How would you rate episode 201?

[Orangutangu]

I rated it a 5, as I was really quite disappointed with this episode, more than anything I thought it was a weak opening of a new season.

I suspect that I might think slightly better of it after a re-watch, as it took quite a few episodes to get me into season 1, but when I did, I really loved it, even the early episodes that I didn't really warm to to begin with.

Nevertheless, here are my initial thoughts (in no particular order):

1. I hated the sex. Hated it. I thought the whole whore house/Ros scene was pretty clumsily done, but the sex really bothered me. I actually didn't have a problem with it in season 1 (unlike many people I know); sure, some of it wasn't strictly necessary to tell the story they wanted to tell, but the books are unashamed in their descriptions of sex, and so I think it is appropriate that the TV series is too. For some reason it really didn't work for me in this episode, though. I find it hard to put my finger on exactly what it was, but something made it feel a lot more pornographic to me this time around.

2. The burning of the idols was a very powerful scene visually, but lost impact because the Faith of the Seven has never been established/explained. The series has so many characters and plot lines to juggle that I understand perfectly well why they don't want to spend time explaining the different religions as well, but I was watching it with people who haven't read the books and their reaction was to ask 'Are these statues supposed to be important?', 'What do they mean?', 'Why haven't we heard of this before?', and so on.

3. I loved Maester Cressen's chapter in the book, but although I agree that you don't understand his motivations for trying to kill Melisandre properly with the way they did it in this episode, I think it makes perfect sense that they did what they did. They are already struggling to give enough screen time to much more important characters, so I have no problem with Cressen's role being trimmed down like that.

4. I actually really liked both Stannis and Davos! (I see a lot of you didn't.) I don't think I'll be able to say how I feel about Melisandre before I've seen a bit more of her, but I think she is beautiful, not plain at all. The Davos character does seem to appear a bit out of nowhere, and you don't really understand who or what he is if you don't already know, but presumably this will be dealt with in episodes to come.

5. Joffrey's name day tournament felt really rushed. I have no problem with it being a melee in stead of a joust, but the dialogue didn't feel as refined as the writing from season 1, and the Dontos story was clumsily done.

6. My problem with the tournament scene was really the same as my main problem with the episode as a whole. I understand the challenges they faced in trying to fit all that information into one episode, but too much of it ended up feeling rushed. When I say rushed, I don't just mean the pace of it, or that some scenes were cut very short, but also that some scenes simply felt unfinished. This includes the Cersei/Littlefinger scene.

7. I agree that the Craster's keep scene felt too hurried and that Craster looked a bit too clean. That being said, I thought his acting was good, and I liked the set. My main problem was that it, like many of you have said, wasn't as scary as it could have been. This might be getting into the realm of nit-picking, but I also think it is a little bit problematic that it is the first thing you see beyond the Wall. They do mention that they have seen several abandoned villages on their way there, but the way it was shown it felt a bit like that the keep was situated pretty much immediately outside the Wall, and you don't get a sense of the vast wilderness there really is.

8. I wanted to see much more of Arry, but that probably means that what we did see was pretty good :P

9.

10. DANY'S WEIRD INTERACTION WITH RAKHARO!!!! WHHHATTTT IN SEVEN HELLS WAS THAT!! They better not get romantic!!

Yeah, that felt really weird and wrong, perhaps especially because it came seconds after she had a tender moment with Jorah, which was confusing. Don't know what was going on there. My first thought was that they might be

replacing Daario with Rakharo, but I really don't know

10.

The scene with Robert's bastards made it seem like he had fathered half the children in Kings Landing

I actually really liked the slaying of the bastards. (Ok, it feels really wrong to say that, but that it was gruesome to watch, as I think it should be.) I didn't see it as Robert having fathered hundreds of bastards, but rather the gold cloaks slaying any baby in any house where Robert was at any time rumored to have bedded a girl, a bit like Herod killing all the baby boys in Bethlehem just to get rid of Jesus, and I thought that was appropriately horrifying.

11.

The actress playing Catelyn has the most beautiful eyes. Not pleased to see a lot of her ideas coming out of Robb's mouth, though. But I guess that fits in with what they were doing with her last season.

