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[Book Spoilers] Ep 202 Discussion

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i didnt like the dynamics of the relationship between joffrey and cersei either, my guess is they are trying to make him more bad ass than he has ever been or will be, while making cercei a more likeable character early on...

I´m all for action/suspense oriented changes over the book (like yoren's scene and the nicking of arteries) but when they try to change the characters just for the sake of simplyfing them I just can´t stand

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You're welcome. I never did understand though why fans dubbed it the "Purple Wedding."

Joffrey's face was explicitly mentioned as having turned black. "The Black Wedding" should be more apt!

Purple because of the color of the stones in Sansa's hairnet/strangler crystals

Eta: my apologies - I see several other folks already answered this. :blushing:

Edited by the maid of woodlynne

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Except that Joffrey isn't capable, nor a "strong king." He's a brat and an idiot, and I'd really prefer to see the character that way.

His mother is the true power behind the throne, and I feel like she's coming dangerously close to being wasted in this young season. :(

You aren't getting my reference on a "strong king". He throws those words of wisdom at Tywin in ASOS. He appeared to be parroting someone. Tyrion and Cersei suspect Robert but many people have it was actually Littlefinger. Tywin wasn't impressed and sends him to bed like a child.

Of course Joffrey is a brat and an idiot but he's a dangerous one. He thinks that power is being able to do anything he wants to anyone. He has no clue about politics and the dangers. His mother in the books wasn't much better. She didn't become the real power behind the throne until book 4. Tyrion was the power in book 2 and Tywin was in book 3.

Cersei is different in the show, being smarter and not quite as ruthless.

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Can someone point out how in ACOK the extent of Mel & Stannis's relationship is implied besides the fact that she carries his banners and other stuff like killing Renly and....the othee guy at Storms' End (name escapes me)? I found him to be a very stern figure and not very sexual at all. In the book he does make a comment to Renly regarding his homosexuality, so I see that, but if someone can help me out on my question I'd appreciate it.

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Theory about Ros crying.

Robert visited Winterfell. We know what a horndog he is. He visited the winter village brothel.

He liked Ros, visited her in LF brothel.

Everyones commented on how heavy Ros looks.

Maybe Gendry (and Edric) aren't the only bastards left.

How about she was traumatized by watching an infant being snatched from her mothers breast and butchered like a dog? wow.

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Can someone please summarize the scene with Littlefinger and crying Ros - I'm totally lost. I have a hearing loss and even with headphones on and the sound cranked, I could not quite make out the entire convo since he whispered the entire thing. Ugh, frustrating! Who was the guy she was supposed to service and didn't? What's the story Littlefinger tells her about? I got the gist of it that she's really upset about the murder of the baby and LF is telling her about another woman (and that's the parts I couldn't hear right) -- would like hearing someone else's take on it.

She's traumatized by the baby-killing. Littlefingers acts like he's going to comfort her, putting his arm around her and whispering and such. But then he tells a story about a beautiful Lyseni whore he once bought who acted similarly depressed, and therefore couldn't get customers. "I hate bad investments...they haunt me," he tells Ros. Then he tells how he eventually sold this Lyseni to some Lord who wanted to "transform her", as a way of mitigating Littlefinger's losses. It was all a not-so-veiled threat to Ros: get your act together, youere here to make money, not cry and drive away customers.

What he meant by "transform" I don't even want to know. Sounded like some Qyburn shit

My take on it was that they were foreshadowing something that will be revealed later on.

Littlefinger said a rich man bought a sad whore. Who do we know that is rich and has a whore who has been "transformed"?

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Can someone point out how in ACOK the extent of Mel & Stannis's relationship is implied besides the fact that she carries his banners and other stuff like killing Renly and....the othee guy at Storms' End (name escapes me)? I found him to be a very stern figure and not very sexual at all. In the book he does make a comment to Renly regarding his homosexuality, so I see that, but if someone can help me out on my question I'd appreciate it.

I think Davos figures it out. He suspects that Mel and Stannis are having an affair. They do spend a lot of time behind close doors and since Mel is a witch and has a lot of control over Stannis, it's reasonable to assume they are having an affair. Plus, it would make sense for Stannis to try to produce a male heir. He doesn't seem intersted in his wife and while I got the strong sense he didn't particular care for sex, Mel changed his mind. A hot crazy chick will do that I suppose.

