Dunk's Father

[udpaco13]

I just finished the 3 Dunk and Egg stories. First off, I loved them. Very easy reads and have entertaining stories. If you have not read these, there will be some minor spoilers included.

The one question I have is regarding Dunk's father. In each of the stories we have different people inquire about his father. Dunk does not know him but believe at one point he may have been sent to the wall.

In ADWD Bran eats some Weir Sap/Jorgen Blood (depending on what you believe), and then has crazy dreams/visions. One of these visions was of a large Knight kissing a lady. Many people have speculated that this knight is actually Dunk, and the girl was old Nan. Further more, I have seen many people theorize that Hodor is actually Nan's child, and the father may be Dunk. This seems logical due to the size of Hodor. I am not convinced due to the time line, and Hodor's age, but lets assume that the large knight is Dunk, he hooked up with not so old Nan, and they had a huge baby Hodor.

Several times throughout ASoIaF people have claimed Hodor has Giants blood. Most noticeably was Osha, who says something like she will bet anything Hodor has Giants blood in him.

So my question is, was Dunk's father part giant? Is there any mention of any Nights Watch Brother who was said to be huge that could be his father? If his father was part Giant, he must have been from beyond the Wall. How would Dunk have got to Kings Landing, if his father was from beyond the wall?

Much of this may be RaFO, because I heard they were planning several more Dunk and Egg stories. I was just not sure if this had been brought up and discussed previously. Please let me know if I am missing something, or if I am just grasping at straws.

[Jem]

I believe that Hodor is Old Nan's grandson (or even great-grandson), not her son. But yes, I have heard too the theory that Dunk and Nan hook up in the next book and make a baby (presumably Hodor's parent or grandparent).

As to Dunks parents, I believe that Dunk originates from the streets of Kings Landing. If we ever find out anything about his parents, I expect that they would be simple, poor folk from KL. If Dunk's father was ever at the Wall (I can't remember this being mentioned, but it has been ages since I read the books), I would imagine that he went there after Dunk was conceived.

I suppose that if Dunk's father did originate from the North, he may have been a travelling recruiter for the NW, like Yoren, which could give him a reason for being in KL. Though I don't recall any mentions of an historical figure at the wall who was part giant. Can humans and giants interbreed? I can't remember, but I would imagine that the female would have to be the giant and the male a human, because I don't think a human woman would survive birthing a half-giant child.

[Sword Of Mid Afternoon]

Yeah, maybe great grandson.... Hodor is a stableboy

As we know, Dunk & Egg tales occurred about a century prior to AGoT.

[Black Crow]

I have known stableboys who were marginally younger than Old Nan :cool4: . Its a job rather than a physical description.

[Lykos]

I think Hodor is about 30 to 40, so he would be Old Nan´s grandson, but this is purely based on my impression I got from Hodor´s physical strength and condition, he could also be a very fit 65 year old. Dunk tells Egg, "There was a pot shop in King’s Landing where I used to sell them ratts and pigeons for the brown. The cook always claimed my father was some thief or cutpurse. ‘Most like I saw him hanged,’ he used to tell me, ‘but maybe they just sent him to the Wall."

[kissdbyfire]

According to the appendix, Hodor is Old Nan's great-grandson.

[lmanion]

I think D&E stories are roughly 85 years before AGoT and Hodor is anything from a grandson to great-great grandson of old Nan. Dunk believes his father is at the wall, I think we will find out a few clues about some 'present day' things in Westeros in the next instalment of D&E.

[jon rr stark]

If Duncan has a son with old nan do you think he would just leave him at winterfell. He doesn't strike me as the type of fellow to abandon them in the books.

[kissdbyfire]

If Duncan has a son with old nan do you think he would just leave him at winterfell. He doesn't strike me as the type of fellow to abandon them in the books.

Duncan and Egg wouldn't have stayed at Winterfell for months and months. My guess is he wouldn't even know about it at all.

[jon rr stark]

Duncan and Egg wouldn't have stayed at Winterfell for months and months. My guess is he wouldn't even know about it at all.

good point. Nan did have a son he was mentioned somewhere in the books I think he may have died. I cant remember the reference does anyone know?

[Jayce]

Don't read too much in to the word boy.

Up until about the mid-15th century, all children were referred to as girls, boys were called "knave girls" and girls were called "gay girls". The word "boy" originally meant "servant".

As Black Crow said it is a position rather then a physical description.

[kissdbyfire]

good point. Nan did have a son he was mentioned somewhere in the books I think he may have died. I cant remember the reference does anyone know?

She lost both her sons during the war (Robert's Rebellion), and her grandson during Balon Greyjoy's rebellion. Her daughters got married, moved away and died. Hodor is all the family she has left.

[Knight of the Teabags]

If Duncan has a son with old nan do you think he would just leave him at winterfell. He doesn't strike me as the type of fellow to abandon them in the books.

Actually I can see this being another example of GRRM showing us how often the right answer to a moral dilemma isn't always the one we initially think it is. The thing is at the end of the day all Dunk has to offer a potential wife and child is the road, hard salt beef and cold hedges because he can't just settle down and become a Stark household retainer to play happy families because he owes Egg at the bare minimum to personally safely return him to his father's house at Summer Hall. Whereas Nan gets a plum position (we know she started out as a wet nurse for the Starks - which puts her in direct contact with the Stark family) and her child would benefit from a warm stable home, I can certainly see Dunk reasoning after a great deal of anguish that he has to choose his duty onto the young boy in his charge (who is unlikely to survive the long journey back south without his protection) over his lover and unborn child (who we know will flourish at Winterfell even if the father is long gone). Of course we already know Dunk will always ultimately choose Egg (because we know from Jaime's white book reading he ultimately ends up as Lord Commander of the Kingsguard under Aegon V), so we know the destination but the journey is always worth reading about.