I too was a bit sad to see Robb taking over so many of Cat's ideas, but for the sake of the adaptation, I think it makes sense. It is important that they build up Robb as a strong character, and I think they are doing that well. I actually really liked him in the scene with Jaime.

12. Apart from the killing of the babies, I don't think it felt bleak and dangerous enough. When reading the book, one of my first impression that

(spoiler alert just to be safe) the world of ACOK was even more deadly and dangerous than the world of AGOT, with dead bodies lying in the streets of Kings Landing and along the kingsroad and the people starving and running from their homes. From the moment Tyrion arrives in King's Landing you know that this is now a city at war. I'm hoping there will be more of this in the later episodes, though.

I guess what I am saying is that I wanted more of the kind of gruesomeness we saw when they were killing the bastards.

13. In terms of the acting, I thought most of it was very good, Tyrion, Robb, Davos, Stannis and Joffrey especially. I never minded Ros before, but I thought her acting was terrible when she was repeating Littlefinger's lines from season 1. And I still find myself very confused about her and where they are going with her character.

14. I thought the wolf dream scene worked surprisingly well. I was not sure they were even going to do that (though not doing them would have made things very difficult later.)

There really is a lot that I really liked about E01 (as I hope you can tell), and in addition to what I have mentioned, I thought the CGI, the music, the intro and the cinematography were all pretty stunning. But I just didn't like the episode as a whole. I don't think it flowed well, and my friends who have not read the books really struggled to keep up.

It seems odd that in many scenes (like the Littlefinger/Cersei scene) they seem to be afraid of being too subtle, and so over-explain things, whereas in other scenes they introduce characters and concepts (Davos, Melisandre, the burning of the seven) without any explanation at all.

In a way it felt like neither the first episode of a new season nor an episode in the middle of a bigger whole, and I think that was the problem. Too many of the King's Landing scenes felt very flat, which is a shame as they are already struggling to get as much as possible out of the time they've got. I think it was a badly structured episode with many good elements in it, and I think there is certainly potential for season 2 to be very good, I just hope it doesn't take them too many episodes to get where they need to be.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Orangutangu

[Sven Wonders]

My wife who has not read the books,(I Have) was lost on alot of things going on. I found myself haveing to explain quite alot. I was dissapointed by crasters keep. They made it way to tiny. And I had always imagined Craster looking something along the lines of Lord Frey. Other than that I thouroughly enjoyed the first episode, cant wait for next sunday.

[Slingingstones]

8/10

I view the books and tv adaptation as two separate entities. I don't find fault with either. 10 hour long episodes require flexibility and I believe the writers and actors have hit all my entertainment buttons. I've viewed 2ep1 four times on hbogo just to pick-up on parts and pieces I missed during the first viewing...like Tyrion thanking LF with a "look" for his imprisonment ordeal in the Vale; or, Dolorous Edd's description of Craster's Keep, "...then we fell on hard times." The audio was almost a little too low to enjoy his one liner. Or Sansa's mouse-like responses after being smacked around by Ser Merwyn (carried over from season 1). High marks all around.

[tearloch]

So, has it been concluded that HBO is doing away with the wonder twins Reed kids, and replacing their role with the wildling woman?

And has anyone figured out why HBO is making such a big deal over Ros? What are they planning to do with her, since they have built her up way beyond what I remember from the books.

Edited April 3, 2012 by tearloch

[NW Deserter]

Why do people keep thinking that there is something between Dany and Rakharo in the show? I didn't get that impression whatsoever. It just seemed like a loyal servant wanting to help out his lord. The bloodrider relationship among the Dothraki is an extremely close bond, closer even than siblings, but it's never sexual. You guys are reading too much into that little scene.

[teemo]

I had friends that were non-book readers call/text me to ask if Dany was going to get busy with her bloodrider soon. And it's a theory that is out there on other forums as well. We don't see it since we're book readers, but apparently a lot of people do. I still firmly believe it was just supposed to be a touching (although awkward) moment between her and Drogo's friend and now of the blood of her blood, but...who knows.

It was weird how Dontos didn't seem drunk like....at all.

