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[Book Spoilers] Ep 202 Discussion

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Just a few quick thoughts of mine:

-The guy playing Balon is amazing; incredible gravitas on screen. And everything about Pyke and the Iron Islands was spot on to how I picture it in my head. Great.

-The Arya/Gendry scene was really fun

-All of Tyrion's scenes were great. I hate Slynt, as any sensible man would, and it's great to watch Tyrion punk him. I think PD is doing an even better job this season in the early going.

-Dillane is just not working as Stannis for me thus far. Hopefully that changes.

And now for my extremely sophomoric comment:

-Any worries that CVH wasn't hot enough or sultry enough to be Mel have been laid to rest.

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Agreed on the Reeds. Bran and the Reeds was one of my Favorite storylines and to not have it makes me sad.

Ok, I gonna just say it. I am re-reading ASoS ,..., the Reeds and Bran's storyline in that book , except for a little suspense stuff is about as boring as Tom Bombadil in LTOR. If had of been Tolkien I would have killed him off!

So there.

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Was one of the weakest episodes in the series thus far, imo. Not because of the changes, I don't care about that really, its just that it felt disjointed and dragged on too much in the middle. Also, and I say this for the first time ever, there was far too much sex. I was fine with Stannis/Mel scene (although, correct me if I'm wrong, this is a change from the books, yes? I thought it was never clear if Stannis had an affair or was seduced while asleep) but the Theon/Captain's daughter scene dragged on even worse than it did on the page and the brothel scene was completely unnecessary. I would much rather have preferred either another Arya scene, or some checking in with a character not in the episode; maybe show Joffrey being randomly cruel and stupid.

I agree with everything you said. I could have lived without having seen Theon Greyjoy finger his sister on the horse, he is a loser.

Sex scenes in the brothel were a complete unnecessary soft porn material, and while we're at it - producers, can you throw in some athletic looking young men in here and show their asses? Women watch this show too, you know.

When Stannis and Melisandre were having sex, I couldn't stop thinking about how those little figurines on the table must have poked Melisandre's back. Anyone else?

Rakharo's death - I knew it was coming, but man oh man. The first time I saw him in Episode 3 of the first series, my jaw dropped and I was like who IS this?? where, what, how? saliva all over the place. But seriously, he was one of the best characters in the show.

Edited by ScientistGirl26

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No, as fake Arya. Jeyne Poole's role.

This would be brilliant, especially considering who she would end up being reunited with eventually... Though unfortunately, and I know that horse has already been flogged here.. the age thing wouldn't work. I know I'm late commenting on this, my bad :)

Edited by Abifer

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I hadn't read the whole thread so I don't know if someone mentioned it before but I liked the part when Tyrion read the letter from Mormont and the small council just laughed and left the room. I wonder how many of them will live to rue this.

I did like that scene - while I did miss Tyrion mocking Thorne, I thought they did a good job of tying together the knowledge of the snarks & grumpkins being shared with the south and it being dismissed.

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When Stannis and Melisandre were having sex, I couldn't stop thinking about how those little figurines on the table must have poked Melisandre's back. Anyone else?

That's all I could think as well. "That table looks like the last place I'd chose to have sex"

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That freaked me out, too. It was way more graphic than Cersie and Jamie in the tower. I know she wanted to trick Theon, but this makes Asha look like she wants her kid brother, as she knew who he was the whole time.

I agree. HBO completely botched that scene, IMO. In the book, Asha is teasing Theon but is also careful to move his hands away and not let him take things too far. Then, once she reveals her true identity, she makes it crystal clear that she was just trying to embarass Theon. She outright belittles Theon for the things that he did and said. That was one of my favorite scenes from the entire series; I laughed out loud when I read it.

The show had none of that nuance. They didn't even have "Yara" try to resist Theon. It merely looked like she let her brother finger her. They could have taken 30 seconds from some other scene to elaborate on this to help non-readers understand the situation. Maybe they could have cut the beginning of the brothel scene (but then we'd have to lose the oh so important "wiping of the whore's mouth", and we can't lose that!), or maybe the Stannis sex scene. As it is, it just looks like another intentional incest moment.

