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Ran

[Book Spoilers] EP201 Discussion

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Craster did not look at all like how I pictured him, he seemed too normal or something I'm not sure. Dragonstone and Stannis were both great imo even thought we saw very little of them, really liked the carved table.

This is how I pictured Craster when I read the book:

monty_python_holy_grail_lord_of_swamp_castle_and_guards.png

Yes. The king of Swamp castle.

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Some thoughts:

1. Craster may have been well groomed, but the way he said "my wives" was creepy as all hell. Her response about dying free rather than living as slaves was wonderfully undercut by her Patty Hearst-like delivery.

2. I thought the wolves were amazing; Grey Wind really felt like a horror movie monster, something whose tactile presence, the sound, the movement, the sight was terrifying all by itself.

3. Putting the purge of the bastards on Joffrey's shoulders was really chilling. From zero to Caligula in...how long has it been since Episode 10 in real world terms? A couple weeks.

4. I actually thought the Littlefinger/Cersei thing worked really well; people say that Littlefinger is too smart for that, but this is a man who built a criminal conspiracy on an easily verifiable lie - he's a gambler, and one who can't help lording himself over people he thinks he's smarter than (remember that he thought he had Varys' balls in his hand). And it made Cersei, who otherwise was really less threatening due to the shifting of murders onto Joffrey's shoulders, really quite unpredictable and scary. The thing that got me was the take three paces, turn around, close your eyes - the Lannister men were like Imperial Stormtroopers, totally without independent thought. It also made Janos Slynt's invasion of his brothel have more of an impact; Cersei's made a public move against him, so now he's got motivation.

5. I like the fact that Ned's letter made it to Sannis, and then from Stannis to Rob (which at least shows that however much he talks about Robb being a thief, he's not stupid).

6. Greywolf2375 - I actually thought they made Robb out to be more mature and worldly than he was in the book. Giving peace terms he knew would be refused, making a deal with Renly despite knowing about Stannis' claims, his speech about his bannermen not being trusted with Jaime's life - this is a Robb who understands some politics.

7. They're really building up Slynt as a total bastard. Can't wait for his two comeuppances.

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I Loved it.. will agree with most people, Cressen scene was the only dissapointing part for me.. i pictured dontos as skinny dirty drunk dude.. I thinking Irri is one of the hottest, love to see a sexposition of dany and her lol..

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This was pretty great. Yes, the Littlefinger scene was a bit out of character, but it didn't just come out of no where- Cersei taunted him with Cat, one of the few things which seems to really bother Petyr to the core...in fact, you could argue that his experience with Catelyn was what created Littlefinger as we know him and drives everything he does. Overall a great episode, cant wait to see more of Stannis, I just really hope they don't ignore the fact that despite listening to Melisandre, he isn't truly a follower of R'hllor. Turn Stannis Baratheon into a religious zealot and the character becomes much less interesting.

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Sonic the Hedgehog - in regards to Renly's sexuality, I remember in the "Love Makes You Weak" promo, they showed Renly messing around with Loras on his wedding night, then Loras sending him off to Margaery. My guess is that they're going to have a very complicated relationship, where Loras gets Renly revved up enough so that he can close his eyes and think of Westeros until he sires an heir.

Stannis' letter scene was absolutely perfect. I loved that they kept the beloved thing and the kingslayer and knight bit in, showed his absolute attention to truth in an episode all about truth and power.

Ran - do you really think it was possible for Cressen's death to have that much emotional resonance, given that he's a brand-new character who's going to die quickly? We don't have voiceover to give us his interiority, and we don't have time to see him wander up and down Dragonstone to see his character develop. Personally, the Dragonstone scenes gave me real chills. Stannis' face was especially good, just an epic permafrown.

Dolorous Edd was really good. Not just funny, but also showed some character in his rather pragmatic evaluation of Craster.

HokieStone - Ros for Alaya makes a huge amount of sense. Really hadn't thought of that.

Tsavong Lah - unlikely to be an Umber, I think it's more likely that he's a Glover or a Tallhart.

turdle - hell, no. I loved Davos, the complicated mixture between loyalty and truth in his face the whole time.

