[TWoW Spoilers] Tyrion I

[theemir87]

Dany won't marry Daario because is a sellsword she won't marry victorian because he will expected her to submit to him. i think Dany won't marry until she crosses the sea,

[iamthedave]

And George may just be putting that in so that we don't think about the one who really is a Targaryen (Jon), just like he put Aegon in.

What, George put in a series of subtle hints to try and misdirect the online part of his audience who have already decided en masse that R + L = J is gospel? If so he's failed miserably. The best it's done is make people think that Tyrion is a Targ as well.

Jorah Mormont will not survive this book. Not with Barriston, Daario, and Victarion there. One wants to protect her and the other two are on the prowl...there's no way he can compete.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Barristan won't do a thing unless ordered to do so, Daario is actually far more likely to die than Jorah, and Victarion is... well... Victarion. Why the two would even be in conflict I don't know.

Unless Dany does decide to hold up on her threat of killing him if she ever sets eyes on him again (unlikely) it's more like she'll forgive him past deeds and let him go on with his life in the Second Sons. Not to mention that Jorah Mormont is a double hard bastard, and to date Daario is all talk, a matter often forgotten when discussion of him comes up.

Jorah Mormont is an ally of Tyrion Lannister, and if there is any semi-safe place to be, at the dwarf's side is the place. Remember Bronn? Jorah has basically become Bronn 2: Second Son.

[Ghost714]

What, George put in a series of subtle hints to try and misdirect the online part of his audience who have already decided en masse that R + L = J is gospel? If so he's failed miserably. The best it's done is make people think that Tyrion is a Targ as well.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Barristan won't do a thing unless ordered to do so, Daario is actually far more likely to die than Jorah, and Victarion is... well... Victarion. Why the two would even be in conflict I don't know.

Unless Dany does decide to hold up on her threat of killing him if she ever sets eyes on him again (unlikely) it's more like she'll forgive him past deeds and let him go on with his life in the Second Sons. Not to mention that Jorah Mormont is a double hard bastard, and to date Daario is all talk, a matter often forgotten when discussion of him comes up.

Jorah Mormont is an ally of Tyrion Lannister, and if there is any semi-safe place to be, at the dwarf's side is the place. Remember Bronn? Jorah has basically become Bronn 2: Second Son.

You don't know that Daario is all talk. I think there is just as much proof of Daario being a badass, as there is with Ser Jorah, maybe even more so with Daario. This guy killed his two fellow captains, and is now leading 500 Sellswords, you don't get to do that without being pretty good with a sword. Also Ser Barristan seems to think Daario is a competent swordsman, same with Dany, I think they would no better than us. Also there is that scene where Daario returns to Meereen covered in blood, and it all belonged to the people he killed, when he had to cut through another Free Company, to get back to Meereen. Dany also thinks to herself that one day Daario will be attacked by ten men, and they will kill him, but not before he kills half of them. If Ser Barristan the Bold thinks Daario is a competent Sellsword when it comes to killing, then that probably means its true, because Selmy is the best of them all.

I am not saying Ser Jorah is not good, I know he is, it's just that we also have proof to suggest Daario is also good, and I feel like your ignoring that, because you dont like Daario. I agree Daario is very cocky, but I do believe he can back up a lot of what he says. The Stormcrows are fiercely loyal to Daario, after he killed two of their old Captains. So I can't see them being that loyal to Daario if he was just a bag of wind.

I don't see how Tyrion could save Jorah, if Dany wanted him dead. I don't think she will, but I am just saying. Also, Jorah despised Tyrion for the longest time, he just now started being civil to Tyrion, now that they joined the Second Sons. Also Bronn loved gold more than anything, so that's why he and Tyrion were such a good fit. Jorah however, he wants Dany, that's not something Tyrion can promise him. So I really don't see Ser Jorah as Bronn 2.0.

[the Scorpion Knight]

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Barristan won't do a thing unless ordered to do so, Daario is actually far more likely to die than Jorah, and Victarion is... well... Victarion. Why the two would even be in conflict I don't know.

jorah is a mormont that fought in the greyjoy rebellion thats more than enough for friction

[Ghost714]

jorah is a mormont that fought in the greyjoy rebellion thats more than enough for friction

I agree that there will be friction between Ser Jorah and Victarion, not only because the Greyjoy Rebellion, but because the Ironborn have been Raiding on Bear Island for as long as the Mormonts have ruled there. That's why even the woman have to grow up learning how to fight, because when the men are off fishing, the woman have to be able to protect themselves and their children, when the Ironborn come. However, that's not to say Ser Jorah will be trying to fight Victarion, if Dany does not want it. Ser Jorah is not going to do anything to mess up his chances with Dany again this time.

