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What is Quaithe?


Lady Hodor

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I have a feeling that this mystery might soon be given ample coverage in the World book. Elio and Linda said something about being surprised how much GRRM was going to be revealing with respect to Aerys and Tywin. I think they were talking about certain theories being confirmed or debunked regarding these two.

Interesting! And, like many others, I can't wait to get my hands on the World of Ice and Fire!

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I have a feeling that this mystery might soon be given ample coverage in the World book. Elio and Linda said something about being surprised how much GRRM was going to be revealing with respect to Aerys and Tywin. I think they were talking about certain theories being confirmed or debunked regarding these two.

I can't wait! :drool:

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  • 3 weeks later...

I have a feeling that this mystery might soon be given ample coverage in the World book. Elio and Linda said something about being surprised how much GRRM was going to be revealing with respect to Aerys and Tywin. I think they were talking about certain theories being confirmed or debunked regarding these two.

I hope this gives more insight about what happened at Tywin's wedding.

"However, the relationship between Aerys and Tywin was always complicated. When he was still a prince, Aerys had developed a crush on Joanna Lannister, who was to marry her cousin Tywin. Aerys was present at the wedding and drank too much during the feast, leading to him joking that it was a great pity that the lord's right to the first night had been abolished and to taking certain liberties during the bedding. It is said that Tywin did not forget Aerys' behavior."

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  • 2 months later...

She is a hallucination caused by Dany's Paranoid Schizophrenia.

So Jorah, Jhogo, Aggo, Rakharo, Irri, Jhiqui, Xaro Xhoan Daxos, Pyat Pree, and all of Dany's khalasar must have imagined her too then, huh?

The very notion that Quaithe is a figment of Dany's imagination is completely contradicted by the actual books. In particular, A Clash of Kings contradicts this idea because Quaithe is physically present. A Feast for Crows introduces the glass candles (although they may have been referenced before that point) and it's clear that in A Dance with Dragons that Quaithe is using one to communicate with Dany.

It really is remarkable how many who post on this forum have seemingly never read A Clash of Kings.

I believe it to be selective memory. Anything that contradicts Dany's "madness" (other than almost everything) is conveniently ignored. I'm all for coming up with interesting and out there theories (I have a few of my own) but if something is completely contradicted by the books, it probably isn't going on...
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What is Quaithe?

Baby, predict me...

predict me...

oh, more!

(awesome beat)

I don't know,

why you're out there

I dreamed about you

but you didn't care

South to go North,

East to go West,

dunno where to go...

What is Quaithe?

Baby, just teach me!

Just teach me!

Some more!

:D

Oh dear... :lol:
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  • 2 months later...

I have a feeling that this mystery might soon be given ample coverage in the World book. Elio and Linda said something about being surprised how much GRRM was going to be revealing with respect to Aerys and Tywin. I think they were talking about certain theories being confirmed or debunked regarding these two.

Since the book is out: Did it give any info about Quaithe?

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I just saw a thread linking Quaithe to being Rhaegar Targaryen, which was a bold theory but they lacked the evidence supporting the Mance Rhaegar theory. In the theories page everyone can find the theory and read all the evidence supporting Rhaegar being alive. I would love for this to happen, but I'm not buying into it just yet....I'd love to have a Rhaegar POV chapter but I have to see it to believe it. The main stretch at Rhaegar being at least alive is in AFFC ch. 31 ... the Elder Brother at the Quiet Isle is talking with Brienne and Ser Hyle Hunt about the things that float to the Quiet Isle from upstream on the Trident:

We have found silver cups and iron pots, sacks of wool and bolts of silk, rusted helms and shining swords... aye, and rubies.”

That interested Ser Hyle. “Rhaegar’s rubies?”

“It may be. Who can say? The battle was long leagues from here, but the river is tireless and patient. Six have been found. We are all waiting for the seventh.



we all know that Mel uses rubies to glamour Rattleshirt/Mance in DwD ... so the rubies on Rhaegar's breastplate at the Battle of the Trident could have been a glamour and it wasn't really him, giving him time to escape. The 7th ruby would have been the ruby holding the glamour in place, and regardless of whether the body was cremated or just never found, most would have believed Rhaegar to be dead. if Mance IS Rhaegar, then Rhaegar himself would be involved in using rubies multiple times to glamour himself or others in his story arc.

There are a few other subtle hints in the M=R theory, but aside from that it's a safe bet to just believe for now that it's not true, and Rhaegar isn't Quaithe as well.

However, reading the initial post, it really did get me thinking. Who is Quaithe and what is going on with her?

