant. A rather moth-eaten lioness. The scene with Robert exemplifies all that was terrible about it; her asking him if there was ever a chance for their marriage ... it just has nothing to do with book Cersei for me.

On the whole, I just find that to be the worst casting on the show; most of the other casting for S1 was pretty darn amazing, but that one was way off for me.

[Ran]

Cersei's craziness doesn't really blossom until after ASOS, for obvious reasons.

Littlefinger is the one who informs Ned that Cersei had twin bastards of Robert's drowned, and their mother sold into slavery.

He knows she's perfectly capable of unreasonable violence, even in AGoT. Lets just say that in the scene, he sure doesn't look like he figures he's safe from getting killed.

[teemo]

Oh, Ran, every time someone brings me some hope, you slam me back down to reality. :crying:

[Ran]

You know, I don't want to over-do it. It's one scene that feels poorly handled, an expedient way to get some sort of visual and/or theme across, which doesn't mean they're necessarily going to do that all the time. Later scenes with Littlefinger are largely more like what you'd expect. Though there is another bit that feels uncharacteristic in the fourth episode, but in quite a different way.

[teemo]

Yeah, I realized you wrote that in your review as well. Is there any way you can expand on that?? Or maybe that will just crush my hopes even more :crying:

[Padraig]

He knows she's perfectly capable of unreasonable violence, even in AGoT. Lets just say that in the scene, he sure doesn't look like he figures he's safe from getting killed.

Cersei in aGoT is capable of unreasonably violence. My point was about Cersei in S1. She is less unstable in the TV series (so far anyhow). Until I see this scene for real, it seems to be mainly about people acting differently because Cersei has changed. Rather than they have changed. I accepted that Cersei was different a year ago.

You can go round and round on this. Obviously LF has to look scared or he would be overplaying his hand. If Cersei thought he was that cocksure, she would be sure he was a threat. So you can still easily argue that he simply took a chance and it didn't come off. The only way to know otherwise is to read his mind or have him explain his motives to somebody else later on.

Rather than saying he gains nothing from taking that chance, one should focus on what did he lose from it. And I imagine he lost nothing and he might have gained something subtle. You can only say it is stupid if he loses something from it.

I like the "knowledge is power" vs "power is power" line in itself anyhow. While Cersei wasn't particularly remorseful in aCoK, she does display vulnerability during the Battle of Blackwater. When doom seemed imminent, I could see that vulnerability be translated into some regret. Although, unvoiced.

[Ran]

Afraid not. I suspect that it'll bother you less than the first episode thing with Cersei.

Pod,

The unreasonable violence is also mentioned in the first season. This Cersei may be more "together", but given that she's capable of threatening the life of the master of coin on a whim, this was (realistically) something Littlefinger should have known would happen.

You have to see the scene. I know you want to somehow find an excuse for the writers, but there's really none when you see the performance, and the way Littlefinger looks after Cersei left the scene. It's not his acting or playing a part. It's a clumsy bit of writing, nothing more or less. It's not a good scene.

[ServantOnIce]

So did you see the added Littlefinger and Catelyn scene??

[Lord Barristan]

I personally didn't really like Carcetti's portrayal of Littlefinger at all... In the novels, I found my self chuckling or in some cases laughing out loud whenever Littlefinger is around... Especially with Ned in GAME and with tyrion in CLASH. Some of the stuf in the show just wasn't delivered well, or at least the way I thought it should have been delivered. And some of his best lines didn't even make it in the show... one of my favorites was “It’s not murder I find amusing, Lord Stark, it’s you. You rule like a man dancing on rotten ice. I daresay you will make a noble splash. I believe I heard the first crack this morning.”

I also didn't like Cersei. I agree she seemed bored and bitter... I also thought they should have found a better looking actress who was actually blond. Not saying I don't think Lena Hedly is pretty, but I expected Cersei to be super, super hot, and considering how important her being blond is to the whole story of the first book, I thought they should have cast a natural blond. I was also not a big fan of the added scenes with Cersei... Especially the one with cat, and the one with Robert was nothing special.

I do consider myself a purist and I haven't liked many of the "added" scenes not in the books.

I still love the show, I'm downloading it as we speak... but i just don't think any liberties the writers have taken have been good. Whether its adding a scene that is just out of character (another one that comes to mind is Ser Barristan talking to Ned and saying "what the mad king did to your father was just awful." Ser Bold would never have said anything like that, sorry D&D!) or just completely changing the nature of a character like Renly or Cersei, I haven't liked too much.

[Dennai]

You can go round and round on this. Obviously LF has to look scared or he would be overplaying his hand. If Cersei thought he was that cocksure, she would be sure he was a threat. So you can still easily argue that he simply took a chance and it didn't come off. The only way to know otherwise is to read his mind or have him explain his motives to somebody else later on.

Here it comes another lesbian scene with Ros. Yay!

[teemo]

Here it comes another lesbian scene with Ros. Yay!

Speaking of Ros....I wonder if she's going to be a "major character" like some site suggested :ack: If she is just naked in the background half the show that's fine with me (more than fine), I just hope she keeps her mouth shut as much as possible :)

And thanks for that little bit of (probably unintended) comfort, Ran!

[Hyper]

I think there is very little of book Cersei in Lena Headey's portrayal of her. She comes across as bitter, bored and dour rather than fiery and arrogant. A rather moth-eaten lioness. The scene with Robert exemplifies all that was terrible about it; her asking him if there was ever a chance for their marriage ... it just has nothing to do with book Cersei for me.

One thing that needs to be *very much* kept in mind in these discussions is the very basic format of ASOIAF. Unreliable narrators. Where do we see most of book-AGOT-Cersei from? You got it... Starks. While there are obviously elements of truth to all POV's, you have to take all of them with a slight grain of salt. Yes, even the "good guy POVs".

That's what many "purists" seem to miss. The show is not a POV based show. Do you really find it shocking that a more 'objective' view of Cersei (for example) would differ from Eddards opinion of Cersei? The show creators can use (and have used) the knowledge of future books to help round out many characters into more believable forms. Cersei in AFFC revealed that she was hopeful that her marriage to Robert could have work out. So why not bring some of those elements forward ?

So that is why I find it curious when some get up in arms about the Cersei portrayal not matching their minds view of the character based on limited and biased information that the novels tend to provide. If GRRM has showed us anything, it is that we should expect complexity - new information can always cause us to look at people in a new way. (Prime examples: Brandon Stark perhaps not being such a nice guy, and Rhaegar perhaps not being such a bad guy) This doesn't mean I find the Cersei portrayal in S1 perfect - oh no - but IMO it is a more compelling version of that character than the AGOT version.

[ICE CROW]

You people are crazy, as much as i want to read this stuff i don't want to spoil anything. no matter what happens good or bad i wanna go in fresh :).

[Chelly]

My addiction got the best of me and I caved in an read it. The only things that bugs is that they moved Cressen's prolouge from the beginning. I like the prolouges as they are, but what can you do? I'm sure its gonna be fine, though. Is it Sunday, yet?