As far as the Reeds, it's very sad that they were cut. I can live without the Blackfish (barely), but Jojen would have been really freakin' cool to see on HBO. Instead we just get...Osha.

Oh, and no three slaps to Tyrion from Cersei was disappointing :( That could have been clever and funny as hell, with Tyrion's witty little quips and all.

Edited April 3, 2012 by dannister

[EgoistMusketeer]

I had friends that were non-book readers call/text me to ask if Dany was going to get busy with her bloodrider soon. And it's a theory that is out there on other forums as well. We don't see it since we're book readers, but apparently a lot of people do. I still firmly believe it was just supposed to be a touching (although awkward) moment between her and Drogo's friend and now of the blood of her blood, but...who knows.

It was weird how Dontos didn't seem drunk like....at all.

As far as the Reeds, it's very sad that they were cut. I can live without the Blackfish (barely), but Jojen would have been really freakin' cool to see on HBO. Instead we just get...Osha.

Oh, and no three slaps to Tyrion from Cersei was disappointing :( That could have been clever and funny as hell, with Tyrion's witty little quips and all.

I could see the bloodrider replacing Daario in the future since there are far too many characters for HBO to include in their 10 episode seasons.

Im just hearing about the reeds being replaced now! What are they going to go when Osha takes Rickon?! Is it just going to be Bran and Hodor vs the world??

[Arrogant Bastard]

Oh, and no three slaps to Tyrion from Cersei was disappointing :( That could have been clever and funny as hell, with Tyrion's witty little quips and all.

That's the part I missed the most, and I'm shocked the writers didn't keep it in. I suppose it could show up later, but it really is an exchange best suited for when Tyrion first meets up with her after becoming Hand. Actually, it's very unlikely it will be kept, now that apparently everyone knows about Cersei and Jaime. I wonder if they'll keep Littlefinger coming up with the story about Stannis; probably not, since Shireen and Patchface aren't in the show.

[Vandalism]

Like I said, it was the spark to ignite bigger fires later on. The short scenes we got were an example of how we were just being reminded of what's going on.

[kissdbyfire]

Quote thingy not working for me... @NW Deserter, I agree with you. I didn't see even a hint of sexual tension or anything like that at all in Dany and Rakharo's scene in the Red Waste. I actually thought the scene was quite touching.

[Vandalism]

Yes. Last thing our bad-ass series needs is typical gooey fan-girlism.

[teemo]

That's the part I missed the most, and I'm shocked the writers didn't keep it in. I suppose it could show up later, but it really is an exchange best suited for when Tyrion first meets up with her after becoming Hand. Actually, it's very unlikely it will be kept, now that apparently everyone knows about Cersei and Jaime. I wonder if they'll keep Littlefinger coming up with the story about Stannis; probably not, since Shireen and Patchface aren't in the show.

Yeah, it's dead :( Deleted scene? ...maybe? :crying:

And I would really hate to see one of her bloodriders replace Daario. Rahkaro is all sweet and lovey for a bloodrider, not Dany's type. Daario is just a creepy weirdo and he doesn't even come around for a lonnnnggg time....

[Orangutangu]

I had friends that were non-book readers call/text me to ask if Dany was going to get busy with her bloodrider soon. And it's a theory that is out there on other forums as well. We don't see it since we're book readers, but apparently a lot of people do. I still firmly believe it was just supposed to be a touching (although awkward) moment between her and Drogo's friend and now of the blood of her blood, but...who knows.

I agree that it's probably not meant to be anything other than a moment between Khaleesi and bloodrider, but only because of what I know about the characters and their stories from reading the books. If I try to look at the scene by itself, I think it looks a bit strained and awkward and generally quite confusing.

When you read the books you get to see the change that Dany undergoes when she goes into the flames, and the actual scene where she names her bloodriders, but all the non-book readers know is that now she has dragons and suddenly she is interacting very differently with Rakharo. I can see why they would think something romantic was going on (especially without really understanding the concept of bloodriders, which you won't from just watching the TV series.)

[Milgod morghulis]

My wife hasn't read the books so had a different take on the show. She thought Craster was revolting so I don't know how much worse they could have made him without turning into a panto villain. She also thought Mel was a nasty piece of work, so I'm not sure she came across as a 'goofball' as somebody mentioned.