I'm not enjoying Season 2 as much as I did Season 1. I think that the story has already become too disparate for HBO to capture it properly. It feels disjointed. Everyone gets superficial treatment, things are magnified or rushed to an extent that it distorts the charaterization, and you're left with odd scenes like the Cersei-Littlefinger scene in episode 1, the Theon-Yara groping, and the Stannis sex that aren't really explained or don't seem to appropriately capture the spirit of the characters. That's a bad sign, considering how tight the narrative is in ACoK in comparison with the later books in the series. I don't see how HBO can do ADWD.

Edited by Hedge Lawyer

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I fully agree with the complaint that the sex is over the top.

It is not even necessary.

What do the whore scenes add to the story? The Stannis/Mellisandre scene is justifiable and adds to the atmosphere and builds Melisandre's character as a seductive enchantress, but the repetitive Theon sex scenes - that guy must have had more sex in the series thus far than he has in real life - and the whorehouse scenes are frankly off-putting.

Especially since I'm trying to introduce my wife to the series, and she has stated openly that she loves it, but is put off by the semi-pornographic parts that add nothing to the story.

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I really never figured that people who read ASOIAF are actually such prudes when it comes to seeing nudity on screen when they read about rape/murder/etc.....

The sex scenes are used tactfully:

1. Scene with Ros in Episode 1 explains that she has a form of management position in the brothel. Most likely to combine her in with the role that Alayaya plays for Tyrion. Also acts as a segway for purging Roberts bastards. People would be like "WTF why are they all of a sudden killing babies and shit?" if they didn't have that segway to it.

2. The sex scene with the captains daughter is in the books and serves to portray Theon thinking that when he returns home he will be received as a hero and the rightful heir to Pyke.

3. The Asha/Yara scene, while I admit they got it a little wrong, still serves its purpose. Lets not get too disturbed by the fact that Theon touches her Vag, shes squeezing his dick like its going outta style in the books.

4. Stannis and Mel doin' it serves the purpose of explaining the shadow babies that are to come. The general population will not have read the books and have the insight and knowledge to know what is going on. Without this being explicitly shown, you would end up having a huge WTF feeling from the general population. Also, its heavily implied/drilled into our heads that this happens in the books (although off screen).

5. The LF/Ros scene in episode 2 is the only scene that really didn't need to be there.

In total, the sex scenes in the show represent MAYBE 6-7 minutes of screen time COMBINED. This isn't very much time, its not like they would be able to tell an in depth story or make some character arc more spectacular. So many people have their too far in the clouds to understand this.

Edited by gramblor

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I fully agree with the complaint that the sex is over the top.

It is not even necessary.

What do the whore scenes add to the story? The Stannis/Mellisandre scene is justifiable and adds to the atmosphere and builds Melisandre's character as a seductive enchantress, but the repetitive Theon sex scenes - that guy must have had more sex in the series thus far than he has in real life - and the whorehouse scenes are frankly off-putting.

Especially since I'm trying to introduce my wife to the series, and she has stated openly that she loves it, but is put off by the semi-pornographic parts that add nothing to the story.

Yes! Thank you! Why did we need to see Theon banging some rando in the bowels of a ship?

Now please people, don't snap on me and correct me if I'm wrong because I'm only on my 2nd read-through of the books, but the only times I remember Theon in a remotely sexual situation are when he first sees Asha and she quite politely shuts him down, and in ADWD when Ramsay forces him on Jeyne/Fake Arya. I feel bad for Alfie Allen because he feel like sex scenes are all he does!

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Yes! Thank you! Why did we need to see Theon banging some rando in the bowels of a ship?

Now please people, don't snap on me and correct me if I'm wrong because I'm only on my 2nd read-through of the books, but the only times I remember Theon in a remotely sexual situation are when he first sees Asha and she quite politely shuts him down, and in ADWD when Ramsay forces him on Jeyne/Fake Arya. I feel bad for Alfie Allen because he feel like sex scenes are all he does!

you must not have read the books very carefully because Theon and the captains daughter is definitely in there

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you must not have read the books very carefully because Theon and the captains daughter is definitely in there

Again, like I just said...I'm only on my 2nd read of the books. Halfway through AGOT to be specific. The series is very long and complicated. It's near impossible to remember everything after only reading each book once.

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Again, like I just said...I'm only on my 2nd read of the books. Halfway through AGOT to be specific. The series is very long and complicated. It's near impossible to remember everything after only reading each book once.

