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Ran

[TWoW Spoilers] Tyrion I

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Wait, so this is Euron arriving and not Victarion? Do we know for a fact that Euron isn't still raiding the Reach?

No, we haven't seen Euron since AFFC, when he was still at the Shield Islands. When I said he's with the Iron Fleet in Essos I was just speculating. But it's a pretty common speculation, because otherwise, considering travel time, Euron wouldn't be able to personally affect Dany / Victarion until least Book 7.

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Someone asked whether this is a newly written chapter.

The answer, I think, is no. When he finished aDwD, he said he was going to take a break from aSoIaF for other projects, and resume writing aSoIaF by the beginning of 2012.

3+ months in to 2012, the only news is that he is months overdue on those other projects.

When he finished Dance, he had about 100 pages that were sufficiently polished to turn into his editor, and many more pages (+100?) written. Now, he says he has 200 pages written. People have siezed on these words to conclude he has done 100 pages of additional writing, but obviously that does not follow.

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This sounds like another great chapter! And another chapter that could have made the end of "A Dance With Dragons" even stronger! Had the Victarion Chapter and this Tyrion Chapter been included then we would have been very happy people... Especially if the Meereen storyline ended with Dragon banners on the horizon!

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Well, Loras, we would be HAPPIER people. More progress is better. But it is all relative, and disappointment is based on expectations. GRRM once led us to believe that Dany's invasion of Westeros would occur in Book 4.

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I don't get all the hatred of the idea that Tyrion is a Targ. I think it is a far more interesting twist than R+L=J.

I also agree that dragons change everything for Dany. She is the best known Targ and if she shows up riding a massive dragon that roasts a few opponents Westeros will kneel to her in short order no matter who she comes with. The fact she will likely have Unsullied and possibly Dothraki with her (which would be far more than Aegon the Conqueror had) makes her even more invincible. So long as she doesn't kill lots of women and children for fun (which the opposite is more likely, meaning she is too soft) the people of Westeros will love her. So long as she controls her dragons no one can control her. I also can't see Euron getting a dragon in any circumstance and would be surprised if Dany married Victarion because she has only one more man to marry after she disposes of Hizdahr zo Loraq. I don't see how Victarion could be Dany's final husband.

My hope is they can just find a way to wrap up the story in Mereen ASAP and get her on her way to Westeros.

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Speaking for myself, I just find the idea of Tyrion being a Targ to be too much. It would make the book seem like the third Pirates of the Caribbean trying to stack as many plot twists as it can into the story. Tyrion has an interesting and established history that is both believable and seems to fit well with the sort of person he is.

edit: I meant to ask if there was a trascript of this chapter yet

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This sounds like another great chapter! And another chapter that could have made the end of "A Dance With Dragons" even stronger! Had the Victarion Chapter and this Tyrion Chapter been included then we would have been very happy people... Especially if the Meereen storyline ended with Dragon banners on the horizon!

Agreed. I don't think Anne Groell is doing a particularly good job as editor for GRRM.

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Speaking for myself, I just find the idea of Tyrion being a Targ to be too much. It would make the book seem like the third Pirates of the Caribbean trying to stack as many plot twists as it can into the story. Tyrion has an interesting and established history that is both believable and seems to fit well with the sort of person he is.

edit: I meant to ask if there was a trascript of this chapter yet

I hate that this theory is bantered about, just as much as I hate the theory that somehow Jaime and Cersei are the children of Aerys Targaryen. All of Tywin's children are his. I agree that Tryion being a Targ would be way over the top. It would also ruin Genna Lannisters strong proclamation that Tyrion is Tywin 2.0.

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It makes a lot of sense. The three main characters all had mothers who died giving birth to them. All three are thought little of because they were born girl, dwarf, and bastard, yet come to excel above those lacking those properties. It makes sense that all three also have a Targaryen father, and it's nicely symmetric that Jon thinks he is a bastard but isn't while Tyrion thinks he is not a bastard but is. There's also a nice interlocking symmetry with Tyrion and Jaime each killing each other's father.

