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[Book Spoilers] Ep 202 Discussion

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Thank you! That's not quite what I meant, though. I know everyone thinks it's Rakharo... but based on the fact that Jorah saw what? A bit of hair and a ponytail? I just find it curious that in a show with so much gore/violence/etc, they shy from showing us his face.

Eh. I'm probably just making a big case from nothing.

I think the reason they dont show the face is because it is super expensive to make a replica fake head. Apparently GRRM wanted them to make one of him to put up on the spikes in the Sansa/Joffrey scene in season one, but was tolf they couldnt do any more exact replicas due to budget stuff. So, im guessing, that they had a bunch of prop severed heads, put a wig on it that looked lime Rakharos hair and didnt show the face. No need to screw up your budget for a minor character especially when you have a high budget episode like Blackwater.

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Yeah, Ros is not taking the Jeyne role. Either they'll do something else with it or they'll just introduce Jeyne, "Oh, yeah, she was in Winterfell and was Sansa's friend and just accept she was there." George has mentioned this sort of thing before, when talking about the Sopranos and the way suddenly some lieutenant of Tony's exists on the show and is a major player even though you've never seen him or even had him mentioned before. Just have to accept it.

But yeah, Ros is definitely not going to try and be passed off as Arya,

Ok , surely someone has mentioned this, D&D in the commentary for season on , DVD, point out Jeyne Poole at but is the

actress ever given credit, can't find her on IMDB.

There is a picture of her on the Wiki.

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Why do people keep calling the Stannis scene out of character? We all know he sleeps with Melisandre from the heavy, heavy implications in the books. So, what character did he go against? Stannis is a dutiful man bent on justice. He was reluctant to nail Melisandre in the show, but they cant put in 10 scenes of him turning her down before it actually happens. Without seeing that they did it the shadow baby scene becomes a bit confusing. It highlights Mels power over Stannis, which she has in the books.

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Ok , surely someone has mentioned this, D&D in the commentary for season on , DVD, point out Jeyne Poole at but is the

actress ever given credit, can't find her on IMDB.

There is a picture of her on the Wiki.

You only see her once at the Winterfell feast for the king. I dont think we see Jeyne in the series until we get to ADWD.

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You only see her once at the Winterfell feast for the king. I dont think we see Jeyne in the series until we get to ADWD.

Just my opinion, frankly the whole Jeyne Poole arc seems over elaborated to me, sure it's important to Theon's arc at the end of ADwD ,... tho that whole narrative could have been orchestrated without Jeyne, seems he was coming back to his senses anyway.

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Just my opinion, frankly the whole Jeyne Poole arc seems over elaborated to me, sure it's important to Theon's arc at the end of ADwD ,... tho that whole narrative could have been orchestrated without Jeyne, seems he was coming back to his senses anyway.

Well, the whole Jeyne Poole/Fake Arya has some more importance then only Theon his story arc. It is the whole reason Jon does what he does and the end of ADwD. But the producers have about 4 more years to come up with a plausible change of story.

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Stannis sleeping with Melisandre had to be shown. Not much of the audience would be able to deduce that Stannis slept with Melisandre by just seeing a shadow being spawned out of her.

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Well...I actually didn't imagine Asha as she is in the shows but overall i think her attitude is quite similar to the one described in the books.

I really didn't like neither Jon being knocked out by Craster at the end of episode nor Rakharo being killed. Maybe it is necessary to let the audience understand the other Khals are against Daenerys...but still.

Also too much space is given to Littlefinger. I know they have to make the audience aware of the fact that he's a really important and smart character, that he moves everything and everyone around him but this is shown just at the end of ASOS and in a AFFC, not before, not really I mean.

I don't know what you guys think about this, but seriously too much Littlefinger!

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I think the reason they dont show the face is because it is super expensive to make a replica fake head.

Had no idea that it's so expensive to make fake heads. But it makes sense to save every penny, if that's the case. Thank you!

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They're both women in their late twenties/early thirties, they're both dressed plainly, they both have some martial skill (Asha more than Osha). In a sea of 30+ different distinct characters, you don't think the average person might get them confused?