Same goes for Daario, people think that Ser Jorah is going to wipe the floor with Daario, as soon as they are in the same room or something. First off, I don't even think its a for sure thing that Ser Jorah could even best Daario Naharis. People think Daario is just a bag of wind, but in truth, there is evidence to suggest that Daario is not just all talk. Secondly, like I said before, Ser Jorah is not going to do anything to screw up his shot of Dany taking him back. Especially not after everything he has gone through to get back to Dany.

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

I'm very worried for Dany due to Victarrion and the red priest....and who is this "Archmaester Marwyn" and how do we know he's also on his way to Daaenerys Targaryen?

I really hope they don't kill Daario and the other hostages.

And lets not forget that Ser Barristan sent the 2 Dornish knights undercover to rescue them. I wonder what Ser Barristan will do when he hears about Aegon back in Westeros? I think he'll stay loyal to Dany but it will def make him wonder....

[Tini]

Archmaester Marwyn is an archmaester (the Archmaester for Magic) who Sam Tarly meets at the Citadel. He left the Citadel with the expressed intention of crossing the sea to meet Daenerys, and provide her council. We have not heard from him since, but we have not been given any hints that his intention to meet Queen Daenerys have changed.

I think Ser Barristan will only consider joining Aegon if he thinks that Daenerys is dead. As long as he believes her to be alive, he will stay loyal.

He might advise Dany to join forces with her nephew but only if he believes that Aegon is real, and not touched by Targaryen madness. It will be interesting to see what Barristan makes of Aegon. And what Varys will do about Barristan. If Aegon is fake, Varys might fear that Barristan could prove it, as Barristan is one of the last people alive who were close to baby Aegon during the last days of the siege.

[Ghost714]

I'm very worried for Dany due to Victarrion and the red priest....and who is this "Archmaester Marwyn" and how do we know he's also on his way to Daaenerys Targaryen?

I really hope they don't kill Daario and the other hostages.

And lets not forget that Ser Barristan sent the 2 Dornish knights undercover to rescue them. I wonder what Ser Barristan will do when he hears about Aegon back in Westeros? I think he'll stay loyal to Dany but it will def make him wonder....

"Tini" already addresses Archmaester Marwin, so I will address the "Red Priest" with Victarion.

His name is Moqorro, and he is a Red Priest from Volantis sent to Dany by the leader of the Red Priests in Volantis. The head Red Priest for Volantis is named Benerro, he sent Moqorro to help Dany, knowing that Moqorro would end up on Victarion's ship, and that Victarion would take Moqorro to Dany. The Red Priests of Volantis are all for Daenerys, the believe she is Azor Ahai reborn. So I think it's safe to not be worried about Moqurro, he will do anything to help Dany, who he believes to be the savior of the world. If anything, I am not really worried about Victarion Greyjoy, because I believe Moqorro has tricked Victarion into believing he is there to help him, when in reality Moqurro will do anything to keep Victarion from harming Dany. That includes Victarion trying to steal Dany's Dragons, with his Dragon Horn.

Moqorro is very powerful, educated, and good at seeing the future in his flames, and he has the advantage of Victarion thinking he is on his side. So in my opinion, Victarion does not stand a mummers chance against Moqorro.

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

Oh I knew who Moquorro was. I just wasn't clear if it was yet another character with a theory surrounding their "secret" origins or identity. Hence I wasn't sure if Moquorro was somehow the Archmaester.

Aegon definitely complicates matters. Part of me thinks he may die and welcomes it because I love Daenerys but another part of me doesn't want that to happ

Arianne will definitely not marry Aegon. Shes way too old.

Sansa would be the better match....

[CrypticWeirwood]

Arianne will definitely not marry Aegon. Shes way too old.

She’s five years older than Aegon. So what? A ten-year-old boy would think a fifteen-year-old to be too old, but once you grow up a little, stupid little differences like a five year gap become as nothing.

But she doesn’t need to marry her cousin.

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

I'm just saying in the world of Westeros and based off the previous novels I just don't think its something that would happen. I mean aside from Maegary Tyrell and little Tommen there really isn't a huge precedent for that type of marriage.

I agree its probably not a big deal to most people. To me it would be if I were in either of their shoes.

As for the cousins factor that really doesn't matter. I mean Tywin Lannister married Joanna who was his cousin. And there are plenty of other cases where cousins have married....

I am curious tho to see who Arianne ends up with given her age.

[BlueHighwind]

Jorah Mormont will not survive this book. Not with Barriston, Daario, and Victarion there. One wants to protect her and the other two are on the prowl...there's no way he can compete.

No! Not Jorah! He's in my Top 5 of characters!

Hopefully Joran and Daario have some kind of duel, and Jorah wins.

(Also, I'm pretty sure that if Daario needed to, he would join with the Slaver's in a second to save his own skin, if he hasn't already. The guy is pretty much the world's biggest sleezeball.)