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It makes a lot of sense. The three main characters all had mothers who died giving birth to them. All three are thought little of because they were born girl, dwarf, and bastard, yet come to excel above those lacking those properties. It makes sense that all three also have a Targaryen father, and it's nicely symmetric that Jon thinks he is a bastard but isn't while Tyrion thinks he is not a bastard but is. There's also a nice interlocking symmetry with Tyrion and Jaime each killing each other's father.

There is just no way that Lady Johana would betray Tywin from what we know of her and there is no way Tywin would leave his wife alone with Aerys. There just would be no time or opportunity for this to have happened.

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Someone asked whether this is a newly written chapter.

The answer, I think, is no. When he finished aDwD, he said he was going to take a break from aSoIaF for other projects, and resume writing aSoIaF by the beginning of 2012.

3+ months in to 2012, the only news is that he is months overdue on those other projects.

When he finished Dance, he had about 100 pages that were sufficiently polished to turn into his editor, and many more pages (+100?) written. Now, he says he has 200 pages written. People have siezed on these words to conclude he has done 100 pages of additional writing, but obviously that does not follow.

From this interview, Martin is expecting 3000 manuscript pages to finish up the series. So 100 pages or 200 pages would still only be a range between 7-13%, keeping in mind that almost all of that was the pre-written material he cut from aDwD. So, we're a hell of a long ways to go from even being able to guess at how long will be the wait. We'll have to see how much headway Martin made by the end of 2013 to start ballparking how long until the next book, assuming that he doesn't have to do a complete rewrite again.

http://www.smartertr...tml?id=10593041

I don't get all the hatred of the idea that Tyrion is a Targ. I think it is a far more interesting twist than R+L=J.

I also agree that dragons change everything for Dany. She is the best known Targ and if she shows up riding a massive dragon that roasts a few opponents Westeros will kneel to her in short order no matter who she comes with. The fact she will likely have Unsullied and possibly Dothraki with her (which would be far more than Aegon the Conqueror had) makes her even more invincible. So long as she doesn't kill lots of women and children for fun (which the opposite is more likely, meaning she is too soft) the people of Westeros will love her. So long as she controls her dragons no one can control her. I also can't see Euron getting a dragon in any circumstance and would be surprised if Dany married Victarion because she has only one more man to marry after she disposes of Hizdahr zo Loraq. I don't see how Victarion could be Dany's final husband.

My hope is they can just find a way to wrap up the story in Mereen ASAP and get her on her way to Westeros.

I think you will get your wish. In the above interview he says he will open with the battle of Slaver's Bay and the battle in the ice (most likely, Stannis) in the beginning. That should mean that Dany is out of Mereen by the middle of the book and traveling towards Westeros. Since the Euron plot-thread is hanging out there she might get sidetracked en route meaning a Westos landing might get delayed until the very end. But through the magic of POVs he could just have nothing major happen with sea travel and land her after a POV or two. Since I don't think the POVs in aDwD were anchored with Westeros time Martin shouldn't have any timeline issues if he goes this route. Sea travel is considerably faster than land travel plus Martin could speed up the return voyage with a monsoon type weather pattern (this was a big factor in eastern medieval trading patterns, which were largely dependent on when the monsoon winds were blowing)

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nategatorc wrote:

From this interview, Martin is expecting 3000 manuscript pages to finish up the series. So 100 pages or 200 pages would still only be a range between 7-13%, keeping in mind that almost all of that was the pre-written material he cut from aDwD. So, we're a hell of a long ways to go from even being able to guess at how long will be the wait. We'll have to see how much headway Martin made by the end of 2013 to start ballparking how long until the next book, assuming that he doesn't have to do a complete rewrite again.

I think it can safely be assumed he has written nothing of tWoW in the last 9 months. As he keeps making clear, he is too busy working on projects designed to cash in on his success: the map book; the anthologies; the stories to contribute to anthologies. He had mentioned 5 such projects, none of them being Winds.

Did I hear him right that he is now working on TWO stories? "She Wolves of Winterfell" I knew about. What's the other one? His priority right now, and his publisher's, is to release titles with his name on it while the [HBO] series is popular. "Strike while the iron is hot."

