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Ran

[Book Spoilers] Ep 202 Discussion

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What I didn't like... -Yara Greyjoy. I absolutely DO NOT mean the actress, she's great. I hate the name change to Yara. Asha Greyjoy and Osha are different names and hardly confusing, and does it even matter since Osha is leaving at the end of this season?... she is leaving I hope. And that they are not going to change it to keep her around. Also on a side-note. Is anyone else worried that Ramsay Bolton hasn't been cast yet, or the Reeds? These characters are vital to the stories for Bran and Theon, and in Ramsay's case much of ADwD and the following books. Episode 8 is titled The Prince of Winterfell, so hopefully we'll see "Reek" then, or hear about him beforehand. LotN

From what I have heard, Osha will be replacing the Reeds in Bran's storyline. I don't like it, because I grew very fond of the Reeds. But I do understand it was simply about $$. Osha has the "Old God" knowledge that the Reeds brought to Bran. She has experience north of the Wall that the Reeds did not. The only thing I worry about is who will take Rickon? My gut says Maester Luwin will take Rickon and Shaggydog on their path, with Osha, Hodor, and Bran going together.

Not sure if Ramsay has been cast yet, but he better be an uber psycho....

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If you recall episode 1 on the beach, after Stannis gets his fiery sword, he starts to charge off the beach. He stops, and turns back to retrieve his wife. ONLY his wife. There was no child with them. I do think Shireen has been scrapped, and I for one will not shed a tear for that "omission".

Too bad. No Shireen means no Patchface either. Would have been interesting to see the creepy jester I-know-I-know-oh-oh-oh his way to the screen.

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I haven’t read the whole thread yet. On my way to work so I apologize in advance if I'm repeating posts from before.

I've read all the books and I'm fine, ecstatic even, when the show deviates. As long as they stay with the spirit of the story and the world that George has made for us. In fact seeing ACoK word for word and scene by scene would make a dull watch for me.

That being said....the parts that made this episode lack luster for me was the LF/Ros scene. I get the point but don't care for the execution. Seems a bit ham fisted in making LF seem ruthless and all about LF only. I think they could of used that time to make the Theon/Yara scene more witty and funny. I kept thinking they really missed at comedy gold cutting that conversation to a forth of it's potential. There were a few more slow bulky spots but as a whole I did enjoy it. Loved the huge CGI Ghost and most everything dealing with beyond The Wall. The same for Arya and Gendry heading North. I think this season will really ramp up when Renly and Stannis start in on each other.

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Hated they killed Rhakaro, he was hot.

I figured they have to have a Dany scene each episode, Emilia Clarke has become an associated A-lister for the show the non readers are going to say 'where the hell is Dany?!".

Was it Rhakaro? I am still confused about that.

Really need a tragedy each episode? Yeah I know George like's grit, but even George does not punch up each chapter that way.

So that's odd.

Edited by boojam

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I don't know if anyone noticed, but they made Lommy's hands green. Thought that was cool.

Had to go back and check again. You're right! That was a brilliant touch. Guess it has to do with his old job as a dyer's apprentice (can't remember if the book ever touched on that). Still weirds me out how slavish this show is to some minute details, and how lenient it is to more obvious stuff.

Edited by FiveByeSeven

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From what I have heard, Osha will be replacing the Reeds in Bran's storyline.

WHOA!

That's a huge change, stings a little.

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In the last production shot from Ireland it shows Bran, Rickon, Osha, and Hodor leaving the ruins of Winterfell. I think Maester Luwin dies as it would be impractical for a person so old to make such a long journey. The Reeds may appear next season and take Rickon to Skagos whil Osha, Hodor and Bran go north. The reality is that Osha is popular with the TV audience and with the producers they can't write her out for infinity.

I still don't know if there will be a Reek . . . Ramsay may be left out completely.

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I hated the actress playing Yara/Asha. She had the right look, but she was a bad actress. She sounded flat and false.

I felt the opposite, wrong look but great acting . .

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Can I just say...I fell asleep watching this episode about 30 minutes in, and woke up with about 10 seconds left. In my groggy, partially-seeing state, I thought it was Mormont that whacked Jon (!). I was trying to figure out WTF was going on in my head all night. Finally watched it again this morning. :)

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I think that Jon's unconsciousness after being knocked out is when we will se his first warging into ghost

i don't get it..why wouldn't Craster just kill him ? it doesn't make any sense

pretty silly change, this one..

Seeing Jon getting ko'ed by Caster, was thinking...

Will they skip Half-hand and Jon's supposed betrayl and start his Wildling adventure now?

Maybe the Fist of the First Men is replaced by an attack on Craster's Keep.

It's one way to condense the story.

this sounds nice, but half hand, is aòready casted and confirmed ;)

Edited by wyman's cook

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5) Varys -- I so loved his exchange with Tyrion. I like that the show is making threats more blatant, even if it makes the characters seem a bit more dim. The way Varys held the door shut with a finger after Tyrion used his whole hand was awesome. Plus they kept in the great ocean/fish/paddling analogy. He recognizes that Tyrion is a bigger threat than anyone else in King's Landing, so he is making it known that he is the top dog.