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

I miss Khal Drogo....I know it was necessary for him to die so Dany could grow as a character but I think its sad that the only one of her suitors I truly liked her with is dead.

I knew Quentyn was gonna be boring and I don't really like Daario as described in the novels. Jorah Mormont is too old and I that Hizdar person is a joke. It was a bad idea for her to marry a foreigner and its not going to make it any easier for her to gain acceptance in Westeros if shes already married.

With only 2 books left though I don't see how a new viable love interest can be introduced tho and Martin make it seem authentic. Perhaps Jon Snow but I have no idea how they would even meet...

[Ghost714]

No! Not Jorah! He's in my Top 5 of characters!

Hopefully Joran and Daario have some kind of duel, and Jorah wins.

(Also, I'm pretty sure that if Daario needed to, he would join with the Slaver's in a second to save his own skin, if he hasn't already. The guy is pretty much the world's biggest sleezeball.)

So the guy who sold Dany out isn't a "sleezeball", but the guy who gave her the Stormcrows, and the Lhazareen(the lamb men) as an ally, he is?

I like Ser Jorah as much as you, I just don't think Daario is as bad as people think he is. He has actually been very loyal to Dany. Daario could have turned his cloak back to the Yunkai, at the same time as Brown Ben Plumm did, but he didn't. Instead Daario and his men cut through the Windblown, to get back to Meereen, and Daenerys, their Queen. Daario also agreed to be a hostage for the Yunkai, because Dany asked him to.

And if Ser Jorah and Daario were to get in a fight, I am not so confident as most people, that Ser Jorah would "wipe the floor" with Daario. There is actually quite a bit of evidence to suggest Daario is not just all talk, for those who choose to see it. Daario killed his two former fellow Captains, to bring the Stormcrows over to Dany. The Stormcrows are fiercely loyal to Daario, that's part of the reason why Ser Barristan is so adamant about getting Daario rescued, so he is no longer a a hostage for the Yunkai, because Ser Barristan needs the Stormcrows against the Yunkai, and they will only help when Daario is returned. Daario isn't a genius or anything, he isn't the best at making the Stormcrows money or anything. So the only reason why the Stormcrows would be so loyal, is if Daario is actually one hell of a fighter. There was also that time, when Daario got back to Meereen, he reported to Dany that the Second Sons had turned their cloaks again, and he was covered in blood, it was dripping all over Dany's room, and none of it was his. Ithe blood was from when him and his men cut through the Windblown to get back to Meereen. So I think there is just as much, if not more evidence to suggest that Daario is a good fighter, in comparison to the evidence that we have for Ser Jorah being a good fighter. That's why if they did fight, which I can't really think of how that would happen, I don't know who would win. It's not like Ser Jorah is going to just emediately attack Daario on sight, he won't want to screw up his shot of Dany taking him back.

[Finlay]

Glad Tryions back to his funniest

[Ser Giant]

A fully armored, slave-hardened, extremely pissed-off Ser Jorah would completely destroy a Daario Naharis in single combat.

With everyone converging in Slaver's Bay, like this chapter shows, I fully expect to be left with a single POV by the end of the battle. It's really starting to sound like Winds will be more epic than A Storm of Swords!

[iamthedave]

I am not saying Ser Jorah is not good, I know he is, it's just that we also have proof to suggest Daario is also good, and I feel like your ignoring that, because you dont like Daario. I agree Daario is very cocky, but I do believe he can back up a lot of what he says. The Stormcrows are fiercely loyal to Daario, after he killed two of their old Captains. So I can't see them being that loyal to Daario if he was just a bag of wind.

I didn't say Daario wasn't good. You're putting something in my mouth there. All I said was that Daario is far more likely to die than Jorah. Why? Because he's currently a prisoner in the camp of people who just decided to go to war with Dany, and we know he's unarmed. Admittedly he is a prisoner of the Yunkish and to be honest you and I probably have even odds of escaping that lot, and that's with a leg sawed off. But flat out, Jorah is in a safer position than Daario right now.

My point is that Daario is unproven, and he is. We've never seen him fight on the page. Not once.

Barristan does think he's a good fighter. But how good is not answered by Barristan's appraisal. He thinks one or two of his students are good fighters, too. That tells us nothing about how good they are. Bear in mind that this is a fantasy story. There are good fighters everywhere, dripping off almost any page you can pick out at random.

Furthermore Daario is a hothead and he seems extremely jealous. I would say he is AT LEAST as likely as Jorah Mormont to do something stupid over love for Dany. hence why I say he is at least if not more likely to die than Barristan or Jorah. It's been a month or two since I read Dance now, but wasn't Daario sent out of Meereen because Dany was worried about him growing violent after her marriage?

Barristan: Almost certainly going to survive. Heart attack may get him before anything else.

Jorah: I think will survive due to association with Tyrion (who consistently tries to do right by those who are on his side, even though they've not been friendly at all). His feelings for Dany could still get him killed though.

