A Thread for Small Questions XVI

[Dr. Pepper]

He worships the old gods so he can't be a knight.

Is this true? Those who worship the old gods can't be a night? I think I remember that some knighthood ceremonies involves the blessing of the seven or something, but it doesn't always happen that way. The wiki is sort of unclear about it but it doesn't seem to say outright whether old gods worshippers are strictly forbidden from obtaining knighthood.

[The Imp With A Pimp Limp]

Is this true? Those who worship the old gods can't be a night? I think I remember that some knighthood ceremonies involves the blessing of the seven or something, but it doesn't always happen that way. The wiki is sort of unclear about it but it doesn't seem to say outright whether old gods worshippers are strictly forbidden from obtaining knighthood.

Jorah and Rodrik Cassels are knights, off the top of my head. I think that knighting ceremonies are like weddings. The northernmen can do one and still worship the old gods, it is not something exclusive to people who worship the seven im pretty sure.

Also a knight can make another knight and there were over 600 knights made after the battle of the blackwater, so maybe it's not necessary to have a huge ceremony but it can be done. Maybe kind of how some people do big parties for first communions and others don't ? I would also think that when a heir to a house or an important noble is knighted there would be a ceremony but not for some hedge knight who proved his honor during a battle

[DaveSumm]

On another point, but related. It's something I didn't understand about Joffrey. Am I totally forgetting a coronation? I might be. But take Queen Elizabeth, her father died, she suceeded to the crown, but there was still a coronation ceremony. I don't know enough about royal rules of inheritance off hand, I'll have to look it up. But certainly, it's a question of "The king is dead, long live the king!", so the heir steps in to fill the vacuum, or rather, there is no vacuum. The king dies, there's immediately a new king. But I think there should still be a coronation to confirm the title passing. The problem in ASOIAF being that Joffrey stepping in is being challenged. Any ideas?

I thought that Cersei ruled in his stead as Queen Regent, and there would then have been a coronation when Joffrey came of age? Not sure though. I remember Roberts will requesting that Ned rule until 'the heir' came of age, I assumed that when Ned died Cersei just took his place.

[Teal'c]

The Purple Wedding perhaps?

There you go. Wiki is wrong. There are four instances. The Purple Wedding is like Craster's, where the guests violate rather than the host.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Is this true? Those who worship the old gods can't be a night? I think I remember that some knighthood ceremonies involves the blessing of the seven or something, but it doesn't always happen that way. The wiki is sort of unclear about it but it doesn't seem to say outright whether old gods worshippers are strictly forbidden from obtaining knighthood.

Normally knights are anointed in the Faith of the Seven, but there are some northern knights, like Jorah and Rodrik. Whether they worship the Seven or the old gods only, or both, I don't know. But knighthood in general is more of a southern tradition, and I'm under the impression that hardcore old god worshipers wouldn't be keen on it. I think this is why northern representation in the Kingsguard is so little — you have to be a knight and not many northerners are.

[Dragonfish]

Is this true? Those who worship the old gods can't be a night? I think I remember that some knighthood ceremonies involves the blessing of the seven or something, but it doesn't always happen that way. The wiki is sort of unclear about it but it doesn't seem to say outright whether old gods worshippers are strictly forbidden from obtaining knighthood.

George has said before that knighthood is exclusive to followers of the Seven. However, I wouldn't go so far as to say that followers of the old gods are barred from the institution. As long as they are willing to take part in the knighting ceremony, which involves certain rituals that are exclusive to the Faith, then they can probably be knights. Or alternatively, northerners may be knighted for valor, and simply accept the gesture for the honor of it, even if in their hearts they are followers of the old gods. Well, that's my opinion, at least.

[Lady Octarina]

Why does Masha chew sourleaf? Does her "hideous" red smile foreshadow death in the inn later in the series? That's the only thing I can think of to why he puts so much emphasis on her sourleaf smile when she's introduced.

Well, you can certainly interpret it that way, but I think George simply likes to describe those hideous smiles. She's not the only character addicted to sourleaf; I can remember at least two references to that practice in the D&E stories, and there are probably more in the main series as well. The curious thing is that it's always commoners or lower knights who have the habit, isn't it? I don't remember any great lord described chewing it.

George has said before that knighthood is exclusive to followers of the Seven. However, I wouldn't go so far as to say that followers of the old gods are barred from the institution. As long as they are willing to take part in the knighting ceremony, which involves certain rituals that are exclusive to the Faith, then they can probably be knights. Or alternatively, northerners may be knighted for valor, and simply accept the gesture for the honor of it, even if in their hearts they are followers of the old gods. Well, that's my opinion, at least.

I agree with this; also, I think they simply don't see much importance in being a knight. I see this as something similar to a wedding ceremony in a church - a religious person generally think it's important to have one, whereas a non-religious might have one to please the family or simply stick to tradition, but simply doesn't see what difference that will make to their lives.

[Elaena Targaryen]

What does khas mean, and is it short for khalasar, or is a khal as head needed? Next what is a ko exactly and is it similar or the same as bloodrider, or blood of my blood? The usage of ko seems different for Dany and the men, like with the men the ko's became khal's ( and is a khas a smaller group within the bigger group? ) so can Dany's ko's or bloodriders become khals if they don't follow her to the night lands? These quotes are from AGOT...