I am going to show my laziness again. I not going back over the novel to read this Varys - Tyrion conversation again.

Is it from CoK?

I just don't remember Tyrion accusing Varys of a threat? Thought they always got along?

I probably need correcting.

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Why did they change Asha Greyjoy's name to Yara? I can almost understand last season's change of Robert Arryn to Robin Arryn because they thought the audience couldn't figure out two characters with the same first name, but why change Asha???

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Also, what Melisandre whispered to Matthos was absolutely chilling:

"Death by fire is the purest form of death."

I've read the books, but that sinister foreshadowing has me dreading

Matthos's eventual demise on the Blackwater.

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I am going to show my laziness again. I not going back over the novel to read this Varys - Tyrion conversation again.

Is it from CoK?

I just don't remember Tyrion accusing Varys of a threat? Thought they always got along?

I probably need correcting.

In the book Tyrion finds Varys hanging out with Shae and recognizes the implicit threat in that (I know what you're doing, I know who Shae is, etc.). In the show they chose to make it more explicity, presumably so the point isn't missed.

As for complaints about Stannis/Mel - he's not about honor, he's about duty. He sleeps with Melisandre because it's his duty to win the war and claim the throne.

Edited by Ser Hippie

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Wow! I loved it! I don't even care about the changes, they don't bother me. First of all, Pyke looked amazing and exactly how I pictured it in my mind. The actor playing Balon was perfect. The scene between him and Theon was so convincing. My poor, son of a vicious whore Theon. He's such an asshole, but I can't help that he's one of my favorite characters. Alfie Allen plays Theon just right so you feel both embarrassed for him and want to punch him in the face at the same time. The actress playing Asha exceeded my expectations, I thought she owned it. She got the same swagger and confidence that makes her attractive like Theon has, imo, which fits them being brother and sister. So what, she's not model pretty, she looks like what an ironborn woman would look like, imo. She looks a little tough, hard, gritty, and she gives the impression of a woman who would be commanding her own men in an otherwise very sexist culture. She's a woman who earned her respect from the men including her cold and bitter father.

Damn, off to work here's a short list...

Like:

Arya/Gendry

Yoren and all the scenes with Hot Pie and Arya, Lommy can go away.

Cersei was on fire this episode

Tyrion and Janos - replacing Bywater with Bronn as commander of city watch was a good way to condense and eliminate a very minor character. Also more Bronn!

Salladhor - The actor did a fine job and he was very fun to watch. He had the right amount of flamboyance without being to cartoony. I loved his whole "I'm not going to rape her, I'm going to fuck her." and his "I can be very convincing" Hee.

Nice acting between Irri and Dany over Rakharro's death.

Love:

All things Theon, Greyjoy, and Pyke!

NW including, Dolorous Edd, Sam/Gilly, and Jon. Gilly is too cute and I love the Sam and Jon exchanges, Also Ghost is one magnificent beast.

Last, but not least... Jaqen! :drool: Hello, there gorgeous man. Even for the 1 minute of screen time he had, I already knew I am going to love him. He's got the charm, mystery, and danger that embodies Jaqen, I got all that from the one minute, yes I did. I lol'd at how he pronounced the last name, only because the way GRRM spelled it, it is pretty damn unpronounceable.

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Oh, yes, Conleth Hill remains absolutely perfect as Varys. He's a better Varys than Dinklage is Tyrion.

Odd thing to say, they both seem pitch perfect to me.

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I am going to show my laziness again. I not going back over the novel to read this Varys - Tyrion conversation again.

Is it from CoK?

I just don't remember Tyrion accusing Varys of a threat? Thought they always got along?

I probably need correcting.

Tyrion has an inner monologue/thinks , that Varys's visit was a hidden threat, a message to him, like " i know whta you're hiding and since you're hiding it, then i know it means much to you"

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I just do not understand all of the complaints about the changes from the book to the TV series. They are still capturing the spirit of this story absolutely magnificently. I am watching the show now with a bunch of non book readers , and they are loving it. This is far and away the best show on TV, and my all time favorite series.

If you want an example of a bad TV conversion of a fantasy book, go and read The Dresden Files by Jim Butcher. then, go watch the TV show. After this is done, go write a nice, long letter to D&D about how thankful you are about how wonderful they have been in their story telling.

With all of that said, I absolutely loved this episode. Arya being back was just the icing on the cake. I can't imagine a more perfect scene. I also loved, loved, loved the Baelish scene. Some of the best acting of the series so far. Balon was spot on perfect, and they took Gilly right out of my head and put her on screen.

We are watching greatness

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As for complaints about Stannis/Mel - he's not about honor, he's about duty. He sleeps with Melisandre because it's his duty to win the war and claim the throne.

As Colonel T. said in the movie "The Patriot", "It is such an ugly business doing one's duty but occasionally it can be a real pleasure." :cool4:

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