Daario: I think will die due to his own incredibly violent nature and established short temper.

Victarion: I think is most likely to die of the four just looking at the situation. May have plot protection though. All three of the previous guys would be happy to kill him for one reason or another, he intends to 'master' Dany (yeah that'll work) and even above that he's up against Euron Crow's Eye. That's not a favourable fight for a man as thick as Viccy.

EDIT: I'd also suggest you put undue weight on the death of the two Stormcrow captains. How precisely do you think that went down?

Likewise, battlefield fighting and one-on-one fighting are very different things. Can Daario perform in a melee? Unquestionably, otherwise he wouldn't be a sellsword captain. Just as Brown Ben Plumm is unquestionably a far hardier and far better fighter than I think anyone would assume. That doesn't mean that either of them are strong duellists or that they can handle a knight like Jorah Mormont. It doesn't mean they cannot either, but I know Jorah is a bad ass, I don't know that about Daario. There just isn't much confirmed about his abilities.

If you want to bring inference into the matter, then there's no point in even attempting to discuss it because his skill then becomes 'whatever I choose to infer'. Whatever conclusions we come to become arbitrary. So I decline to make a decision about Daario's actual ability, save to say he's nowhere near as good as he claims to be, which is self-evident truth.

[aryagonnakill]

Give Dany a break, will you? The prime reason she stayed in Essos was to learn how to rule and give time for her dragons to be of use in war. She has taken decisions too wise for her age - marrying Hizdahr to bring peace, rejecting Quentyn at the cost of Dorne's help, rejecting Daario as suitor (unlike Robb Stark who gave in to his teenage lust), softening on her stand on fighting pits for her people even though she finds it unethical/barbarian. The only reason her chapters sounded boring because managing a kingdom is indeed boring, it's not about fighting wars all the time. She needed a vacation from all the stress and Drogon gave her that!

forgive me if im not understanding you right but... it sounds like your saying those were good decisions. Marrying hizdahr was one of the worst decisions ive ever heard. As soon as he made the offer to end the harpies attacks it was immediatly made clear that he was either the or a harpy and knew the rest. he should have been tortured or murdered or whatever along with the rest of the nobles of meeren. The reopening of the fighting pits would have been a good way to draw all of these nobles out of the pyramid fortress's but she did not use it in that fasion. Not marrying dario was a good decision obviously but it was not much of a decision although your comparison to robb stark is fair. But not accepting quentyn... With aegon available there is a small opportunity where their marriage would be best but that might not be an option by the time she reaches westeros. With the information dany had available at the time she should have been single because she had killed hizdahr instead of marry him, and she should have married quentyn, or agreed to consider the proposal at the least while they return to westeros via dorne. Also the whole meeren yunkai situation should never have come about because she should have left a lord in astapor, then killed all the nobles in yunkai and left another lord there. If she had landed in dorne, even promised to guentyn, the arrival of rhaegar would have changed everything. If Rhaegar brought the golden company and storm lands, and dany brough her khalasar, unsullied, other followers, and was able to come to some other deal with dorne, then the crown would be hers and rhaegars.

[DurararaFTW]

I'm just saying in the world of Westeros and based off the previous novels I just don't think its something that would happen. I mean aside from Maegary Tyrell and little Tommen there really isn't a huge precedent for that type of marriage.

I agree its probably not a big deal to most people. To me it would be if I were in either of their shoes.

As for the cousins factor that really doesn't matter. I mean Tywin Lannister married Joanna who was his cousin. And there are plenty of other cases where cousins have married....

I am curious tho to see who Arianne ends up with given her age.

Rhaegar went for Lyanna who was 9 years younger then her, Viserys was intending to marry Dany who was like, seven years younger then her, Ramsey married Lady Hornwood who was way older then him, Tywin offered Cersei's hand in marriage to Rhaegar who was 6 years older then her when she was like, 12, Willas is a lot older then Sansa, Walder Freys wives go without saying, Lysa Tully was married of to Jon Arryn when she was like 14 when Jon Arryn was old enough to be her grandfather, Arya was suppose to be an 11 year old girl when Ramsey married her.

18 year old Aegon marrying 23 year old Arianne is nothing, come on now.

[qixoticneurotic]

knight and northman, slaver and slave, noble and sellsword, there is no person more singularly qualified in experience to rule slavers bay then jorah mormont. his loyalty to daenarys and therefore the throne is beyond question and his prize will be to be left behind. the key to winning chess is thinking several moves ahead, thats why tyrion made a point to keep that peice in his pocket. hizdahr is the blood of the harpy but we know little of the eligible females of the old ghiscari line. danys mistake wasnt in marryng for peace but in elevating peace in a part of the kingdom for the whole thing. she is the blood of dragons and even kings are Beneath her.