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[Book Spoilers] Ep 202 Discussion

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Okay my thoughts:

1. was surprised at the change w/Joffrey, and doesn't make sense s/l-wise. That's typical Cersei.

2. Rahkaro dying....WTF, he doesn't die in ACOK. I felt it was unnecessary. Where's he not as important as Jorah, ut was a surprise.

3. I was really looking forward to the scene where Arya kicks Hot Pie's ass w/her wooden sword, missed that.

4. LOVED Ghost.....OMG that was so cool. I'm loving the direwolves this season,

5. Like Gendry, think they portray him well.

6. Mel & Stannis, didn't have a problem w/it but it wasn't in the book and Stannis was never depicted as very sexual IMO. As another said it's like Renly & Loras, a scene we never saw.

7. Oh almost forgot....the scene w/Janos seemed rushed and I didn't feel the same energy I did in the book. I mean Tyrion seemed like he was happy but...idk was off to me. and Bronn as Commander of the City Watch? That could work.

8. I liked Jon's scenes.

Despite some gripes I did enjoy it & like it isn't exactly the same.

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The way they are focusing on Ros, I think that Ros will be the one who will be forced to marry Ramsay in the show as fake Arya.

No. If they do this then I will join the Ros haters. Why do people think this will happen? Ros is a woman and Arya a girl, Esme Bianco is literally twice as old as Maisie Williams (just checked), no one in the show should be fooled by that switch.

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No, as fake Arya. Jeyne Poole's role.

While everyone in the books closes their eyes and go 'It's Arya Aray Arya!' I can't see them doing the same for Ros. The red hair is just too much of a stretch.

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I thought it was book-confirmed that he gave them to the Others? I don't really do any theorising with asoiaf (hell I only heard of R+L=J about a month ago...) but I was always under the impression that that was what happened, I'll have to find the bit in the books.

It's clear in the books:

“She used to say that there were wildlings who would lay with the Others to birth half-human children.”

“Hearth tales. Does Craster seem less than human to you?”

In half a hundred ways. “He gives his sons to the wood.”

A long silence. Then: “Yes.” And “Yes,” the raven muttered, strutting. “Yes, yes, yes.”

“You knew?”

“Smallwood told me. Long ago. All the rangers know, though few will talk of it.”

“Did my uncle know?”

“All the rangers,” Mormont repeated. “You think I ought to stop him. Kill him if need be.” The Old Bear sighed. “Were it only that he wished to rid himself of some mouths, I’d gladly send Yoren or Conwys to collect the boys. We could raise them to the black and the Watch would be that much the stronger. But the wildlings serve crueler gods than you or I. These boys are Craster’s offerings. His prayers, if you will.”

His wives must offer different prayers, Jon thought.

“How is it you came to know this?” the Old Bear asked him. “From one of Craster’s wives?”

“Yes, my lord,” Jon confessed. “I would sooner not tell you which. She was frightened and wanted help.”

“The wide world is full of people wanting help, Jon. Would that some could find the courage to help themselves. Craster sprawls in his loft even now, stinking of wine and lost to sense. On his board below lies a sharp new axe. Were it me, I’d name it ‘Answered Prayer’ and make an end.”

Yes. Jon thought of Gilly. She and her sisters. They were nineteen, and Craster was one, but…

“Yet it would be an ill day for us if Craster died. Your uncle could tell you of the times Craster’s Keep made the difference between life and death for our rangers.”

Edited by Magjee

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While everyone in the books closes their eyes and go 'It's Arya Aray Arya!' I can't see them doing the same for Ros. The red hair is just too much of a stretch.

No. If they do this then I will join the Ros haters. Why do people think this will happen? Ros is a woman and Arya a girl, Esme Bianco is literally twice as old as Maisie Williams (just checked), no one in the show should be fooled by that switch.

Yeah, after rethinking it, I think you two are right.

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So, is everyone else still pretty sure Jon isn't dead and is just knocked out?

Well, in this episode, he did not die -- ok, MAYBE lose consciousness -- from several stab wounds. Jon simply took a clubbing to the head. Nothing to get worked up about ;)

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Really good episode, much better than last week's IMO. I liked pretty much everything, even the Ros scene was decent, and somewhat necessary for non-readers to get what a ruthless bastard Littlefinger is. I guess I am ove of the few who liked Asha/Yara. Davos and Saan were good and the Stannis scenes worked better this time. The Yoren/Arya/Gendry scenes were really well done. Oh, and I love that Craster owned Jon again. ;)

The way they are focusing on Ros, I think that Ros will be the one who will be forced to marry Ramsay in the show as fake Arya.

How the hell would this happen? The ages don't match at all. Nobody at all would be fooled which makes it pointless.