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This was a little disappointing. Tyrion was much better in the book, I expected him to be much better in the episode than he was although his part in the episode was enjoyable it could have been quite better, Cressen story wasn't as good as it should have been, in general Staninis related scenes could have been better in my view and we should have gotten a stronger sense of who Stannis is as we did in the prologue.. I expected Craster toolook and be creepier than he was. On the positive side I really love the focus on Robb in the show, best part of the episode. I also like how the show has Cersei be somewhat intimidating but LF does not act like that, his reaction was dumb. As for other things I liked, the killing of the bastards was a rather good way to end the episode.

Good, enjoyable episode but I feel a little disappointed, I expected it to be better

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I was a little disappointed :( I expect it to pick up in the next episode, but I hated Craster's looks, still think that Lana Headey doesn't understand Cersei, HATED HATED the Littlefinger scene (POWER IS POWER OMGZ), definitely was disappointed with no Arya yet, the scene with Cersei/Joff was weird. Was their any reference to Joff ever talking to his mom like that? I guess it's fair game, since we had neither POV in the first three books.

The scene with Cressen/Meli was...meh. Meli is supposed to drink first, and I don't like the actress that plays Meli. She LOOKS perfect for the part, but I don't think she's a very good actress for her. A lot of the wit that was contributed to Stannis during discussion was given to Davos. Book Stannis was a lot more like, "and is this Lord of Light going to bring me ships and soldiers?" He also got burned with Lightbringer and cursed and hit it on the ground in the book, which could have been kind of funny. No Selyse/Shireen/Patchface, which I knew, but felt odd.

Craster is WAY too good-looking and clean-cut (not like really good-looking, but much more so than I ever imagined). I think it's funny. I'm 21% of my way through my re-read of ACOK and they haven't even visited Craster's yet. Dany's scene was short, thankfully. Nitpick alert: she should look a lot more anorexic looking than she does, and Viserys is actually who helped her remember what to feed the dragons. The Hound didn't fight on Joff's name day since they were all gnats. Would have been hilarious if Dontos was actually naked, or at least half-naked. Hodor doesn't say Hodor enough (at all, actually).

Pissed that Tyrion didn't get slapped three times. That would have been awesome, and that scene could have been way more devious.

The good? Sansa was great at her part and so was Tyrion. Loved Stannis and Davos, they are exactly how I pictured. Bran's dreams are getting interesting and I'm glad the direwolves are finally starting to play a meaningful role. Love the Dragonstone on the map addition. I liked how they killed Barra's bastard on-screen (why didn't they show killing Barra?) and then tied in Gendry - it really made the audience know who Gendry really is. Long ago when I read the books, I was confused. However, it seems like some people are confused whether Joff or Cersei ordered it on the show. A lot of people were right about Ros's role. Only makes sense. And wow, she wasn't naked in a show. Is that a first? Liked the scene with Robb/Jaime. Definitely keeping Jaime in the show this season is a good idea, and they can do the whole try to escape thing, since that really did happen in the book and we just didn't see it. Grey Wind is AWESOME. Oh, and Joffrey is freakin' spot-on. Love him.

Anyway, I'm not really that bothered. I think next week it will pick up.

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I just managed to watch it (HBO GO seems to be working fine for me).

1. I loved the Littlefinger-Cersei scene. Aside from Cersei reacting impulsively, it was also a reminder to Littlefinger that for all his schemes and money, he's still just a nobody from an insignificant House who can be killed at the Queen's pleasure. The brothel really reinforced that, when Littlefinger's bribes turned out to be worthless as a shield when the Watch came knocking. It explains why he leaps at the offer when Tyrion dangles the bait of actually having a real Lordship, even if it's Harrenhal.

2. The ending scene with the deaths of the bastards was appropriately intense. The episode was a bit slow up to that point, but then it picked up. I hope the baby death bit doesn't turn off too many viewers (Ser Gregor cutting a horse in half in Season One didn't).