If he releases both by the end of the year, and they both turn out to have a total combined length of 300 manuscript pages, then at least we will know he can still produce that many pages in a year ... assuming he doesn't get distracted again.

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There is this optimistic side of me that Martin is playing it coy and basically dismissing all talk of WoW. He really got burned on DwD and all the pressure to finish it and I think we are much more likely to be surprised by him suddenly having taken big leaps forward. My expectation is we will get very little in terms of accurate updates on the progress of WoW and are much more likely to hear it is delayed even if it isn't. He knows if he even hints at a timeline or progress that is all he will hear from that point onward, especially with his increased celebrity and the interest in the books. At the same time he likely has more help now than ever before in terms of assistants, editors, and such. This is especially true of some of the "other projects", many of which really don't require him to write new material but rather to edit the work of others.

I also think that the Mereenese knot bogged him down but he seems to have found his way out now and he speaks more and more about how he knows how the series will end. The tough part is not the writing, it is the imagination. If he knows where he wants to go he could crank it out rather quickly just as he did in the earlier books. I also think Parris is in his ear and is going to put a lot of pressure on him to focus on the masterpiece.

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Look I know your all eager to know when the next book is coming out and speculate on everything and some of you may think he's deliberatly producing other stuff while he's selling well. Well the truth is George always has many projects on the go, its the way he writes. He does not need to spin this out to make as much money as possible. He could easlily not write another thing for the rest of his life and still not spend all his earnings.

George does not like to give pojections or estimated guidelines because he's always way to overly optomistic with them and people for some reason expect the deadlines to be worst case senarios. George has tried before being completely open with his progress, this did not work. he tried not to say anything. this did not work. the truth is George can't win. no matter what he says people will winge and moan at him.

At teh Con (a couple of days after this reading) George did mention some of these other projects one of which is over a year late because he's been working on Dance so much at everything else's expense. I very much doubt George will write new SOIAF till at least september maybe at all this year.

I would also expect a 3 year wait till George starts making optomistic posts hinting at light at the end of the tunnel. - when you see these half hints on his Blog then expect a min of a year possibly 2 before the first draft is complete.

it might be a pessemistic point of view, but its probably realistic and means I'm not gonna be dissapointed.

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Well said Pebs.

Besides what had already been said about the chapter, I honestly don't remember much more than "Thump... Thump, thump" from the reading... Trebuchets of the different companies besieging Meereen, sending pale mare victims over the Walls, and how Brown Ben didn't like the sound of it. It was quite funny how it was described.

So Ben is edgy, not in his best, and Tyrion is confident during the cyvasse game.

Speculation: Second Sons will change sides as Tyrion wants, and I think that is also very likely for the Tattered Prince, Vic is sailing in and more help is coming. So I think Meereen is not going to fall, unless diplomacy and communications goes out the window because of Barristan, dragons or something else. Dany could well be a unifier of these different factions, even in her absence.

I don't really know where she is going, but I think that whatever she does, Meereen is going to be ruled by some kind of council if she does not return soon, or if at all. I think Tyrion is being set up to a position of power in Meereen, since he has the Second Sons and the wit to make some coordination of the forces happen, and I don't think Brown Ben was wrong in suspecting he himself would not be treated well by the Meereenese (I have a feeling he will meet his end in Tyrion who does not trust the man) if turning his cloak once more.

Tyrions clever mind will reveal the Harpy!Green Grace and heads, spikes, walls for a lot of the Meereenese nobles.

Um, that's it for now... :leaving:

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Thanks Eira Eaeron I, I knew you would post more details for us, and I hope you had a good time while you were there!

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Thanks Elaena, I'm sorry I don't have anything more to share, but I think the chapter has been summarized pretty well already. There was not much more to it. :) It was excellent to be there and hear George tell it...

(and yes it's me! I went back to the Danbo av so I'm still recognizable to some of you)

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Well it's still great because we are rabid for any info at all! You know not all of us got to go and see George read a new chapter from a very anticapated book! :devil: Yes I'm jealous! I'm grown-up enough to admit it. Seriously though I'm glad you got to go, it must have beem amazing! :)

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