How would you rate episode 201?

[A Redeemed Hound]

I was pretty happy with the 1st episode this season. It's the best they can do with only 10 episodes to work with. HBO kind of dropped the ball IMO on that. Give them 15 episodes!!!!

My one big issue was that I felt Craster was horribly miscast. The guy looked nothing like his description in the books. He looked more Lordly than Commander Mormont.

Other than that I loved the episode. Doing a great job. I hope that after next episode things stop jumping around so much and get into a better flow.

[dark sister]

Why do you watch it at all if you don't like it? Is your time so worthless that you can spend it on watching bad things, as long as they are free, and then spend time writing immature posts about it? What's the point of that?

And if you're going to be so hostile towards the show, at least have the decency to look up the facts, like that the character that played Old Nan died last year. Some people are quick to throw demands of others but obviously demands little of themselves.

Um, I watched it because I LIKED season 1. I watched the opening to season 2 in hopes that it would be as good.

I'm sorry you think that it is immature that I disagree with women using "alternative means" to get parts in shows. I don't like invented characters, and I don't like that they cut two of the most important characters to Bran's storyline.

Oh give me a break, I am sad that the woman who played Old Nan died, but they could have gotten a replacement, an alternative woman who was around the same age. Because it doesn't make sense for Osha to know about dragons. White walkers, yes. But Old Nan was just old enough to understand and remember the last dragons...she's from Dunk's time, I believe.

Btw, your comment on my time being worthless wasn't immature at all....

I just refuse to pay for it anymore. Personally, I prefer the books and will stick with them. If I feel like watching the next episode and giving it another chance, I will. It doesn't mean I can't be sorely disappointed with what they did in the beginning episode.

Also, if you reply to this and try to get into some kind of board war, I'm not going to acknowledge it. I hate them and they ARE a waste of time.

Edited April 4, 2012 by dark sister

[Tywin's bastard]

Um, I watched it because I LIKED season 1. I watched the opening to season 2 in hopes that it would be as good.

I'm sorry you think that it is immature that I disagree with women using "alternative means" to get parts in shows. I don't like invented characters, and I don't like that they cut two of the most important characters to Bran's storyline.

Oh give me a break, I am sad that the woman who played Old Nan died, but they could have gotten a replacement, an alternative woman who was around the same age. Because it doesn't make sense for Osha to know about dragons. White walkers, yes. But Old Nan was just old enough to understand and remember the last dragons...she's from Dunk's time, I believe.

Btw, your comment on my time being worthless wasn't immature at all....

I just refuse to pay for it anymore. Personally, I prefer the books and will stick with them. If I feel like watching the next episode and giving it another chance, I will. It doesn't mean I can't be sorely disappointed with what they did in the beginning episode.

Also, if you reply to this and try to get into some kind of board war, I'm not going to acknowledge it. I hate them and they ARE a waste of time.

Well, it boils down to that you often get treated with the attitude you show. You seemed very aggressive towards things that didn't fit your tastes, which seems very unnecessary.

The immature part isn't that you don't like that thing, it's that you write it as if it was a fact. It's not a good argument on any level.

D&D decided not to recast Old Nan to honor Margaret John's memory. As for Old Nan her age is unknown but it's highly unlikely that she's over 150 years old. Dragons didn't exist during Dunk's time and the last ones were still just twisted little things. Old Nan knows about dragons because it's a well known part of history. She knows about the legends about the Others but that doesn't mean that she lived when those were actually doing anything.

It's good for you that you liked the first season, but I don't see how the kind of arguments you've brought up can't be applied to that season. Lots of characters were cut or reduced or changed, Ros had episodes last season where she was featured more than in this episode, scenes were altered or changed completely, and so on. I'm not questioning what you like, but I don't exactly see the difference between the seasons so far, especially since you mention such small details as the number of Robert's bastards (which was never a fully known number).

