(Book Spoilers) Dornish No Show?

[bayrodney]

What if the Dornish were left out of the TV series all together (based on what we've seen up until the end of ADWD)? How greatly would that affect the show? Could their interactions and major plot points be replaced with other characters? Would that save D&D some time/money/episode space?

Please enlighten me.

[carmela28]

I've never considered that the Dornish could be dropped from the show entirely. Possible, I guess, but very disappointing.

With the limitations that they are under to get ASOIAF into a manageable story, they could eliminate Oberyn (sadly). And I suppose that Quentyn could go...I still don't quite understand what his ill-fated dragon-quest was supposed to accomplish. And the Sand Snakes could probably be reduced from eight to two.

For me, Doran's grief and desire for vengeance are strong elements in this story. I like House Martell - I would hate to lose them.

We may get an indication this season - if Myrcella isn't sent off to Sunspear.

[hint]

I wouldn't mind if a lot of it would be cut. Not saying the events that happen there would not happen, but most of it could be narrated through 3rd person if/when needed. As things stand after ADWD, characters in Dorne have no relations with any of the other main cast what so ever. I think Quentyn visiting Dany should be enough to let viewers know that there is some scheming prince in Dorne who is on Targs side. Myrcella getting hurt plot could be simply told to us by someone later(just send a raven and have a scene with a freaked out Cercei or smth). I mean sorry Dorne fans, I know you are out there, but if something actually relavent happened there during the first 5 books what had an actual effect to rest of the Westeros, I missed it.

Now I might sing a different tune if GRRM has told the producers that Dorne will have a HUGE role in next 2 books that couldn't be ignored, then it would make sense to make some early character intros and build-ups in case they don't really have much else to fill their screen time with in the book 4+5 season(s). But based what we've read so far - no actual need to bring them in yet.

[Spring Bass]

How could they eliminate Oberyn? It's a fairly significant plot point that he fights (and fails to kill) the Mountain. Besides, Dorne plays a significant role in the following two books after ASoS.

[hint]

Obviously they couldn't eliminate Oberyn. I'm thinking the actual plot that takes place in Dorne, mostly the Myrcella queenmaking process. It was irrelavent to the rest of the plot, just a bunch of characters we don't care about did something that they failed at without it even getting known. When Arianne, Doran and Sand Snakes actually become big players, it will be easy to introduce them through some scences with a character TV audience would already know. Wasting an hour for HBO to build up Dorne with its characters and plots independently just for the thin Myrcella plot and then showing Arianne and Doran making up would be just repeating GRRMs mistake.

[teemo]

Then why is HBO selling Martell shirts/posters/etc. on their official site? I think that's good enough to say they're not dropped from the show. Reduced - probably....but no Red Viper?! Can't see that.

[Bayard]

Obviously they couldn't eliminate Oberyn. I'm thinking the actual plot that takes place in Dorne, mostly the Myrcella queenmaking process. It was irrelavent to the rest of the plot, just a bunch of characters we don't care about did something that they failed at without it even getting known. When Arianne, Doran and Sand Snakes actually become big players, it will be easy to introduce them through some scences with a character TV audience would already know. Wasting an hour for HBO to build up Dorne with its characters and plots independently just for the thin Myrcella plot and then showing Arianne and Doran making up would be just repeating GRRMs mistake.

Who says we don't care about them??? i actually love the Dorne story, almost completly from Arhutr Dayne, all the way to Quentin and the Sand Snakes :). And Duran's revelation is one of my favorite things in the books. Anyway I am sure they will not leave Dorne out.... why?? it's simple, it gives them many shocking deaths, and of course.... a lot of scenes with Arianne :). No more need for Ros

[teemo]

They'll keep Doran, Oberyn and probably Ellaria his paramour, Trystane (might not see him, but we know Myrcella leaves KL to wed Trystane from trailers/featurettes/etc.)....and then if the series lasts that long, there will most likely be Quentyn, Arianne (because she's a princess and heir to Sunspear AND she gets POVs in TWOW), umm....debating about the sand snakes. That's a complicated and interesting one. Yeah, falling asleep, and leaving at that. Probably leaving some really important ppl out.

[akajea]

They can't cut Dorne. First of all, Oberyn is awesome and is the perfect story for TV.

But the main thing is... you are asking "based on what we've seen up until the end of ADWD". But it's not about what we've seen up until the end of ADWD. It's about what the Dornishmen will do in the future.

Up until now all the Martells have done is die. GRRM would not have given them so many chapters if that was all they were going to do. So we can conclude that they will do something more important in the future. And if they're doing something important in the future, they'll be included in the show.

[Loras]

I don't think that we will go to Dorne as a location - the AFFC is not massively important, still a great story but it wouldn't harm the story to miss it out. However, Dorne or it's people do play a major role in the story.

Oberyn Martell won't be cut. I tend to think that his role will be expanded. He might by a regular character for the Fourth season. I would have loved to see some additional scenes between the Red Viper and Cersei! He also has a lot of backstory to reveal - particularly in terms of the Targaryen dynasty and the Sack of King's Landing and the death of his sister. I think that Ellaria Sand might be introduced too, but probably as a featured extra.

Quentyn Martell won't be cut either. I don't think that we will see his journey to Daenerys, but we will see him in the court at Meereen. Once again he could be revealing important pieces of backstory, including that Dorne stands waiting for Dany. We need to develop some sympathy for this character so that when he gets burned by the dragons, that we actually care.

The only scene that we might get in Dorne, is the feast where Gregor's skull is brought before the Dornish court. We would be given Doran's main plot at this point, including part of his conversation with Arianne from 'The Princess in the Tower'.

Again following this conversation, Nymeria Sand and Tyene Sand are going to King's Landing. Obara could effectively be cut. So a vast array of Dornish sets are not required.