I honestly don't think so. It's like saying, that people will confuse Sansa with Margaery if they have the same name: both young and pretty, both dressed like a lady.

As I said before: Asha and Osha are not similar (different type of beauty) and even if someone, for example Theon will speak of Asha, careful viewer should have no problem with understanding who he's talking about. If he/she is not careful, well, probably is confused already with the story.

It's all goofy. Most of the viewers , right now, speak North American English (my nod to Canadians)... and lord viewers in Western Europe and Eastern Europe, how are they going get confused? One would think UK viewers are sophisticated enough to figure it out, the Irish and Scottish would get confused? I still want to hear George asked the question... he approve? Maybe he so happy with getting 99.99 percent of it right he looks the other way?

My native language is Polish and here pronunciation Asha/Osha is very similar. But come on we are not stupid/deaf and it's not like this is the only pair of words that sounds alike ;)

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As I said before: Asha and Osha are not similar (different type of beauty) and even if someone, for example Theon will speak of Asha, careful viewer should have no problem with understanding who he's talking about. If he/she is not careful, well, probably is confused already with the story.

From the various trailers we've seen, it seems that Theon will be seduced by Osha later in Winterfell. Maybe that is where it might get confusing when he calls her Osha. If he had been speaking of Asha previously as his sister..... Just what came to my mind...

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I honestly don't think so. It's like saying, that people will confuse Sansa with Margaery if they have the same name: both young and pretty, both dressed like a lady.

Ok, then let me say that: If Sansa and Margaery had the same name (or they had the names Sansa and Sonsa), a lot of people would get confused. Not you, not me, but a lot of normal people who don't have very good memories, and/or haven't read the books would get them mixed up.

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People confuse Asha with Osha!

As someone noted they never appear in the same scene together across the 5 novels, so far.

And even if they did they have a totally different visual appearance.

I don't think it's D&D , someone at HBO has the auditory discriminatory neurons of a blind cave fish.

I have a general rule that I follow... If I've never ever done something, and someone else has years of experience in that field, then I assume that, even if I don't understand why it's been done, that the expert has a good reason.

I mean... why do calculators have + signs on them? Who can't add numbers in their heads? Why would anyone need a device to help them add things?

Why do toothpicks have instructions on the box? Who could possibly be so dumb as to not understand what a toothpick is for?

Why did Sony invent a form of DRM that can be eliminated with a magic marker? What possible person thought that was a good idea?

The fact is, that these things were not done in a vacuum. They didn't magically appear one day. Someone made a specific effort to pursue a strategy and implement a change. Just because I don't understand the reason, doesn't mean the reason is stupid. It is far, far more likely that I'm simply ignorant of the reason. If I were to educate myself, and become an expert in the field, then, perhaps, I can render an educated assessment of the intelligence (or lack thereof) of the decision and the person making the decision.

Until that point, I continue to work under the assumption that I am lacking data. Because me assuming that someone has the 'auditory discriminatory neurons of a blind cave fish' because they made a decision that I don't understand approaches the heights of callow arrogance.

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Perhaps my experience of episode 2 was coloured by the fact that I was in a pub with 30 other fans and sat three feet away from George RR Martin, but I think I'd still think this was a brilliant episode had I been on my own at home.

So many of the scenes used dialogue straight out of the book and everything looked great, especially Pyke. I definitely prefer it when some characters are left out so the show can put a greater focus on the storylines they are following that week. It works so much better. I was surprised there was no Renly this week but I'm sure there will be a big chunk of his story in episode 3.

The only thing I didn't really like was the whole Yara/Asha thing but we knew about that long ago and it's already been argued to death. The gratuitous sex was gratuitous but is fast becoming the norm for this show. I did not mind the Ros/Littlefinger scene this week to be honest because we saw a different side to her character which felt like the right choice for her, although I do think it's a little incongruous with the previous episode where she appeared to have become the madam of the brothel and now she is back to being just another whore.

I think making Bronn the captain of the goldcloaks is actually a really interesting change. I was surprised because I thought that Jacelyn Bywater had been cast but perhaps I am mistaken. It does make me wonder if they are going to keep Bronn around instead of having him disappear off to Stokeworth, but he's such a great character I don't think I'd mind if they do go that way. Also I'm glad they kept in the line about how much since that tells you everything you ever need to know about Bronn.