[Hyper]

For the people wondering how non-bookreaders did receive the episode and grasped details - this podcast episode by two casual fans is pretty good: (they discuss GOT and other shows)

http://www.grantland.com/blog/hollywood-prospectus/post/_/id/47147/hollywood-prospectus-podcast-direwolves-fat-betty-and-soggy-detectives

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

My husband, a non-book reader who loved season one gave it an "8 or 9". (I have already voted by 8). He thought Lena Headly did a great job and he loves/hates Jeoffery. He keeps begging me to tell him that Jeoff will die. Jack Gleason is doing an amazing job of playing the complete ass. :lol:

Since he doesn't have the books to compare it to, he judges it on the story presented and the quality of the acting. He really is a snob about his actors, so this is pretty haigh praise.

[Hot Pie Guy]

I'm gonna try and keep with the overall "theme" of this thread so far while giving my opinion on the episode:

"NEEEEEEEERRRRRD RAAAAAAAAAAAGE"

:drunk:

Oh, and I gave it a 9. enjoyed the episode and am just glad the show is finally back.

[TeamDanyArya]

deviations from the book don't concern me in the least, TV is a completely different medium, and ultimately they're telling a different story here.

Characters in the books often have different interpretations of how events occured. POV characters might see one thing, while later other characters explain the same event differently. That's the same concept I apply to watching the TV version versus reading the book-- its gonna come off differently no matter what. I for one will enjoy going with the flow rather than bitching about strict adherence to the source material.

The thing I DO demand of the show is high production values, including continuity, acting, set design, etc. That's where I make my judgements. I thought some of the acting, and directing was a bit rusty in this episode. Although I expect this to change very quickly, starting with next episode :grouphug:

Here, here. I'm not sure I'm still understanding all the complaining about an episode that jam-packed a lot of stuff to set up the rest of the season as some sign the show is going downhill. Give it a whole season before decrying it. Plus, books, TV, and movies are all different mediums with their strengths and weaknesses. TV and movies don't allow the audience to get inside a character's deepest thoughts like a book can so things have to be said more and shown more or interactons with characters will change from the book.

GRRM has a hand in the show's direction. He has worked in TV before so he's okay with changes and scarifices that are bound to be made. I say, judge the books seperate from the series. TV has a budget, books generally don't.

[Greyjoy the Reaver]

I thought it was pretty good. I didn't care for the actress playing melisandre. Also whats with ser Dontos wearing American's colors huh?

[TeamDanyArya]

I'm gonna try and keep with the overall "theme" of this thread so far while giving my opinion on the episode:

"NEEEEEEEERRRRRD RAAAAAAAAAAAGE"

:drunk:

Oh, and I gave it a 9. enjoyed the episode and am just glad the show is finally back.

LOL. Yes, this board has a heavy dose of Nerd Rage for an episode that has an 8 rating on average.

[Tadco26]

I gave it an 8. I liked most of the episode, but there were a few things that bothered me. For me I can understand changes that have to be made due to budget constraints and time. What I don't care for is changes that seem to be made almost randomly that don't appear to have any bearing on budget, time constraints, or the need to show something that a POV character thinks internally in the books.

Some thoughts in no particular order:

1. Ros didn't bother me much in this episode, but re-quoteing my least favorite scene from the first season should have been cut. If that was supposed to be the pay off for watching Littlefinger personally training his whores in S1, then consider it a double failure in my eyes. Now if there were 12+ episodes this season, this wouldn't bother me so much, but when the average chapter of material is covered in ~5 minutes or less then this scene doesn't deserve to be in over conversations and content that was more interesting and had to be cut due to time constraints.

2. I wasn't surprised or too disappointed by the shortened version of Cressen's fate except for the fact that he drank and started dieing before she had even sipped the wine. Even if Melisandre had no powers or protection she wouldn't have died in that scenario, she simply would have dumped the wine out after he started bleeding out his nose. These seemingly random changes from the original are the ones that tend to bother me the most. I do think another minute or two of conversation between Davos and Cressen, or Cressen and Stannis could have added alot to the end result as well.

3. I liked Stannis and Davos, though they had such a small amount of screen time that there wasn't much to judge them on either way other than looks.