[The hairy bear]

8/10

I take one point for the episodic nature of the episode from one location to the other, another half for the needless and out of place sex training day in the brothel, and another half for the mistep in Littlefinger's characteritzation.

[Songlian]

I gave it an 8, and felt it was a really great episode. Perhaps a bit slow on plotting, but that was to be expected from the first.

The Lannister cast took the prize as far as I'm concerned (Lena is up ten notches!), but it was so good to see everyone again, they could have probably played with a bucket on their heads and I wouldn't have cared. A little disappointed with Jon's scenes so far.

I hope there's a rerun. Soon.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Songlian

[Pedro Ricardo Ferreira]

Agree with most of the comments above.

1)

Craster's Keep and Craster himself, along with his "wifes" looked way more "civilized" (and well-fed) than they should.

2) Melissandre is a good fit, but not such an imposing figure as to be expected.

3) Joffrey and Tyrion are amazing, especially "the king". He really makes us hate the character.

But, all in all, great job.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Pedro Ricardo Ferreira

[tearloch]

Totally agree on Craster. He was nothing like what I pictured. He seemed more like an angry old farmer than some disgusting incestuous pedophile.

The thought of HBO replacing Dario with the bloodrider may make some sense. That may explain that "moment" with Dany.... [Edited for potential spoiler]

Same could be said about the absence of the Blackfish (although that is the first I heard about him being dropped by HBO). I was really hoping to see the Blackfish kick ass on screen. [edited for potential spoiler]

And the Reed kids being gone is probably the biggest problem I have with HBO's presentation so far. There are some big implications here. [edited for potential spoiler]

[edited] Sorry for any potential spoilers.

Edited April 3, 2012 by tearloch

[lyvyathan]

I'll give it a 9/10.

Don't you love the awesome attention to detail - the clothes, the uniforms, the set design, the locations? It took a great deal of effort and money to film it that way instead of a backyard Studio park.

I also loved the transition and juxaposition of the scene between Catelyn+Robb and Cersei+Joff - very similar, very character focused - and it helps to build up to the subsequent events (which we'll see later hint hint).

I agree with everyone who thought that Craster's Keep was much too clean - Craster also looked too clean - like a normal medieval Lord living in a civilized world- and not a crazy old man stuck in the middle of nowhere having incestuous sex with his daughters. At the very least he should have had a big beard, looked unkempt etc which is more in keeping with someone whose living in a land too cold to take a shower or shave.

Ros/ whorehouse scene - usually I like to see pretty women - but I'm starting to get annoyed by this HBO added character - I don't think she adds a hell of a lot to the plot.

I liked the actresses playing Melisandre. However - I felt the scene at Dragonstone lacked more gravitas somehow. The actor playing Stannis looked very... unregal... almost incompetent - hardly someone who looks like a successful battle commander (and I was surprised because the actor was great in another HBO series)

The actor was played Davos was great - and would have made a better "Stannis". But he has a bearing that doesn't look like a "ex-smuggler" to me.

I also thought HBO Cersei should have showed greater revulsion towards Tyrion, esp. his kiss. I wanted to see her flinch in disgust.

The showdown scene between Cersei and LF seems a bit ... indulgent. The book LF would never be so silly as to provoke Cersei in that manner - correct me if I'm wrong.

I could imagine LF giving that speech about power to Ros - but to Cersei, c'mon that's ridiculous!!!

[lyvyathan]

I rated it a 5, as I was really quite disappointed with this episode, more than anything I thought it was a weak opening of a new season.

1. I hated the sex. Hated it. I thought the whole whore house/Ros scene was pretty clumsily done, but the sex really bothered me. I actually didn't have a problem with it in season 1 (unlike many people I know); sure, some of it wasn't strictly necessary to tell the story they wanted to tell, but the books are unashamed in their descriptions of sex, and so I think it is appropriate that the TV series is too. For some reason it really didn't work for me in this episode, though. I find it hard to put my finger on exactly what it was, but something made it feel a lot more pornographic to me this time around.

Maybe its the gay sex - ie Renly + Knight of Flowers that you are missing?