Quaithe (Rhaegar) wears a mask ( to conceal his silver hair). Quaithe can see the future (and so can rhaegar from his visions).
Using the glass candle, (Quaithe) contacts dany and gives her good advice and warnings.
The reason he doesn't want her to find his true identiity is because He wants Dany to sit the iron throne (and not make a situation with more than 3 targaryens)


Quaithe does see into the future, and even though Rhaegar was mentioned to have prophetic dreams and/or visions of the future...his interpretation of the future could be wrong. It has been shown with Melisandre serving Stannis because she believes him to be AAR, and it is very strongly hinted that Stannis could be anything but AAR.

I'm not buying into Rhaegar being Quaithe for one main reason:

If Quaithe is an alternate persona for somebody then Rhaegar would have to be a Faceless Man to turn himself into a female. I haven't seen any reason to believe that FM can change gender, Arya has been Cat of the Canals, and the Ugly Little Girl. both female faces. Jaqen was his first face, and then the face he changed into when Arya was leaving Harrenhal with the hook nose and the scar, which could very well be the Alchemist in AFFC prologue. There is also theories that he could be Pate, the boy that supposedly died in the prologue of AFFC, who spoke the last words of the book. All of them male faces.

Arya has also been Mercy, another female character in her arsenal.

Rhaegar could also possibly glamour himself as a woman, which would add another use of a ruby as glamour into his storyline, but again...I don't recall someone have a change of gender with a glamour. It's been thought that Melisandre is glamouring a younger version of herself. Mance held a glamour with the spearwives as Abel the Bard. Mance and Rattleshirt switched bodies so to speak, with Rattleshirt getting forcefully glamoured as Mance Rayder, he even tried to spill the beans about the switch:

They’d bent them and twisted them around and
through each other to weave a wooden lattice, then hung it high above a deep pit filled with logs,
leaves, and kindling.

The wildling king recoiled from the sight. “No,” he cried, “mercy. This is not right, I’m not the
king, they—”

Ser Godry gave a pull on the rope. The King-Beyond-the-Wall had no choice but to stumble after
him, the rope choking off his words.

Now if Quaithe is a unique character, then she has to be in kahoots with the Citadel. Somebody told Alleras and Archmaester Marwyn to swoop up Samwell at the Seneschal's Court. There could be others who have access to glass candles, it has just never been revealed. if Quaithe turns out to be an alternate persona to another major character, then I believe that it is a female character either glamouring herself, changing her face as a FM, or just wearing a mask while using the glass candle.

It seems a bit wonky to have a FM change their face into a face covered in a mask that only shows the eyes of the face beneath. the other two options are open for theories, but it seems logical to think that Quaithe is somebody like Melisandre who is a follower of R'hllor.

Red Priests can use rubies as glamour, if Quaithe even needed it considering the mask. They can also gaze into the flames, to see visions of the future. This fits all the criteria for Quaithe and her actions. Quaithe could be a different red priest, maybe one that hasn't been introduced yet. She could be Melisandre herself, though I highly doubt it. It would be cool if Quaithe was another greenseer, aside from Bloodraven or Bran, who can see visions of past and future at will.

Regardless of who she is, I do believe the Citadel has someone who can see the future or at least have prophetic dreams that they have to attempt to interpret rather than just have a vivid picture of what is literally going to happen. We see in Melisandre's POV chapter in DwD that she is asking questions constantly as she is gazing into her flames and having visions. Bran, as we glimpse him greenseeing in his last chapter in DwD, has no clue what is going on, can't really tell if its past present or future he is watching, and it overwhelms him...being a noob and all.

I know the Citadel is going to play a larger part in the last two books, and I'm sure alot of these questions will be answered early on, but I wonder how legit Quaithe's visions are and if she is interpreting them correctly. Nobody is perfect it seems, especially at trying to predict the future. It seems though that alot of visions are vague enough sometimes to at least prepare for whatever they see. Like, say....a bunch of floating skulls around Jon Snow. HE JUST WOULDN'T LISTEN TO HER DAMMIT!

aaaaanywayyy, my main question here is: will Quaithe...who is known to have the only technology wildly magical enough to appear as a hologram across the world (glass candle) be convincing maesters at the Citadel of certain prophecies and visions causing them to act accordingly and will it work out, sort of boosting those who fit the prophecy itself, or will it have negative consequences? It seemed that in that short last chapter of AFFC we see Marwyn claiming he knows much and more, pretty much confirms the claim, and after talking to Sam he hurries on a boat to start a journey towards the very person Quaithe is assisting in a roundabout way with the use of prophetic riddles (Dany)

They are obviously attempting to fulfill certain prophecies, and Quaithe is the one literally assisting Dany from across the world via glass candle with advice on how to succeed. If Quaithe believes Dany to be AAR (like Mel/Stannis) then she obviously wants the hero to be there when the Long Night occurs, to strike down the Great Other and start the prophetic cycle all over again. but why?