4. Joffrey's name day tournament was off. I have no problem with it being a melee in stead of a joust, but it could have been to first blood and not the death. If the melee already is to the death then why would Sansa risk her life to save a drunken fool? And why would Joffrey believe that it was bad luck to have someone killed on your name day when someone was killed minutes before that by the Hound. I also didn't really even get the impression that Dontos was that drunk. This wasn't a big deal to me, but it did bug me a little.

5 I agree with the people that say that the Littlefinger/Cersei scene was out of character for him. The scene was well acted, and well directed, but the creation of the scene actually gave us contrary information about littlefinger to what the books did in a show that really needs to focus it's limited screen time on enforcing the character's motivations, actions and thoughts.

6. Craster's scenes were ok to me, but I do think that Craster looked more like a lord than a wildling. I expected him to look more like the wildlings that attacked Bran with Osha.

7. The Rakharo scene was odd.

8. I liked the addition of showing the killing of Robert's bastards, but it doesn't make much sense that Joffrey would order it. First off Joffrey always 100% believed Robert was his father. Cersei absolutely wanted to diminish the chances of someone else furthering Stannis' rumor. After all 2 different Hands had put the puzzle together partially due to them. Cersei is supposed to be a ruthless, and heartless ruler, not sure why they are trying to add more to Joffrey's crimes when he has plenty without any help.

9. Speaking of Joffrey and Cersei, I thought the slap and Joffrey's response was totally contrasting their relationship in the books especially at that point. Joffrey could NOT have ordered Cersei killed, or at least he couldn't have ordered it and expected the order to be followed. She is the reagent, and in fact one of the only ways some of Joffrey's actions in the books are curtailed is by threatening Joffrey that they will tell Cersei what he is doing. For example

Tyrion preventing the public disrobing of Sansa. If Joffrey truely has complete control to do whatever he wants then there is no way Tyrion would survive his time at court.

10. Robb's parts were well acted and I liked all the Stark scenes. I would have preferred Cat kept her independence and input, but it didn't bother me as much as some of the other changes.

11. The special effects, scenery and costumes were all excellent especially by TV standards.

12. Glad to see the wolf dreams.

13. I agree that in many scenes (like the Littlefinger/Cersei scene) they seem to be afraid of being too subtle, and so over-explain things, whereas in other scenes they introduce characters and concepts (Davos, Melisandre, the burning of the seven) without any explanation at all.

Now it may seem like I didn't like the episode because I went much more in depth on what I didn't like than what I did, but I think complaints made among fans require more justification than compliments do. I did give it an 8 over all.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Tadco26

[The Roose is Loose]

Not bad overall - I give it an 8.

Not sure why so many posters don't like Stannis. I thought that he came across just like he is supposed to: uncharismatic, socially awkward, obsessed with nit-picky details, unforgiving of even the most minor slights and insults... hey, wait a minute, that sounds like us!

I also thought the rest of the Dragonstone crew was fine. Mel is hot enough and red enough, and her ruby does glow. Were you expecting/envisioning Scarlett Johansson and Hellboy's lovechild?

I liked the brief shot of the remorseful/disgusted Goldcloak during the bastard slaying montage. It's a nice touch to show that they are not all mindless stormtroopers, although Cersei's guards apparently are.

However, I did NOT like the wolves. They should have scoured the arctic wastes and mountain glaciers to find the frozen, perfectly preserved remains of dire wolves, extracted the DNA, and cloned 6 real dire wolves for the show (oops, I guess they only need 5 now). To do anything less is a complete travesty, looks totally fake, and betrays GRRM's perfect vision.

[lyvyathan]

liked it so far since i prepared my mind to some big changes from the books,

I was really disapointed by the way Craster was shown, He was so posh for a wildling. His wives were looking poor and durty but not him. The scene with Roob and the Lanister cousin of jaimie was not right at all. I was looking forward to Chataya and Alalaya but obsiously I will have to do with Ros. I did i well find the scene with Dontos week. Hope the other episodes are more .....

Yeah Ros. This is probably the first time in history when I'm not happy to see a good looking prostitute. :D

[lyvyathan]

Not bad overall - I give it an 8.