A mounted warrior rode up and vaulted from his saddle. He spoke to Haggo, a stream of angry

Dothraki too fast for Dany to understand. The huge bloodrider gave her a heavy look before he turned to his khaL "This one is Mago, who rides in the khas of Ko Jhaqo. He says the khaleesi has taken his

spoils, a daughter of the lambs who was his to mount."

"The Dothraki follow only the strong," Ser Jorah said. "I am sorry, my princess. There was no way to

hold them. Ko Pono left first, naming himself Khal Pono, and many followed him. Jhaqo was not long to do the same.

Before I am done with them, Mago and Ko Jhaqo will plead for the mercy they showed Eroeh.

She turned to the three young warriors of her khas. "Jhogo, to you I give the silver-handled whip that was my bride gift, and name you ko, and ask your oath, that you will live and die as blood of my blood, riding at my side to keep me safe from harm." Jhogo took the whip from her hands, but his face was confused. "Khaleesi, " he said hesitantly, "this isnot done. It would shame me, to be bloodrider to a woman."....

"Aggo," Dany called, paying no heed to Jhogo's words. If I look back I am lost. "To you I give the

dragonbone bow that was my bride gift." It was double-curved, shiny black and exquisite, taller than she was. "I name you ko, and ask your oath, that you should live and die as blood of my blood, riding at my side to keep me safe from harm." Aggo accepted the bow with lowered eyes. "I cannot say these words. Only a man can lead a khalasar or name a ko."....

"Rakharo," Dany said, turning away from the refusal, "you shall have the great arakh that was my bride

gift, with hilt and blade chased in gold. And you too I name my ko, and ask that you live and die as blood of my blood, riding at my side to keep me safe from harm."....

[Serie]

What does khas mean, and is it short for khalasar, or is a khal as head needed? Next what is a ko exactly and is it similar or the same as bloodrider, or blood of my blood? The usage of ko seems different for Dany and the men, like with the men the ko's became khal's ( and is a khas a smaller group within the bigger group? ) so can Dany's ko's or bloodriders become khals if they don't follow her to the night lands? These quotes are from AGOT...

a khas is a smaller group that exists within a khalasar.

a kho is a khal's captain. There may be more than one khos (obviously) within the khalasar.

As far as I'm aware of, a kho is not necessarily a bloodrider of the khal.

[Lykos]

@Elaena Targaryen

This is speculation, but in german we have the word "Leibgarde" which is translated as life guard, but I think the old household troups or the westerossi Kings guard, would be an equivalent for khas. So the khas would be a small elite troup led by the bloodriders and kos. It is confusing though, because I was shure the kos of a Khalesei are called kha.

ETA: Maybe I mistook Dany´s lifeguard, her khas, as plural of kha and assumed it was the same as the Khal´s ko.

[Serie]

@Elaena Targaryen and @Lykos

maybe this will clear things out?

Khalasars are broken into groups, called khas, which are each led by one of the khal's captains, called khos.

source

[Elaena Targaryen]

Thank you very much Serie and Lykos! It was rather confusing to me anyway.

[Lykos]

@Serie

Thanks for the source . This makes sense, interesting that Dany had a kha to her own. And I usualy don´t completely trust the wiki.

[Morrigan]

If he's coronated, we don't see it. Robert dies and Joffrey's on the throne, wearing the crown when Ned goes in and get betrayed by the City Watch.

In that betrayal scene I recall Joffrey saying that the council should start preparing "all the necessary arrangements for my coronation", so I always just assumed that there was some coronation ceremony off-screen. Or he could have been referring to a future ceremony for when he came of age (that obviously never came to pass).

[DaveSumm]

Couple of questions:

After Jaime attacks Ned and flees to aid his fathers war effort, Robert is still king: despite there being a lot of Lannisters around, how is it that he issued no punishment for this whatsoever? I suppose he could have been pardoned once Joffrey was king, but would they not have chosen a new Lord Commander in the year or more that Jaime is absent? Then Jaime strolls back into Kings landing and starts issuing orders: nobody questions this and they all follow his orders.

Second, I always assumed the purple wedding got its name from the colour that Joffrey turned whilst choking, but having recently read that chapter he never does. Black is mentioned a few times. So where did this nickname come from?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

1. Robert didn't make any effort to punish Jaime because doing so would have angered Tywin, and Robert was too heavily in debt to the Lannisters to risk making them mad. By the time Jaime returned, Joffrey was king and the transgression was swept under the rug.

2. Purple is the color of royalty. It was a royal wedding, so I always assumed that's where the Purple Wedding name came from. But it's not referred to as such in the novels, whereas the Red Wedding is referred to in the story as the Red Wedding. ETA: Or as Teal'c mentioned, it's the color of the poison crystals.

[Teal'c]

How about the color of the poison? So purple the crystals look black.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

How about the color of the poison? So purple the crystals look black.

Actually, yeah, that's probably it.

[DaveSumm]

By the time Jaime returned, Joffrey was king and the transgression was swept under the rug.

He returns after the purple wedding, so in the entire time he was absent two king died. Seems very odd that such a massive disregard for his duties could not only be excused, but seemingly completely ignored.

[Corm]

Where did the idea of the Great Other come from?