If Quaithe can indeed be linked to the Citadel, then there are subtle hints and a theory on here about the Citadel trying to eradicate magic altogether. How do you eradicate the power of the magic force in Planetos? Induce the prophecy foretold to bring an end to it. Assist the prophetic suspects as much as they can so they defeat their adversary's quicker. It seems that throughout the series, let alone the history of ASOIAF itself, the magic is slowly building and building, getting stronger and stronger as time progresses, until it pops and dragons are flying everywhere destroying stuff. The Others break free and are wreaking havoc again during the Long Night. Red priests are resurrecting people and lighting people on fire. There are wargs, many of them introduced in the Stark family, warging into their wolves. Bran warging into humans as time progresses, possibly into dragons before the series is done. This magic is sewn deep into the pages of the most recent book, and once the climax is reached and the "happy" ending begins? I think that magic will cease to exist in humans again, and they will live peaceful...at least without the use of magic and prophecy. We all do not know what the magic force itself is and how it can be stopped...but it is obviously an entity by itself and Quaithe is just another pawn in the game to try and control it, before magic acts as a nuke and destroys the entire planet. Obviously some form of magic destroyed Valyria, imagine Valyria as our Chernobyl. Nuclear meltdown baby. Now what is the fear of destroying our own planet with nuclear power? nuclear war...in Planetos the Citadel might as well be the U.N., trying to control the magic force as people are able to tap into it themselves and use it against other people, the Others and R'hllor being the most evident. Could have the possibility of building into a world ending situation, at least I hope so. I applaud the Citadel for trying at least.

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I just saw a thread linking Quaithe to being Rhaegar Targaryen, which was a bold theory but they lacked the evidence supporting the Mance Rhaegar theory. In the theories page everyone can find the theory and read all the evidence supporting Rhaegar being alive. I would love for this to happen, but I'm not buying into it just yet....I'd love to have a Rhaegar POV chapter but I have to see it to believe it. The main stretch at Rhaegar being at least alive is in AFFC ch. 31 ... the Elder Brother at the Quiet Isle is talking with Brienne and Ser Hyle Hunt about the things that float to the Quiet Isle from upstream on the Trident:

we all know that Mel uses rubies to glamour Rattleshirt/Mance in DwD ... so the rubies on Rhaegar's breastplate at the Battle of the Trident could have been a glamour and it wasn't really him, giving him time to escape. The 7th ruby would have been the ruby holding the glamour in place, and regardless of whether the body was cremated or just never found, most would have believed Rhaegar to be dead. if Mance IS Rhaegar, then Rhaegar himself would be involved in using rubies multiple times to glamour himself or others in his story arc.

There are a few other subtle hints in the M=R theory, but aside from that it's a safe bet to just believe for now that it's not true, and Rhaegar isn't Quaithe as well.

However, reading the initial post, it really did get me thinking. Who is Quaithe and what is going on with her?

Quaithe does see into the future, and even though Rhaegar was mentioned to have prophetic dreams and/or visions of the future...his interpretation of the future could be wrong. It has been shown with Melisandre serving Stannis because she believes him to be AAR, and it is very strongly hinted that Stannis could be anything but AAR.

I'm not buying into Rhaegar being Quaithe for one main reason:

If Quaithe is an alternate persona for somebody then Rhaegar would have to be a Faceless Man to turn himself into a female. I haven't seen any reason to believe that FM can change gender, Arya has been Cat of the Canals, and the Ugly Little Girl. both female faces. Jaqen was his first face, and then the face he changed into when Arya was leaving Harrenhal with the hook nose and the scar, which could very well be the Alchemist in AFFC prologue. There is also theories that he could be Pate, the boy that supposedly died in the prologue of AFFC, who spoke the last words of the book. All of them male faces.

Arya has also been Mercy, another female character in her arsenal.