Not sure why so many posters don't like Stannis. I thought that he came across just like he is supposed to: uncharismatic, socially awkward, obsessed with nit-picky details, unforgiving of even the most minor slights and insults... hey, wait a minute, that sounds like us!

I also thought the rest of the Dragonstone crew was fine. Mel is hot enough and red enough, and her ruby does glow. Were you expecting/envisioning Scarlett Johansson and Hellboy's lovechild?

I liked the brief shot of the remorseful/disgusted Goldcloak during the bastard slaying montage. It's a nice touch to show that they are not all mindless stormtroopers, although Cersei's guards apparently are.

However, I did NOT like the wolves. They should have scoured the arctic wastes and mountain glaciers to find the frozen, perfectly preserved remains of dire wolves, extracted the DNA, and cloned 6 real dire wolves for the show (oops, I guess they only need 5 now). To do anything less is a complete travesty, looks totally fake, and betrays GRRM's perfect vision.

I think you meant the actor portrayed the book version accurately - not us? Oh wait!!! HOW DARE YOU INSULT.... haha.

I didn't like Stannis because he didn't seem to have that screen presence - he carried off the book idea to an extent.... I envisioned him to look more like David Gant the actor who played one of the English Lords in Joan of Arc The Messenger movie.

Then again it could be the stage direction - as I loved the way Stephen Dillane played Thomas Jefferson in "John Adams" - another stellar HBO production.

I didn't really like the brothel child murder scene. Not so much for the Goldcloaks or their leader - but due to Ros and the prostitute holding Robert's bastard child. The whole "Bethlehem murder scene" could have been done better I thought. - ie. a scene where LF and Cersei are talking somewhere and they see a small commotion - and Cersei remarks to LF that's she's tying up some of Robert's loose ends.

I so did not like the way they had LF insult Cersei to her face - there was NO WAY that the book LF would ever have done such a stupid act. He was much too clever and would have never insulted Cersei either intentionally or indirectly.

Yeah I concur - I didn't like the direwolves. If they are going to resort to CGI - at least make them to be much bigger - and the CGI scene with Jamie + direwolf - it looked too fake to me. There's a clever way to do cheap CGI - indirect shots - subtle hints of the monsterous form of the direwolf - once you see the bad CGI closeup - the illusion starts to vanish.

[Ice & Fire]

I'm a little bit dissappointed with the intro of Dragonstone and Stannis.

I had this vision of a black rocky shore with dark waters splashing against it,

then the camera would move up to the Castle wall and zooms in where Stannis was standing gazing out the window.

then it would zoom out to show the entire castle , followed by entire Dragonstone Island.

And then finally pans out to the Comet where Stannis was gazing

[Hyper]

However, I did NOT like the wolves. They should have scoured the arctic wastes and mountain glaciers to find the frozen, perfectly preserved remains of dire wolves, extracted the DNA, and cloned 6 real dire wolves for the show (oops, I guess they only need 5 now). To do anything less is a complete travesty, looks totally fake, and betrays GRRM's perfect vision.

Yeah I concur - I didn't like the direwolves. If they are going to resort to CGI - at least make them to be much bigger - and the CGI scene with Jamie + direwolf - it looked too fake to me. There's a clever way to do cheap CGI - indirect shots - subtle hints of the monsterous form of the direwolf - once you see the bad CGI closeup - the illusion starts to vanish.

Congrats, lyvyathan. It looks like your irony-detector needs to be calibrated. I think you managed to miss what The Roose is Loose was implying. :)

Edited April 5, 2012 by Hyper

[Dragon greyscale]

Irony aside, my nonreader girlfriend's response to grey wind was: holy shit, it's like a pony!

Mission accomplished I'd say.

OT: I gave the episode a 7. My biggest complaints are NOT any discrepency with the books, however. I think it's a silly and unfair way to measure the quality of the tv show.