TWOW SPOILERS:

Arianne would be required to go to Storm's End and interact with Jon Connington. JC will surely have an expanded role in the TV series.

[The Monkey]

I think the Dorne part is important , because of the role that they will play in the future novels. Despite everything, I still think Dorne will be launching spot for Dany's invasion (especially as it would allow her to easily join forces with her nephew in the Stormlands), and it would be better for the readers/viewers to know the characters beforehand.

Besides, I think Myrcella will play an bigger part in the future as well, so it would be stupid to have her left out completely from the series for several seasons.

[Lord Varys]

Since it's now confirmed that ASoS is going to be adapted in two seasons, I guess we have reason to assume that Dorne and the Iron Islands will feature heavily in season 4. Oberyn's death and the Dornish reaction, possibly even Arianne's plot involving Myrcella will be shown in season 4. Just as the Kingsmoot of the Ironborn.

This way, Oberyn will not be some no-name character dropping into the story out of the blue. The death of Rhaegar's children was already hinted at, they will explore this eventually, perhaps already in season 2 since Myrcella's Dornish betrothal is about to happen, I guess.

AFfC/ADwD will likely be 3-4 seasons, if they are doing things right, and it's last season will likely include the two battles which will be in TWoW.

[hint]

Who says we don't care about them??? i actually love the Dorne story, almost completly from Arhutr Dayne, all the way to Quentin and the Sand Snakes :). And Duran's revelation is one of my favorite things in the books. Anyway I am sure they will not leave Dorne out.... why?? it's simple, it gives them many shocking deaths, and of course.... a lot of scenes with Arianne :). No more need for Ros

I'm sorry I know many people like Dorne story line, what I meant is that it would be hard(read: really screen time consuming) to make a TV viewer care about those new characters(people in Dorne ofc, there is no way they can leave out Red Viper or Quentyn), because they do not interfere/communicate with any of the cast that we already know before - they stand completely isolated. I mean to introduce Greyjoys we had Theon and they will start raiding North, something audience can relate too, for Tyrells they have Loras and Margaery who will be straight involved in the Game and everyone we know of, for Dragonstone we have the reightful heir who will be apart of the war, for futher Renly build-up we have the Catelyn visit coming up and for Vale we had her and Tyron both around. But Dorne stands all alone, nobody will go there unless they build up Myrcella and make her part of the main cast.

So in that sense TV logic wise, it would be bad to intoduce Arianne and Doran before the action gets to them. And yes, I don't count Myrcella queenmaking being that 'action'. It took few pages to make Bran cripple and this event triggered the chain of events that started a war, yet about hundred for Myrcella to lose an ear without any consequences to be seen. I mean sorry, but unless she becomes a major POV charater in last 2 books and ends up in iron throne or close enough I won't understand why GRRM felt this story was needed so big. Ok, actually I do understand WHY he did it per se, he wanted to show us Dorne, so he created some kind of plot there based around this queenmaking. But it did not work as well as it should have(hence the very mixed opinions about Dorne story line) and it will be the same for TV - a looot of time needed to build up those new charaters and even then half the people will be like "meeh, don't really care".

Saying all this, I don't actually think they will dare to leave Dorne out. I mean by then I'd estimate majority of the shows fans have surely finished with the books, so they might not want to risk the negative fan reaction. Plus as you said, Arianne will sure give HBO some good sex scenes.

[GallowKnight]

Oberyn is obviously too much of a fan favourite to cut from the show. Imagine the fan rage if that happened.

And seriously, there is no way HBO is going to pass up on some Oberyn/Ros action.

[As high as honor]

I'm not sure where this notion of Dorne being left out of the show came from. Dorne has been mentioned on the show numerous times. And even in the books, Dorne is only mentioned in AGOT & ACOK. We're not introduced to any character until ASOS (Oberyn). So I'm guessing we would get introduced to Oberyn somewhere in season 3 maybe 4 depending on how the writers will play with the timing. Plus I believe Marcella is about to take off to Dorne in an upcoming episode (whether to be betrothed to Trystan on the show is yet to be seen).

Do you really think the writers would take out one of the greatest fight scenes from the books? That wouldn't sit well with fans.

[teemo]

Yes...I can just imagine this board exploding into fury if they dropped Oberyn. There's no reason for him to be cut either, considering how short-lived he is.

[Lord Davos Seaworth]

I don't think so... main reasoning being although they may not seem important to the plot now, you better bet that Arienne and the Sand Snakes will have a big influence in the last two novels to come... and for this to all happen, Oberyn needs to die (not to mention that would be an awesome battle for the show!)

As to the importance of Quentyn...

Although his quest may not seem necessary, it was important to foreshadow that not anyone can be a dragonrider.. he was the first of many to come to encounter such a fate.

[Raksha the Demon]

I've never been crazy about Arianne; but I'd rather see five scenes of her in the TV series than one more scene with Roz.

[spork]

Amen to that.

I think there will be a substantial reduction if not a complete cut of most of the Dorne plot line. I don't really consider Oberyn to be part of that though, as his storyline mostly takes place in KL. That's going to be an awesome scene, can't wait to see it.

[peash]

I think the Dornish plotline can't be cut. Doran is a chessmaster no more than half a step down from Littlefinger and Varys; Arianne, while a failure gives some interesting conflict in what are some pretty lean books for that sort of thing, and Hotah is one of my favourite characters.

Also its not going to take too much time, you need a scene establishing Arianne' conflict with Doran, a scene of her and Oakheart setting up the Myrcella plot, one scene of them leaving, one scene of the plot failing, one scene of Doran and Arianne settling their differences and the arrival of Gregor's head and the subsequent set up for Winds. Thats maybe 20 minutes out of 20+ hours of television that will make up feast and dance