It does fit with Dunk's story because his love affairs ending bitter sweetly is a strong theme as is love verses duty throughout the short stories.

[Red Lion of Castamere]

Well there is also the theory that Brienne is somehow descended from Dunk due to her massive size for a woman and the shield that she remembers from her armory on Tarth. I would think that one of the theories may be true, but both? Not sure about that, as Dunk isn't really the type to sleep around and father children all over the realm.

[RobertOfTheHouseBaratheon]

Well there is also the theory that Brienne is somehow descended from Dunk due to her massive size for a woman and the shield that she remembers from her armory on Tarth. I would think that one of the theories may be true, but both? Not sure about that, as Dunk isn't really the type to sleep around and father children all over the realm.

Yeah I thought Brienne was descendent from the lady he slept with in the second story. That he got her pregnant and the child was raised as son/daughter of that noble woman she married.

I've heard Grenn is a descendant as well.

[Sir Tobi]

Can humans and giants interbreed? I can't remember, but I would imagine that the female would have to be the giant and the male a human, because I don't think a human woman would survive birthing a half-giant child.

Osha tells us, that male humans can get a halfbreed by a female giant.

So here´s the solution: We know, that Aegon the Unworthy put his ... in every female beeing, that he could lay hands on. So he impregnated a female giantress.

Dunc originates from that child (either he is the child himself or one generation remote) and ends up in the gutters of Kingslanding.

So not only Dunc is a secret Targ (and probably (half)brother to Bloodraven *g*) but Brienne and Hodor are secret Targs too.

[Lady Tierneigh]

So not only Dunc is a secret Targ (and probably (half)brother to Bloodraven *g*) but Brienne and Hodor are secret Targs too.

I don't think Dunk was a secret Targ - after reading ADwD I think he was a bastard Blackwood. That would give him the blood of petty kings, and make him a relation of Bloodraven on Bloodraven's mother's side.

Here's why I think so: In The Hedge Knight, we're given the background that Ser Arlan of Pennytree finds Dunk in the gutters of Flea Bottom in KL.

in ADwD (the wiki tells me it's Chapter 48) Jaime is settling the matter of the Bracken's seige of the Blackwood's seat, Raventree Hall. He then visits Pennytree, which sits between the Teats, in the middle of lands that have apparently gone back and forth between the Backwoods and Brackens over the years as they take turns gaining the upper hand. He's told some of the history of the dispute and the area by the Blackwood he's taken as a hostage, young Hoster, who's described as "almost seven feet of legs, shins and elbows".

So, let us suppose that this unusual height runs in the Blackwood family, and that Pennytree was in Blackwood hands in Ser Arlan's time, making him a Blackwood vassal, and most likely familiar with the Blackwoods by sight if nothing else. Now let us also suppose that Lord Blackwood enjoyed the pleasures to be found in King's Landing from time to time when attending court.

This then gives us a strong reason for Ser Arlan to pluck Dunk out of the Flea Bottom gutter and give him an honorable place as a squire - if to Ser Arlan's eye, Dunk's size and looks clearly marked him as having Blackwood blood.

[Elric of Melnibone]

. Can humans and giants interbreed? I can't remember, but I would imagine that the female would have to be the giant and the male a human, because I don't think a human woman would survive birthing a half-giant child.

That's how 2 different dog breeds of different size are mated-- you always pick the larger breed to be the female/mother. You can breed a male chihahua with a female rottweiler physically.

[The guy from the Vale]

I don't think Dunk was a secret Targ - after reading ADwD I think he was a bastard Blackwood. That would give him the blood of petty kings, and make him a relation of Bloodraven on Bloodraven's mother's side.

Here's why I think so: In The Hedge Knight, we're given the background that Ser Arlan of Pennytree finds Dunk in the gutters of Flea Bottom in KL.

in ADwD (the wiki tells me it's Chapter 48) Jaime is settling the matter of the Bracken's seige of the Blackwood's seat, Raventree Hall. He then visits Pennytree, which sits between the Teats, in the middle of lands that have apparently gone back and forth between the Backwoods and Brackens over the years as they take turns gaining the upper hand. He's told some of the history of the dispute and the area by the Blackwood he's taken as a hostage, young Hoster, who's described as "almost seven feet of legs, shins and elbows".

So, let us suppose that this unusual height runs in the Blackwood family, and that Pennytree was in Blackwood hands in Ser Arlan's time, making him a Blackwood vassal, and most likely familiar with the Blackwoods by sight if nothing else. Now let us also suppose that Lord Blackwood enjoyed the pleasures to be found in King's Landing from time to time when attending court.

This then gives us a strong reason for Ser Arlan to pluck Dunk out of the Flea Bottom gutter and give him an honorable place as a squire - if to Ser Arlan's eye, Dunk's size and looks clearly marked him as having Blackwood blood.

Nice idea. I can certainly see that being true. That said, Bloodraven is another Blackwood bastard, and he was the smallest and physically weakest of the Great Bastards of Aegon the Unworthy. So... it could really go either way. I could also see Dunk as a Bracken bastard, which would of course make him a cousin to Bittersteel...

[Lady Tierneigh]

Bloodraven is another Blackwood bastard, and he was the smallest and physically weakest of the Great Bastards of Aegon the Unworthy.

True enough, though I had been ascribing Bloodraven's slightness to his Targ side, as Targs are often rather slim and delicate. And the only description we have of Missy Blackwood is that she was beautiful, slim, and on the flat-chested side.

And yes, Dunk could just as easily be a bastard Bracken by my reasoning. I just have a feeling, though, based on GRRM's specific mention of a couple of very tall Blackwoods (Lord Tytos Blackwood is also described as quite tall).