The end of the episode was so awesome I can't believe that scene wasn't in the book. The absence of the Others in the second book has always been a strange choice and for the TV show we definitely needed that reminder that the White Walkers are still out there. I got chills when I heard the ice cracking language echoing through the trees and the visual of the White Walker picking up the baby and walking away was creepy and beautiful. It will be interesting to see how they handle Jon Snow waking up next week. Will they have already left Craster's when he awakes in a litter or will he awake in the midst of Craster and Mormont arguing. If I had one complaint about it I'd say the fact that they had not established that there was a newborn baby son in the household when the Night's Watch arrived made it seem like the baby came out of nowhere. Just one line about a pregnant daughter about to give birth or Gilly saying something about her sister giving birth to a son yesterday might have helped with that. And yes Ghost looked awesome.

Overall it really was a fantastic episode, a great improvement on the first episode which I thought was awkward and had some poorly thought out ideas. I know George liked it and was happy to see so many fans enjoying it in person. He had already seen the first two episodes before they aired so we did not get to see any reaction from him as he watched but George has not seen any of the other episodes yet. I'm not sure if he will be able to watch episode 3 when he is in Portugal next week but if anyone finds him in a bar watching it you may get to see his reaction, although I suspect he may wait till he gets back home before watching it.

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Ros, sucks. When are they killing her off? What a waste of time. Why do we need to know about this character? Stop giving her air time. Who did this actress fuck to get on the show?

How is Stannis out of character? People forget that in the books we see Stannis through Davos' POV, not Stannis's own POV. We will never be able to know what exactly Stannis feel or think, just what Davos thinks of him. You are reading Davos' guesses and perceptions. Just like any 2nd hand information, it may or may not be accurate.

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Ros, sucks. When are they killing her off? What a waste of time. Why do we need to know about this character? Stop giving her air time. Who did this actress fuck to get on the show?

How is Stannis out of character? People forget that in the books we see Stannis through Davos' POV, not Stannis's own POV. We will never be able to know what exactly Stannis feel or think, just what Davos thinks of him. You are reading Davos' guesses and perceptions. Just like any 2nd hand information, it may or may not be accurate.

Not to mention Davos basically worships Stannis, so he's not exactly impartial.

Show!Stannis has been pretty good so far.

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The end of the episode was so awesome I can't believe that scene wasn't in the book. The absence of the Others in the second book has always been a strange choice and for the TV show we definitely needed that reminder that the White Walkers are still out there. I got chills when I heard the ice cracking language echoing through the trees and the visual of the White Walker picking up the baby and walking away was creepy and beautiful.

Slightly off-topic terminology check: does 'White Walkers' encompass both Others and Wights, or does it only refer to one or the other?

And yes, I'm astonished that anyone would complain about this because it wasn't in the book. We got to see an Other for Gods sake.

I enjoyed the episode, you could still tell that the task of setting up new characters and plots was paramount, but at this rate I think they'll really be going full steam by next week. I'm still disappointed that we haven't seen a scene where only Davos and Stannis are present, to me this is the heart of that whole subplot: Davos walking that narrow line between truth and respect. I really would have loved it if Stannis had read the letter back to Davos alone, so Davos could raise his objection to the 'light of the lord' section (providing the real meat of their relationship and revealing his feelings about Mel at the same time).

I have no problem with Ros, but I am a little disappointed with the crying scene simply because it portrays Littlefinger as just plain nasty. I wouldn't say book LF is nasty, he's just incredibly driven and ambitious. I can't see book LF sacrificing someone simply to make good on one investment (although he probably would for the prospect of long-term multi investments, or the potential to climb yet higher in the game of thrones).

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I will never understand why they make such a big deal out of "LIttlefinger owns brothels" in the series and why he has to be around his employees all the time.

But now the things I liked:

Arya/Gendry

Yoren

Tyrion/Varys

Ghost

And I don't really care about the Iron Islands chapters in the books, but I like the portrayal of Balon Greyjoy here.

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