The initial post wasn't written to be sarcastic or angry, it seemed as though when you said 2nd read through of the book you were referring to ACoK which is why I made my comment, my apologies.

Edited by gramblor

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That freaked me out, too. It was way more graphic than Cersie and Jamie in the tower. I know she wanted to trick Theon, but this makes Asha look like she wants her kid brother, as she knew who he was the whole time.

She squeezed his package numerous times in the book, even once at a feast after she'd revealed she was his sister. I fail to see the difference.

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I really never figured that people who read ASOIAF are actually such prudes when it comes to seeing nudity on screen when they read about rape/murder/etc.....

The sex scenes are used tactfully:

1. Scene with Ros in Episode 1 explains that she has a form of management position in the brothel. Most likely to combine her in with the role that Alayaya plays for Tyrion. Also acts as a segway for purging Roberts bastards. People would be like "WTF why are they all of a sudden killing babies and shit?" if they didn't have that segway to it.

2. The sex scene with the captains daughter is in the books and serves to portray Theon thinking that when he returns home he will be received as a hero and the rightful heir to Pyke.

3. The Asha/Yara scene, while I admit they got it a little wrong, still serves its purpose. Lets not get too disturbed by the fact that Theon touches her Vag, shes squeezing his dick like its going outta style in the books.

4. Stannis and Mel doin' it serves the purpose of explaining the shadow babies that are to come. The general population will not have read the books and have the insight and knowledge to know what is going on. Without this being explicitly shown, you would end up having a huge WTF feeling from the general population. Also, its heavily implied/drilled into our heads that this happens in the books (although off screen).

5. The LF/Ros scene in episode 2 is the only scene that really didn't need to be there.

In total, the sex scenes in the show represent MAYBE 6-7 minutes of screen time COMBINED. This isn't very much time, its not like they would be able to tell an in depth story or make some character arc more spectacular. So many people have their too far in the clouds to understand this.

Here, here. Well said.

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Yes! Thank you! Why did we need to see Theon banging some rando in the bowels of a ship?

As others pointed out, that was in the book. He led her on the entire trip, used her for her body, and then abandoned her to her fate. It was used to show Theon shallowness and lack of character. I actually thought that that scene was well done on the show.

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She squeezed his package numerous times in the book, even once at a feast after she'd revealed she was his sister. I fail to see the difference.

In the book, the squeezing was clearly in the context of Asha mocking Theon. Besides, she was squeezing in the book. Theon was doing far more than squeeing or quickly grabbing Yara on the show. He was full on fingering her. It was not equivalent to Asha's squeezing- rather, it would be like if Asha was j*cking him off in the book. It went a level farther on the show than in the book, and it was made worse because it was basically stripped from the context.

The show turned a funny scene of overconfident, somehwat delusional Theon being humiliated by his crafty sister into another creepy incest scene. Yara looked like she wanted sexual gratification from Theon despite knowing that he was her brother. That completely misses the point of the scene in the book. HBO botched the scene. I don't remember many (if any) scenes from Season 1 that I thought were poorly done. I can think of several poorly done scenes from Season 2 and we're only two episodes in.

Edited by Hedge Lawyer

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Thanks for setting people straight JS Crews. Perhaps people who want to complain about changes from the books should actually recall the books correctly first.

And for the prudes, maybe we can get the writers to produce alternate versions of the sex scenes where the characters eat tea and crumpets and wear Victorian outfits.

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Yes! Thank you! Why did we need to see Theon banging some rando in the bowels of a ship?

Except for Theon's first sight of Pyke, I was guessing that D&D would skip that scene to get on with the Theon/Asha encounter, which they shortened greatly.

That was a real waste of time, Theon won't even see that character again, Asha's character was developed in her interaction with her brother, good theatrical fodder, so that seemed a fumble for D&D.

Edited by boojam

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Meanwhile, she spends 2 chapters squeezing his cock, at least once after revealing who she is.

I guess you are talking Asha here?

My take was that Asha could turn it on or off with men just to show who was boss.

With Theon it seemed , since she knew who he was, she was probing him (so to speak) more for psychological info for herself and well as her father.

She had him figured out by the time they got to Pyke.

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