Edited by David Selig

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It's clear in the books:

“She used to say that there were wildlings who would lay with the Others to birth half-human children.”

“Hearth tales. Does Craster seem less than human to you?”

In half a hundred ways. “He gives his sons to the wood.”

A long silence. Then: “Yes.” And “Yes,” the raven muttered, strutting. “Yes, yes, yes.”

“You knew?”

“Smallwood told me. Long ago. All the rangers know, though few will talk of it.”

“Did my uncle know?”

“All the rangers,” Mormont repeated. “You think I ought to stop him. Kill him if need be.” The Old Bear sighed. “Were it only that he wished to rid himself of some mouths, I’d gladly send Yoren or Conwys to collect the boys. We could raise them to the black and the Watch would be that much the stronger. But the wildlings serve crueler gods than you or I. These boys are Craster’s offerings. His prayers, if you will.”

His wives must offer different prayers, Jon thought.

“How is it you came to know this?” the Old Bear asked him. “From one of Craster’s wives?”

“Yes, my lord,” Jon confessed. “I would sooner not tell you which. She was frightened and wanted help.”

“The wide world is full of people wanting help, Jon. Would that some could find the courage to help themselves. Craster sprawls in his loft even now, stinking of wine and lost to sense. On his board below lies a sharp new axe. Were it me, I’d name it ‘Answered Prayer’ and make an end.”

Yes. Jon thought of Gilly. She and her sisters. They were nineteen, and Craster was one, but…

“Yet it would be an ill day for us if Craster died. Your uncle could tell you of the times Craster’s Keep made the difference between life and death for our rangers.”

(only spoiler tagged because it's a long post)

Yeah, I posted an even clearer scene earlier (its on the previous page of this thread).

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A few quick points:

A couple people mentioned they were freaked out by theon fingering Yara. That didn't happen. He was just rubbing low on her stomach, he was never fingering her.

Second, a bunch of people said stannis sexing Mel was only hinted at in the books. Again, not true. It was clearly revealed in the books that they were having sex.

Anyway, I thought the episode was good. A lot better than last weeks episode. Arya's bit was the best part, IMO. I also really enjoyed Theon's.

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I did not remember the quote about the Others from CofK....it is so hard to remember everything. I will always Asha Greyjoy, Asha...it was stupid to change her name.

Plus she had thick dark hair she wore in a long braid down her back. So she became one of my fave characters...but on the show? She had better be more badass.

I liked the friendship between Arya and Gendry. In the book I felt he had a little crush on her..but isn't she like 10 in the book and Gendry like 14 or something? Here, I think she is almost 12....but I love Arya.

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Was Littlefinger spying on someone having sex, or was he spying on someone spying on someone who was having sex?

Both... at first the first one, then the second one. I love how creepy and brooding the series is making Littlefinger look. This is why I like the Ros addition to the show, it gave us a backstory to Theon in season 1 and Littlefinger in season 2

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I liked the friendship between Arya and Gendry. In the book I felt he had a little crush on her..but isn't she like 10 in the book and Gendry like 14 or something? Here, I think she is almost 12....but I love Arya.

Yeah, I felt like GRRM was building up to a cute love thing between them until they went their separate ways. That made me sad, I hope they meet again.

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Book Joffrey would never do that. It would be like Joffrey admitting to himself that he isn't Robert's son, or is there any other reason to order the killing of Robert's bastards?

I think TV Joffrey may suspect, deep down, that he's not Robert's son. This version is at least, a bit smarter.

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A couple people mentioned they were freaked out by theon fingering Yara. That didn't happen. He was just rubbing low on her stomach, he was never fingering her.

Yet, in the book, she squeezed his package, like, 4 times, and nobody is saying anything about that.

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RAKHARO WTF

JON WTF

STANNIS HYPERSEXUALISED WTF

this series is going to change quite a bit of the story. OTOH, i don't see how they can tell it all in just 10 episodes without significant editing, so i'll just have to get used to it; a bit sad, though, season 1 was more faithful to the story.

i liked the acting and the theme of the ros scene, actually, although i agree that screen time is wasted on this non-character. but perhaps she's somehow going to play a bigger role in the future?

but to not just simply point out the bad stuff, here's what i liked most:

- Gendry is <3, as is Gilly (however brief her appearance). Skins was a very good series, before it turned boring (after season 2), and I'm glad those two actors made it to an HBO production.

- Arya ~ nuff said

- Varys. Just. fucking. awesome.

- Balon. Wow, what an appearance.

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I think TV Joffrey may suspect, deep down, that he's not Robert's son. This version is at least, a bit smarter.

Yeah TV Joffrey is older and somewhat less naive than book Joffrey and it does come of as believable. I don't have a problem with that change, I also liked how they made us wonder who was behind it, until of course it was revealed

Edited by Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren

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