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In the last production shot from Ireland it shows Bran, Rickon, Osha, and Hodor leaving the ruins of Winterfell. I think Maester Luwin dies as it would be impractical for a person so old to make such a long journey. The Reeds may appear next season and take Rickon to Skagos whil Osha, Hodor and Bran go north. The reality is that Osha is popular with the TV audience and with the producers they can't write her out for infinity.

I still don't know if there will be a Reek . . . Ramsay may be left out completely.

Last scene shot does not necessarily mean last scene that airs. Scenes aren't shot in order.

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I think Davos figures it out. He suspects that Mel and Stannis are having an affair. They do spend a lot of time behind close doors and since Mel is a witch and has a lot of control over Stannis, it's reasonable to assume they are having an affair. Plus, it would make sense for Stannis to try to produce a male heir. He doesn't seem intersted in his wife and while I got the strong sense he didn't particular care for sex, Mel changed his mind. A hot crazy chick will do that I suppose.

Davos does more than figure it out, he is flat out told by Stannis what is going on. Probably because of how dense these books are, often people have trouble picking up on things that aren’t explicitly stated. In this world, it’s not like people are going to actually use the words “I’m fucking her”, but Stannis still comes out and admits it to Davos.

I’m at work, so I don’t have the exact passage, but when they talk about how Stannis has taken her into his room at nights, Davos asks him what is going on. Stannis says “She comforts me” Davos asks “in what way” and Stannis replies “In every way”.

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Can someone point out how in ACOK the extent of Mel & Stannis's relationship is implied besides the fact that she carries his banners and other stuff like killing Renly and....the othee guy at Storms' End (name escapes me)? I found him to be a very stern figure and not very sexual at all. In the book he does make a comment to Renly regarding his homosexuality, so I see that, but if someone can help me out on my question I'd appreciate it.

Well,

Under Storm's End she gives birth to a shadow that Davos recognizes...presumably Stannis. How did the shadow get into her womb? Pretty strong implication for sex

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This episode had great moments and weak moments:

GREAT

1. Ghost. OMG wow looks amazing. Exceeds my wildest expectations.

2. Pyke. Looks bloody phenomenal. Bigger than I expected, much more of a whole castle.

3. Sallador Saan - He was awesome. Not typical blonde Lyseni, but he seemed to have a summer islander vibe with is comments about the holiness of a woman's parts.

4. Lommy suggesting yield, Hot Pie talking about what makes a battle, Yoren, Arya and Gendry's scenes. I'm really liking this plot line. Jaqen was good too.

5. Tyrion and Cersei have great on screen chemistry.

WEAK

1. I thought Janos Slynt was balefully dull. He should have been louder, more obnoxious, and drunker IMO.

2. Littlefinger wiping the whore's mouth. I simply cannot defend this pointless, over the top, filth. I have never complaied about the sexing up of the show before, but that was just nasty. There was no need for it either. He could have wiped her without her being so messy, it would have accomplished the same thing. What, does she have no feeling in her face? WTF.

3. Didn't like Yara. Perhaps I am unfairly comparing her to my mental image of book Asha, but still.

4. Didn't like the sex scene between Mel and Stannis. I think the very last thing we needed at this point in establishing Stannis' hard as iron stubborn honor is a scene of him cracking and forsaking his honor, even if it might have happened.

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I think Davos figures it out. He suspects that Mel and Stannis are having an affair. They do spend a lot of time behind close doors and since Mel is a witch and has a lot of control over Stannis, it's reasonable to assume they are having an affair. Plus, it would make sense for Stannis to try to produce a male heir. He doesn't seem intersted in his wife and while I got the strong sense he didn't particular care for sex, Mel changed his mind. A hot crazy chick will do that I suppose.

I think I recall that now, since it's only briefly alluded to it's easy to forget those things in the rush of all the other styff happening surrounding Stannis. Thanks.