Purely judged as a stand alone TV show, I think the sprawling stories are harmful to the overall pace. People here say that they cut too much between the various locations and I agree but what did we expect? This is the structure of asoiaf. And we all know it gets bigger and bigger. Ultimately, die-hard fidelity to the books is not going to make a quality show simply because of the constraints of the medium.

The first episode had hits and misses, but that wasn't all because of not being ad verbatim. Bran acting as lord of winterfell wasn't really necesary in the show. In the books it leads to the Reeds (who are not in the show from what I gather). In the show the transition to his dream is a bit random...or am I alone in this? There doesn't seem to be a connection between the two scenes. His warging is essential later but his temporary ruling: not so much. Cutting this out could have made more room for a proper intro to Dragonstone, something I thought wasn't handled very well. The actors are fine but an introductory scene where stannis reads ned's letter would have been good for nonreaders.

Anyway, the trick is to condense the story and properly introduce new elements. The first episode was not very condensed but all over the place. That said, it's still a very high production value and some great acting. Especially liked tyrion and joffrey's deliviries. It was a decent episode overall.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Dragon greyscale

[lyvyathan]

I'm a little bit dissappointed with the intro of Dragonstone and Stannis.

I had this vision of a black rocky shore with dark waters splashing against it,

then the camera would move up to the Castle wall and zooms in where Stannis was standing gazing out the window.

then it would zoom out to show the entire castle , followed by entire Dragonstone Island.

And then finally pans out to the Comet where Stannis was gazing

I like that vision of yours.

What I was worried about was the lack of explanatory text to accompany the scene. You and I know its Dragonstone - but the other viewers who haven't read the books wouldn't have a clue.

[lyvyathan]

Irony aside, my nonreader girlfriend's repsonse to grey wind was: holy shit, it's like a pony!

Mission accomplished I'd say.

OT: I gave the episode a 7. My biggest complaints are NOT any discrepency with the books, however. I think it's a silly and unfair way to measure the quality of the tv show.

Purely judged as a stand alone TV show, I think the sprawling stories are harmful to the overall pace. People here say that they cut too much between the various locations and I agree but what did we expect? This is the structure of asoiaf. And we all know it gets bigger and bigger. Ultimately, die-hard fidelity to the books is not going to make a quality show simply because of the constraints of the medium. The first episode had hits and misses, but that wasn't all because of not being ad verbatim. Bran acting as lord of winterfell wasn't really necesary in the show. In the books it leads to the Reeds. In the show the transition to his dream is a bit random...or am I alone in this? There does not seem to be a connection between the two scenes. His warging is essential later but his temporary ruling: not so much. Cutting this out could have made more room for a proper intro to Dragonstone, something I thought wasn't handled very well. The actors are fine but an introductoryscn where stannis reads ned letter would have been good for bonteaders. Anyway, the trick is to condense the story and properly ibtroduce new elements. The first episode was not very condensed but all over the place. That said, it's still a very high production value and some great acting. Especially liked tyrion and joffrey's deliviries. It was a decent episode overall.

I agree - each time I watch Ros' pathetic explanation about a brothel - I grind my teeth and wonder why the HBO writers didn't put more effort into Stannis' scene at Dragonestone. If I wanted to watch porn - I'd get it from the Adult Channel- I came to watch GoT d@mnit not the Playboy channel!!!

[lyvyathan]

Congrats, lyvyathan. It looks like your irony-detector needs to be calibrated. I think you managed to miss what The Roose is Loose was implying. :)

Haha. argh, you got me!!!! my eyes glazed over the 2nd sentence - well in my faux defence I offer this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/17525070

[King Bolton]

It flitted around a little to much, although this is perhaps expected with the opening episode. I gave it at 9 because I think you have to appreciate the difficulty the writers/directors are under, in an opening episode you really want to be covering all the main characters, and their situations, and when you add to this problem, an influx of new characters, things obviously become even more difficult.

However, if every episode is structured this way it won't be very good. I mean they can't continue using the comet link - that would wear thin very quickly. And it would be frustrating to see about 7 minutes of each key character. For me they have to base it around locations, and have half the locations one episode and the other half the next. But I could be wrong, have to wait and seee