3. I didn't really care for most of the Stannis scenes. Although Dillane looked good as Stannis (the whole time at the burning, he looked like he had a stick up his ass - very Stannis), the rest lacked menace and suspense. Stannis is this hugely important character that was only barely touched in Season One, and now he's just thrown at us along with Davos. I hope the Davos-Melisandre boat scene is appropriately creepy to make up for it.

4. Cersei was the best part of this episode. Getting angry and demanding that everyone leave except Tyrion, ordering the deaths of the bastards once she receives not one but two suspicious inquiries (from her own son no less!). That's the Cersei was hoping for - she's even better than Book-Cersei.

5. Tyrion was great. Not much can be said about that, although I hope they let some of his flaws sink in at some point.

6. I liked the scene at Craster's Keep, well-groomed Craster aside. I did miss the chat that Jon has with Lord Mormont about Craster, but I assume that's going to happen in Episode 2 (since we haven't met Gilly yet).

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I enjoyed this episode more than any from last season, but I think that I'm approaching the show differently - books 2-3 are much less linear and much denser than the first book, so the show is a little less predictable and I'm watching more as a spectator than a critic. When it ended, I was totally ready to see more.

However, it definitely helps that I know every detail so following new plotlines is no problem. I'm pretty sure that if I hadn't read the books, I'd be fairly confused right now.

I love Tyrion. I have no problem with the changes to Littlefinger considering that it gives him a stronger presence as a TV character. Joffrey is perfectly despicable and everyone will love watching him die. Robb & Jaime's exchange felt a little off to me - entertaining, but a little punch line-y. Oh well, Robb was kind of a blank slate in the books, so he can be anything in the show. Despite Craster's grooming, the way he talked about his "wives" was sufficiently creepy, and the men's reactions drew attention to how unnatural he is. I enjoyed the Stannis line as a reader, but am pretty sure that I wouldn't have known exactly what was going on otherwise.

I hate Dany. But while I don't think she's a fantastic actress, the material she has to work with is pretty bad right now. Stilted dialog and stilted performance. And Osha really grates at me. I know she's a minor character, but she's just this horrible caricature, and why can't she talk without her head almost tilted off her shoulders?

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I hate Dany. But while I don't think she's a fantastic actress, the material she has to work with is pretty bad right now. Stilted dialog and stilted performance. And Osha really grates at me. I know she's a minor character, but she's just this horrible caricature, and why can't she talk without her head almost tilted off her shoulders?

I agree with these comments. Dany's acting was not very good at all from the little we saw of her in this episode, but her Dothraki was pretty good :P

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I didn't like Dragonstone had a big city near the castle, it was like king's landing size, and It suppose to have a volcano, that disapoint me.

All was too fast but I enjoyed.

Loved Melissandre's gaze and Stannis mouth.

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Paraphrased from the other thread...

I was impressed. I went in with relatively low expectations. Biggest improvement = direwolves. Biggest disappointment = Davos or Craster. The other new actors (including Melissandre) were better than I expected. This show never held a candle to the books, but this was a good start.

and... I just can't help myself...

Craster is WAY too good-looking

................................... ew.

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Paraphrased from the other thread...

I was impressed. I went in with relatively low expectations. Biggest improvement = direwolves. Biggest disappointment = Davos or Craster. The other new actors (including Melissandre) were better than I expected. This show never held a candle to the books, but this was a good start.

and... I just can't help myself...

................................... ew.

lol, well, include the rest of the sentence at least :P

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I just finished the episode and loved it!

The LF/Cersei scene was supposed to mirror last season where the Goldcloaks obeyed her instead of Ned-she's reminding him who's in charge and it seemed she came prepared with that in mind.

I just glanced over the scene in ACoK where Tyrion sends Slynt to the Wall-here's no confirmation that the order to kill Robert's bastards was given by Cersei. Joff on the other hand has sent a hired knife after at least one child.

Moreover,now that I think about it-why bother killing them now? She's seized power snd the commons have already heard about the incest.

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Sure, you want Craster's body, don't you? DON'T YOU!?!

Hey...don't give up my secret :bawl:

Oh, my friend (non-book reader) is insistent that there is something going on between Dany and her bloodrider. I told him she was just being grateful, but he says he's not buying it. Anyone have an opinion?

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