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Because Asha and Osha sound very much alike in the UK accents that they are using. Using standard IPA notation, we might well have these pairs:

  • Asha: U.S. /ˈæʃə/, U.K. /ˈɑːʃə/
  • Osha: U.S. /ˈɔːʃə/, U.K. /ˈɒːʃə/

Surely you can see that while the U.S. pronunciations are reasonably far apart, the U.K. pronunciations that they would necessarily be using are really rather similar. Yes, there are other U.K. possibilities, but those given above are the most likely ones, and it’s way too close — much much closer, say, than the cited counterexample of Arya and Yara.

Thank you for that explanation. It makes sense. I keep forgetting we are two countries separated by a common language.

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Finally!! Sigh, this outage problem is getting ridiculous...

My thoughts on post-Jon-knocking-out (involving youtube HBO featurettes and the trailer for next ep, so spoiler tagging):

Quorin is definitely in the series, he's in the "new characters of season 2" featurette, and considering his entire point in the books is to escort Jon to the wildlings then sacrifice himself to convince them Jon has turned cloak I imagine the same thing will happen in the show. In the trailer for the next episode it sounds like Craster is kicking them out, I think they'll leave the keep and Mormont will send Quorin, Jon and some redshirts off to infiltrate the others and Jon will separate from the others either the next episode or the one after.

One thing that's really starting to annoy me is the opening credits using the Wall and Vaes Dothrak for Jon and Dany when they aren't at those locations. I want a "The Haunted Forest" and "The Red Waste" and maybe even "The Kingsroad" for Arya.

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Plus, it would make sense for Stannis to try to produce a male heir.

This is purely an invention of TV, based on nothing from the books. And Stannis would have no interest in fathering a bastard, something he associated with Robert.

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*Good things:

- I think Lena’s portrayal of Cersei is awesome. She may be very different from the book Cersei, but Lena acts really good with her version. Her moments with Tyrion are so awesome to watch.

- loved the following interactions: Arya/Gendry, Loomy/Hot Pie, Davos/Sallador, Tyrion/Bronn, Sam/Gilly.

I really liked the iron islands, which is good since in the books they sort of bored me. But they really put a lot of detail into it, and the actor playing Balon is amazing! I also liked Sallador, he was really funny. Jaqen I think was also great. I pictured him like that in the books… okay, maybe not that hot! and Ghost was wonderful! About Stannis & Mel, I didn't mind it that much. It was a good scene, though I certainly had never imagined that Stannis would do that in the painted table- shows how much I know.

*Bad things:

- I think Davo’s son is a little bit annoying.

- The captain's daughter Theon is with... well, why do they show her instead of some important people? We know Theon is horny & a lady’s man in his way, so why show it yet again..?

- Ross & LF. It’s not that I dislike Ross. I don't, and I think that she was good in this episode with her face expressions as LF subtly threatened her, but she isn’t the only one who is unhappy with her situation. I hope that she now makes LF happy so we can see more of Brienne, Sansa, Sandor, Cat in the upcoming chapters...

- Bronn being made the commander of the gold cloaks. I love the actor and the character is really funny, but Tyrion does not trust him that much...

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Finally!! Sigh, this outage problem is getting ridiculous...

My thoughts on post-Jon-knocking-out (involving youtube HBO featurettes and the trailer for next ep, so spoiler tagging):

Quorin is definitely in the series, he's in the "new characters of season 2" featurette, and considering his entire point in the books is to escort Jon to the wildlings then sacrifice himself to convince them Jon has turned cloak I imagine the same thing will happen in the show. In the trailer for the next episode it sounds like Craster is kicking them out, I think they'll leave the keep and Mormont will send Quorin, Jon and some redshirts off to infiltrate the others and Jon will separate from the others either the next episode or the one after.

They're due to arrive at the Fist of the First Men in episode 5. I think he'll kill the Halfhand and go double-agent in episode 9; the finale will show him being doubted and generally treated like crap by Rattleshirt; and it will end with the third horn blowing to signal the Others attack on the Fist.

Edited by J.S. Crews

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Regarding the Fist of the First Men, it will definitely be in this season. In one of the maps that is on the interactive HBO GO version of this episode, the Fist is noted as being northwest of Craster's Keep.

That makes me think we will be seeing it soon.

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This is purely an invention of TV, based on nothing from the books. And Stannis would have no interest in fathering a bastard, something he associated with Robert.

Kings can legitimize bastards with a single signature.

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