Rhaegar could also possibly glamour himself as a woman, which would add another use of a ruby as glamour into his storyline, but again...I don't recall someone have a change of gender with a glamour. It's been thought that Melisandre is glamouring a younger version of herself. Mance held a glamour with the spearwives as Abel the Bard. Mance and Rattleshirt switched bodies so to speak, with Rattleshirt getting forcefully glamoured as Mance Rayder, he even tried to spill the beans about the switch:

Now if Quaithe is a unique character, then she has to be in kahoots with the Citadel. Somebody told Alleras and Archmaester Marwyn to swoop up Samwell at the Seneschal's Court. There could be others who have access to glass candles, it has just never been revealed. if Quaithe turns out to be an alternate persona to another major character, then I believe that it is a female character either glamouring herself, changing her face as a FM, or just wearing a mask while using the glass candle.

It seems a bit wonky to have a FM change their face into a face covered in a mask that only shows the eyes of the face beneath. the other two options are open for theories, but it seems logical to think that Quaithe is somebody like Melisandre who is a follower of R'hllor.

Red Priests can use rubies as glamour, if Quaithe even needed it considering the mask. They can also gaze into the flames, to see visions of the future. This fits all the criteria for Quaithe and her actions. Quaithe could be a different red priest, maybe one that hasn't been introduced yet. She could be Melisandre herself, though I highly doubt it. It would be cool if Quaithe was another greenseer, aside from Bloodraven or Bran, who can see visions of past and future at will.

Regardless of who she is, I do believe the Citadel has someone who can see the future or at least have prophetic dreams that they have to attempt to interpret rather than just have a vivid picture of what is literally going to happen. We see in Melisandre's POV chapter in DwD that she is asking questions constantly as she is gazing into her flames and having visions. Bran, as we glimpse him greenseeing in his last chapter in DwD, has no clue what is going on, can't really tell if its past present or future he is watching, and it overwhelms him...being a noob and all.

I know the Citadel is going to play a larger part in the last two books, and I'm sure alot of these questions will be answered early on, but I wonder how legit Quaithe's visions are and if she is interpreting them correctly. Nobody is perfect it seems, especially at trying to predict the future. It seems though that alot of visions are vague enough sometimes to at least prepare for whatever they see. Like, say....a bunch of floating skulls around Jon Snow. HE JUST WOULDN'T LISTEN TO HER DAMMIT!

aaaaanywayyy, my main question here is: will Quaithe...who is known to have the only technology wildly magical enough to appear as a hologram across the world (glass candle) be convincing maesters at the Citadel of certain prophecies and visions causing them to act accordingly and will it work out, sort of boosting those who fit the prophecy itself, or will it have negative consequences? It seemed that in that short last chapter of AFFC we see Marwyn claiming he knows much and more, pretty much confirms the claim, and after talking to Sam he hurries on a boat to start a journey towards the very person Quaithe is assisting in a roundabout way with the use of prophetic riddles (Dany)

They are obviously attempting to fulfill certain prophecies, and Quaithe is the one literally assisting Dany from across the world via glass candle with advice on how to succeed. If Quaithe believes Dany to be AAR (like Mel/Stannis) then she obviously wants the hero to be there when the Long Night occurs, to strike down the Great Other and start the prophetic cycle all over again. but why?

If Quaithe can indeed be linked to the Citadel, then there are subtle hints and a theory on here about the Citadel trying to eradicate magic altogether. How do you eradicate the power of the magic force in Planetos? Induce the prophecy foretold to bring an end to it. Assist the prophetic suspects as much as they can so they defeat their adversary's quicker. It seems that throughout the series, let alone the history of ASOIAF itself, the magic is slowly building and building, getting stronger and stronger as time progresses, until it pops and dragons are flying everywhere destroying stuff. The Others break free and are wreaking havoc again during the Long Night. Red priests are resurrecting people and lighting people on fire. There are wargs, many of them introduced in the Stark family, warging into their wolves. Bran warging into humans as time progresses, possibly into dragons before the series is done. This magic is sewn deep into the pages of the most recent book, and once the climax is reached and the "happy" ending begins? I think that magic will cease to exist in humans again, and they will live peaceful...at least without the use of magic and prophecy. We all do not know what the magic force itself is and how it can be stopped...but it is obviously an entity by itself and Quaithe is just another pawn in the game to try and control it, before magic acts as a nuke and destroys the entire planet. Obviously some form of magic destroyed Valyria, imagine Valyria as our Chernobyl. Nuclear meltdown baby. Now what is the fear of destroying our own planet with nuclear power? nuclear war...in Planetos the Citadel might as well be the U.N., trying to control the magic force as people are able to tap into it themselves and use it against other people, the Others and R'hllor being the most evident. Could have the possibility of building into a world ending situation, at least I hope so. I applaud the Citadel for trying at least.

But remember the waif in the HoBaW? She said she was a very old woman, but she looks like a child. FM can do anythign I suppose

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